BRIAR AGE AND GRAIN

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North Pole piper

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 23, 2021
152
329
Rural, Manitoba Canada.
I was always under the impression that older briar has more grain(growth rings), but was told recently that it’s harder to get a lot of grain out of older briar because it’s more dense and typically doesn’t show grain well. So does that mean younger briar has a tendency to show better grain? I’m confused?
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
18,499
33,639
47
Central PA a.k.a. State College
I was always under the impression that older briar has more grain(growth rings), but was told recently that it’s harder to get a lot of grain out of older briar because it’s more dense and typically doesn’t show grain well. So does that mean younger briar has a tendency to show better grain? I’m confused?
I would file this under the who says? If it's just some random person I'd take a few grains of salt with it. If it's someone that has years of experience making pipes or selling briar I'd hold off on the salt.
 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,726
3,089
I don't think in those terms when I pick a block for grain. I've never ever picked up a block and seen nice grain and thought "Wow, that's a really young block."

Grain as we talk about it is the xylem of the plant, and in the heart of the burl, it's twisty random stuff. Out at the edge it's usually much more linear.

I've seen briar with growth rings almost 1/4" apart, and I've seen briar with growth rings stacked like plates, so dense it couldn't be sandblasted with any detail. The corresponding "grain" running the other way is usually but not always finer in the tight ringed burls, and my assumption is that they grew slower, in less fertile conditions.

Really old briar is uniformally brown, it's really hard to get the grain to "pop" like newer wood, and certain regions produce somewhat less stripey briar than others. The Italian stuff tends to be really striated, some of the Spanish. Greek in general less so, and again I put this down to growing conditions.

I've had blocks in my shop with 100 growth rings, and they were packed tight, and the grain was also super fine. But that's not an age thing - at 50 years, that briar was just as good, only, smaller.

Mostly, when you pick up a real old pipe, and the grain is just sucky or non-existent, it's because the pipe was cut from an ebauchon with no regard at all to grain quality or orientation. I don't think the briar was older or younger per se than what is cut now.
 
Aug 1, 2012
5,004
5,909
USA
As one of the few here who has actually done a fair bit of woodworking and luthiery, I'll say that age has pretty much nothing to do with grain. It primarily comes from environmental factors and the skill of the mill/cutter to bring out the grain that is available. If you mill wood in the proper way, it will come out with proper figured, flamed, straight, or, in the case of diseased trees, burl. If not, you come out with the standard fare. If you cut briar root in the proper way/orientation, you will bring out the best figuring in the block and then it is up to the carver to find it.

Considering that only one or two here even knows what the words "janka" and "scale" have to do with each other most will give you advice that means...nothing.
 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,726
3,089
IMG_0876 (2).JPG

I mean, here's two blocks. Same size designation, similar ring count (age), same vendor, same batch. One of them has great grain the other is totally disappointing, random washy grain, it's just not as "nice" of a piece. So a guy pays 30 bucks for the piece on the left and 15 bucks for the piece on the right, and has different expectations for the pipe coming out of them.
 

North Pole piper

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 23, 2021
152
329
Rural, Manitoba Canada.
I don't think in those terms when I pick a block for grain. I've never ever picked up a block and seen nice grain and thought "Wow, that's a really young block."

Grain as we talk about it is the xylem of the plant, and in the heart of the burl, it's twisty random stuff. Out at the edge it's usually much more linear.

I've seen briar with growth rings almost 1/4" apart, and I've seen briar with growth rings stacked like plates, so dense it couldn't be sandblasted with any detail. The corresponding "grain" running the other way is usually but not always finer in the tight ringed burls, and my assumption is that they grew slower, in less fertile conditions.

Really old briar is uniformally brown, it's really hard to get the grain to "pop" like newer wood, and certain regions produce somewhat less stripey briar than others. The Italian stuff tends to be really striated, some of the Spanish. Greek in general less so, and again I put this down to growing conditions.

I've had blocks in my shop with 100 growth rings, and they were packed tight, and the grain was also super fine. But that's not an age thing - at 50 years, that briar was just as good, only, smaller.

Mostly, when you pick up a real old pipe, and the grain is just sucky or non-existent, it's because the pipe was cut from an ebauchon with no regard at all to grain quality or orientation. I don't think the briar was older or younger per se than what is cut now.
I think you answered my question. Which basically is that it can me more challenging to draw out the grain “make it pop” on an older block of briar since the briar is darker with age.
 
Jul 26, 2021
2,628
10,695
Metro-Detroit
View attachment 104232

I mean, here's two blocks. Same size designation, similar ring count (age), same vendor, same batch. One of them has great grain the other is totally disappointing, random washy grain, it's just not as "nice" of a piece. So a guy pays 30 bucks for the piece on the left and 15 bucks for the piece on the right, and has different expectations for the pipe coming out of them.
I just want to say this forum is great.

We have various experts in many areas of the pipe world with a variety of other worldly backgrounds and experiences that each offer help, suggestions, advice, stories, and sometimes humor with examples and pictures.

The forum is a thinktank and a deep wealth of knowledge/information.

Posts like this are why I read threads that normally wouldn't interest me.

Thank you.