Pipes Magazine » Pipe Talk

Search Forums  
   
Tags:  No tags yet. 

Pipe price

(55 posts)
  • Started 5 months ago by unadoptedlamp
  • Latest reply from brian64
  1. unadoptedlamp

    unadoptedlamp

    Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 244

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I saw this new Tom Eltang offering on Smoking Pipes today. I bought a Sara Eltang some weeks ago. Really nice smoker, great weight for my style and for my tastes, it was money well spent.

    I'm just not sure I will notice about $700 in difference between a Tom Eltang and a Sara Eltang. Here's 2 pipes to compare the price. Obviously, the shape is slightly different, but generally, they seem fairly close to me. Would anyone here pay an extra $700 for one of these pipes?

    I don't fully understand the pricing coming out of that shop, so I must be missing something other than the idea that one of these pipes cannot be guaranteed to be carved by Tom Eltang himself, but maybe it was anyway, but they won't say because it's stamped Sara Eltang and not Tom. Is that worth $700?






    Posted 5 months ago #
  2. workman

    workman

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 1,707

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Obviously you pay for the name. It's the brand thing. Like a Sixten Ivarsson is worth more than a Lars Ivarsson which is worth more than a Nanna Ivarsson and they all might or might not smoke as well as a Stanwell

    Smoking is one of the leading causes of all statistics.
    Posted 5 months ago #
  3. leafsmoker

    leafsmoker

    Member
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 276

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I remember reading my pipes magazine some years ago, and falling in love with the Eltangs. I knew I could never spend that kind of money. The thing that turned me on to his pipes was the STAINING method he used. It looks like the staining is different on each pipe. If that second pipe is Tom's, that would be my guess, the staining is darker with more contrasts. Iam not a Eltang expert though..

    The walls have ears, the windows have eyes, and the wise man tells no lies.
    You can offer someone a cigar, but you can never offer someone your pipe.
    Posted 5 months ago #
  4. chasingembers

    Embers

    Captain Of The Black Frigate
    Joined: Nov 2014
    Posts: 15,420

    online

    Login to Send PM

    The Sara's are Tom's lower priced line named after his daughter.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 5 months ago #
  5. unadoptedlamp

    unadoptedlamp

    Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 244

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The second is a Tom Eltang. Top is Sara, in each picture. To my eye, the bottom (Tom) is a more attractive pipe. I was just struck by the similarity and roughly $700 difference. I don't think I could be convinced to stump up an extra $700 for the "Tom" pipe.

    There looks to be some more interesting patterning on the Tom, maybe packed a little tighter with the grain. As for the stain, I don't know if one is considered better than the other. They just look like different colours. Is that from a different technique that costs more to produce?

    Posted 5 months ago #
  6. haparnold

    Hap

    Senior Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 967

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This is much like the difference between buying a Rolex watch versus a Tudor (sort of a Rolex sub-brand, but very much its own line). In almost every measurable way, the Tudor is technically equal to the Rolex, but a Rolex costs approximately double what a similar Tudor costs.

    I'll admit most of the difference in price between these two watches (just like the difference between a Sara Eltang and a Tom Eltang) is psychology. But there's also a very real sense in which the Rolex is worth more, even if it's just because of the name. You bought it for more, but you could also sell it for more.

    If you bought a Tom Eltang and a roughly identical Sara Eltang and treated them the exact same, and tried to sell them both as estates, I guarantee you could get more for the Tom. So regardless of the value to you, the Tom has more true value than the Sara. If re-selling isn't a consideration and they smoke identically, I'd go with the cheaper option. This is also why I don't own a Dunhill or an Eltang, or any high-grade pipes. But that doesn't make the price difference wrong in any real sense, and it doesn't mean I mind if someone else buys a high-grade for themselves.

    De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
    Posted 5 months ago #
  7. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,547

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Deleted. Better answers appeared while I typed. Not an unusual occurrence.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 5 months ago #
  8. unadoptedlamp

    unadoptedlamp

    Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 244

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    For me, in this case it was just having a Sara Eltang in my collection and seeing this one from "Tom" which I don't think quite hits the $700 better mark. Some of his pipes, in my opinion, are worth a lot more. Some, not so much. Maybe it's a matter of preference.

    I don't have any problem with people buying high end pipes. I have a few expensive ones myself and enjoy them for what they offer... which isn't necessarily a superior smoking experience in the technical sense. For me, I get a some degree of enjoyment when I look at a nice pipe that I'm smoking. Maybe a little bit like looking at art. I don't see anything out of the ordinary about buying a nice piece of art and looking at it every day. Money well spent!

    I'll shut up now. I just didn't see $700 in difference. Some of his other pipes, sure, why not. This one, I don't know. But I am biased, because I own one of these pipes...

    Posted 5 months ago #
  9. mityahicks

    mityahicks

    Member
    Joined: Nov 2018
    Posts: 175

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I think your point is solid, the differences are minor. Something I have long wondered is the value of pipes changing one generation of pipers to the next. Example: I'm 32, have been into pipes four close to 2 years. As much as I like the look of some Dunhill pipes, the brand means nothing to me and thus the up charge will never be worth it, even knowing their historical impact. I wonder if in 20 years their value will drop significantly, or there will be a recrudescence. Either way, I'm looking forward to being part of it.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  10. kola

    kola

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 596

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I have zero interest in any pipe selling for 300 USD or more. To each their own tho.'

    Now, tobacco? that's another story.

    I treat people the way they treat me. It's that simple.
    Posted 5 months ago #
  11. saltedplug

    saltedplug

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 1,913

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The prices for pipes by the elites are a joke. They are outrageous, and even if I had the money I wouldn't buy them. When I was learning I was very impressed by the comments by those who seemed to know what they were doing about this or that brand being so very good., and I chased such pipes only to find that there was no appreciable difference between less and more costly pipes. This was very disappointing. They all smoke more or less the same.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  12. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,645

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    You're essentially paying for esthetics, and a bit more for the "Tom" stamp. If it's worth $700 more to you for the Tom stamp, then you know what to do. Looking at these two gorgeous pipes, they seem equal to me.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 5 months ago #
  13. warren

    warren

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 7,547

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    saltedplug makes a reasonable observation. Excepting this,

    The prices for pipes by the elites are a joke.
    Not sure who the "elites" are and some prices are certainly high enough to not be a joking matter. Some cost fairly serious moneys.

    Not everyone is able to discern differences in products so, purchasing the cheapest one that satisfies makes sense, very true when starting out. But, not everyone is seeking the same end result in a pipe.

    I've my "work" pipes and my R&R pipes. I want more than the nicotine when I'm enjoying my evening pipes.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  14. rmpeeps

    rmpeeps

    Senior Member
    Joined: Oct 2017
    Posts: 487

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Based on those pictures alone, I’d favor the Sara Eltang. The grain is not quite as tight, but the lighter staining highlights it better. Also, it appears the stem to shank fit is better on the Sara.
    Possibly there’s something I’m missing, but doubt it’s worth the extra $700.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  15. hoosierpipeguy

    hoosierpipeguy

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 1,853

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I agree with rmpeeps, purely based on aesthetics, I prefer the lighter stained pipe. The lower is worth $700 more if with your value system, you think it is. IMHO, super high end pipes are really for people who don't have to give a seconds thought to whether it is worth it or not. It' simply a matter of whether they want it or not. If I thought for a second it would smoked $700 better than a Rad Davis, Larrysson, Tinsky or even a cob for that matter, I'd buy it. A big part of that decision equation depends on whether you view the pipe as a tool for smoking tobacco or as a beautiful piece of art. Nothing wrong with either. I'm 70 to 80% tool for smoking.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  16. pipestud

    pipestud

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 1,760

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This link is to Tom's explanation of his Sara Eltang line of pipes. The link is from Tom's website -

    https://www.eltang.com/sara-eltang

    Pipestud
    Posted 5 months ago #
  17. saltedplug

    saltedplug

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 1,913

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I think part of the problem in assessing pipes is that when someone says that a pipe is better they typically don't say whether they mean the finish and fit are better or that it smokes better; moreover, if they mean it smokes better, better in what way. Stem? Draw? Burn? We can agree about the characteristics of fit and finish far more easily than the pipe's smoking characteristics. The former is objective while the latter is subjective. In fact as a function of the palate and other cognitive qualities, it's my contention that while I can say how a pipe smokes for me, predicting how a pipe will smoke for you is more or less impossible.

    But we make such claims a;l the time. On another board Pease said that Will Purdy's pipes smoked better. Two retailers come to mind who regularly said that certain makers pipes were better. On the other hand In a vlog on another's site it was said that the prices of pipes of the Danish elite were justified given the untold numbers of other pipes they've made of the same shape. I guess that means that paying an additional $1000.00 for one of their pipes is a good idea given how thrilled I'm going to be when I hold the pipe up in front of my eyes and gaze at this maker's exquisite version of that shape. I did this from time to time when I was smoking, but often I did not., absorbed as I was in smoking it.

    We don't define very well what we mean when we rate pipes, and whatever a retailer says needs to be taken with a lump or two of salt.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  18. haparnold

    Hap

    Senior Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 967

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The simple fact is the value of an item comes from more than the amount of capital and labor involved in making it. The value of an item depends on more than the quality of the item. This is one of the immutable laws of the world.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  19. davet

    davet

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,807

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It's been said over and over again " It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it "

    Hard to argue with that. While both of the above pipes are beautiful, I doubt that I couldn't find several Grabows in my cabinet that smoke as good. Better looking, finnished etc. maybe not. A $700 difference between the two? Beyond me

    Posted 5 months ago #
  20. greatdane

    greatdane

    Junior Member
    Joined: Dec 2018
    Posts: 57

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This is much like the difference between buying a Rolex watch versus a Tudor (sort of a Rolex sub-brand, but very much its own line). In almost every measurable way, the Tudor is technically equal to the Rolex, but a Rolex costs approximately double what a similar Tudor costs.

    I respectfully have to disagree with you there. The movement in Rolex watches is vastly different than Tudor. Basically Tudor has cheaper ETA movements while Rolex has their high quality in-house movements. An ETA movement alone can be bought for under $100 on eBay, a standalone Rolex movement is 10x-15x more (and worth every dime imho).

    I don't want to sound pretentious, but I have been collecting Rolex watches and high-end firearms for 20 years. When I first got into pipe smoking, my first thought was that pipes were really relatively inexpensive. A pipe is such a personal purchase (much like a watch) that with good care you can use for life. The fact that you can get a quality Dunhill or Danish estate for a few hundred dollars is just amazing and something we should all be grateful for.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  21. davet

    davet

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,807

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    There's a body shop near by my house, best painter around,run by brothers for years. Told me the story of a customer brought his vette in many years ago. Very customized and wanted the "good" paintjob, was quoted $3500, repeatedly said nope wanted the "good" paintjob. They finally said $5000, the customer very happily said " That's the paintjob I want " He got a $3500 paintjob, the best they could do.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  22. raevans

    raevans

    Member
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 273

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    In another time in my life, I would have said "yes, it's well worth it". However, there was a time that I, (and I mean only I), lost perspective of my pipe smoking. It became more about "the hunt" and less about actually smoking and enjoying the experience. I was always looking for the next "trophy". It was so bad at one point I had forty plus high grade pipes that went untouched. I quit for a while, about five years, sold off most of my collection and just walked away. When I decided to pick up the pipe again, I made a vow to never but a pipe that I wasn't going to smoke and never fall back into the "conquest" stage. So far, it's been great. No pressure for the ultimate pipe and much more enjoyment when I smoke.

    That being said, when I look at these two pipes, they are both beautiful. Would I pay an extra $700.00 for the Tom? No, I just don't get the feeling that it would smoke $700.00 better than the Sara. However, as it has been said many times, a pipes value is in what somebody is willing to pay for it. I'm sure that there are folks in the pipe smoking community that will pick up the Tom without hesitation. When someone buys it, then yes, I guess it is worth $700.00 more than the Sara.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  23. greatdane

    greatdane

    Junior Member
    Joined: Dec 2018
    Posts: 57

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    A Casio will tell time better than a Rolex.
    A Corolla will be a more reliable car than a Rolls Royce.
    A Dr Grabow may smoke better than a Dunhill (although this is probably less likely than the other 2 examples listed above).

    The price people are willing to pay for an item goes far beyond basic utility. Aesthetics, quality of materials used (irrespective of functionality), etc, makes a much larger impact on market value than utility in numerous examples.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  24. haparnold

    Hap

    Senior Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 967

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Basically Tudor has cheaper ETA movements while Rolex has their high quality in-house movements.

    This is off-topic, and I apologize. But Tudor has been releasing watches with in-house movements for a few years now (such as the Black Bay 58, with its MT5402 movement, which is also COSC certified).

    But (more in line with the discussion of pipes) you and I both know that although the movement is important in a watch, it's not the main thing that drives the value in high-end watches, any more than the drilling of a high-end pipe is the primary driver of its value. It's a sine qua non of premium value, perhaps, but not exactly the main determinant of value.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  25. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

    The Bard Of Barlings
    Joined: Jun 2013
    Posts: 9,645

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Yet another stirring chapter in the never ending question, does an increase in price equal an increase in mechanical function. In the case of pipes the answer is always no.

    I have a friend who collects Danish ultra high grades, a fellow very experienced with pipes and tobaccos and recognized widely in the larger piping community. And one day I asked him flat out, "Do your Nordhs and other high grades smoke that much better than a pipe costing far less?"

    His response was a classic. "My Nordhs smoke about as well as my Grabows."

    So he's not collecting them because they're such superior smokers to all others. He collects them because owning them gives him pleasure. He enjoys the beauty of their craftsmanship and aesthetics of their design. And if someone wants to pay him more than he paid, he'll happily sell any pipe as he's not sentimental about "stuff" in the least.

    And while it's true that "something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it", it's also important to remember that the rule applies only to that one particular buyer at that one particular moment in time. Your $7000 pipe might only be worth $70 to me, but if you need that $70 to keep body and soul together, then the pipe is worth the $70 I offered because everyone else offered $69.99.

    People with easy money will happily drop $500,000 on a watch or a high end record player. Back when I was selling Vacheron Constantine, Audemars Piquet, Omega, and other fine watches I knew that a Caravelle would do just as well for about 99% of buyers. And some were really happy with their Caravelles and others wanted that Piquet handmade super thin watch with compound repeaters. And it rarely had anything to do with the need to have improved functionality.

    It has much more to do with providing pleasure by fulfilling some emotional or intellectual need that goes beyond basic mechanical functionality. For those who can afford to spend $$$$ to satisfy that need, the extra $700 is not a consideration.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  26. ashdigger

    ashdigger

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 5,241

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    ^^^ THIS ^^^

    Ubi Ignis Est?
    Posted 5 months ago #
  27. ashdigger

    ashdigger

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 5,241

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Life is NOT a zero sum game. It's very hard to explain costs to people who fight for coupons.

    If you like something and the cost doesn't bother you, then don't let others opinions bother you.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  28. hoosierpipeguy

    hoosierpipeguy

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 1,853

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    If you like something and the cost doesn't bother you, then don't let others opinions bother you.

    When you reach a point where cost doesn't bother you, you don't ask other people's opinion on what you buy.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  29. unadoptedlamp

    unadoptedlamp

    Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 244

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Interesting comments. I tend to agree with most of them. But I do have conflicting feelings about it all.

    In this case, I'm not comparing a Grabow to an Eltang. It's an Eltang to an Eltang. One was intended for the luxury market and the other for the pretty nice pipe market. And my Sara Eltang that I bought is a pretty nice pipe to my tastes. Smokes great, has a good mouth feel, weight and looks pretty to me. I would buy it again without thinking about it.

    Since these pipes both came out of the same shop and looked so similar, I questioned the $700 difference. In some cases, with his pipes, I could see that difference. There's just something about some of the high grades that look like luxury. That doesn't mean I'd pay for it, but I can see it in some cases.

    In this case, I can't say I noticed the difference. That's all. Two pipes from the same shop that are pretty similar, yet have very different prices.

    I don't even know who sets the price. I suspect smokingpipes has a lot to to do with that. I also suspect they'll set the price for whatever they think they can get for it. That's fine. I'm not even complaining because I don't care.

    There's a Sara Eltang on Smokingpipes for about $500, which is a handful more than the rest of the Sara pipes. In the description, it's suggested that "Tom" was the one who carved the "Sara" pipe because of the shaping and display of grain. Did they tack on an extra $200 for that interpretation? Being stamped "Sara", there's no way to know if Tom carved that pipe any more than you could know if he carved mine. To get that knowledge -for sure- you have to buy a "Tom Eltang". But... yes, it's true. A "Sara" could be carved by the man himself.

    I'm not picking a side any more. I agree, it's worth whatever someone will pay. Just like my house or the watch I wear. I get it.

    When I saw the new Eltang being advertised, I was going to buy it for the $3-500 price. But in my opinion, $1k was too much. It's not because I can't buy a $1k pipe. I could, but I don't, for my own reasons, just like many other people here.
    It's also partly because I already bought a pipe for about 1/3 - 1/4 the price from the same shop and it looked pretty much the same to me.

    Just thought the pricing was interesting in this case, because it comes from the same place and looked so similar. That's all.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  30. hoosierpipeguy

    hoosierpipeguy

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2018
    Posts: 1,853

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Would you rather buy a Lexus or a Toyota? Not with all models, but a number of Lexus models are nothing more than a dressed up Toyota. Same is true for Honda and Acura as well as Ford and Mercury. If you go into Walgreens or CVS Pharmacies, you can buy the name brand or in many cases, the exact same thing for less money that is private labeled Walgreens or CVS. In other words, it's a marketing strategy employed across many industries. Some call it "Good, Better or Best" selling.

    I happen to agree with the value assessment you considered and the questions you asked. I don't see the additional value. In fact, if they had reversed the labels on these two pipes, they may have well had an easier time selling the top one for more money. It's all about perception.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  31. davet

    davet

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,807

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    $43.20

    $436.00

    Posted 5 months ago #
  32. saltedplug

    saltedplug

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 1,913

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It has much more to do with providing pleasure by fulfilling some emotional or intellectual need that goes beyond basic mechanical functionality. For those who can afford to spend $$$$ to satisfy that need, the extra $700 is not a consideration.

    When I get hooked by an object I have a sense of undefinable richness that I would have did I buy it. It may only last for a few days but at times lt lingers such as it did for a Brad Pohlman lumberman on smokingpipes last year. It was $800.00 and didn't sell quickly. I liked it as the wood was gorgeous and finished in a medium-dark, rich brown. Thus irt had enough things that I like in finish, but it was also a straight and light weight. For what indefinable intellectual or emotional reason, it hooked me. Had I had the cash, I would have bought it without looking back.

    That wasn't happening so I loved on my collection all the more.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  33. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Joe Blow

    Member
    Joined: Dec 2017
    Posts: 165

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Raevans used a word / phrase above that resonated with.... "Trophy".
    That's what a lot of this is to most, including myself.
    Pride of ownership and the thrill of the chase.... culminating in acquisition is addictive. Only problem is that once acquired, attention moves to find what will be the next conquest.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  34. chasingembers

    Embers

    Captain Of The Black Frigate
    Joined: Nov 2014
    Posts: 15,420

    online

    Login to Send PM

    Not with all models, but a number of Lexus models are nothing more than a dressed up Toyota.

    Yep, the company I work for makes some the same components that go in both.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  35. craiginthecorn

    craiginthecorn

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 1,078

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The old value question. That's simple. An item's value is what the market will bear, but the factors that set that value are complex and personal.

    I have a range of Eltang pipes and felt each was a good value. The Sara Eltangs are excellent. I have seven of them. I consider them very nice everyday smokers that don't need a lot of babying. The finish seems fairly durable, the briar on the dense side, smallish chambers, and comfortable, carefree acrylic stems. These are among the relatively small number of pipes that sit out in a rack, as I smoke them often and I needn't worry about oxidation from sunlight.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  36. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 18,163

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It’s funny, I made a lot of the same points as you guys in the Todd Johnson/ Briarworks discussion last week, but of course Sable has better metaphors here, but it’s interesting that I got dry humped by everyone in that thread who was saying that better quality and performance equals more money, and more money means exactly better workmanship and better quality. Where the hell are those guys now?

    Anyways, congrats on your Eltang. And, keep in mind that China is driving up prices for some of these artisans.

    Michael
    Posted 5 months ago #
  37. ricebiscuit

    ricebiscuit

    New Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 36

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Per Toms website- the stems are hand finished acrylic. That’s a pretty big difference in time. I would say that alone is a large part of the price difference. At least for me, making a stem is about half the total time to make a traditional shaped pipe.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  38. judcasper

    judcasper

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 306

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    No pipe is worth $700 - period.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  39. cosmicfolklore

    Cosmic

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Aug 2013
    Posts: 18,163

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I’m not a rich man, and I will never be able to own a Lambergini or Maserati, but for just around $1000 I have a few Maseratis of the Pipe world on my rack. No, they don’t smoke any better than a cheaper pipe, but I enjoy them. Aesthetics, to some, is worth the price. And, no, it doesn’t mean those of us who buy these pipes are getting comparatively more enjoyment. Some of us just like to save up for a few months and treat themself to something that we enjoy owning, smoking, and admiring. So, to me some pipes are worth it. But, no, to me not all expensive pipes seem worth it. But then, I don’t really care for all expensive cars either.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  40. haparnold

    Hap

    Senior Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 967

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    No pipe is worth $700 - period.

    I dare say you wouldn't make this statement if someone gave you a Bo Nordh and you were wanting to sell it.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  41. davet

    davet

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,807

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    No pipe is worth $700 - period.

    You mean to say "No pipe is worth $700 to me - period."

    Posted 5 months ago #
  42. judcasper

    judcasper

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 306

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I dare say you wouldn't make this statement if someone gave you a Bo Nordh and you were wanting to sell it.

    No, I dare say I wouldn't.

    You mean to say "No pipe is worth $700 to me - period."

    No, with all due respect, I mean what I said. It's a piece of shaped wood.

    I know this probably sounds like a typical troll thing to say, but I honestly don't get it. I appreciate the time, skill and work that goes into these handmade pipes, but that kind of money cannot be justified in my book.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  43. haparnold

    Hap

    Senior Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 967

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The fact that you agree you would be willing to sell a pipe for $700 if someone were willing to pay it implies that you think either:

    a. People who pay $700 for a pipe are bad at making value judgements

    or

    b. Some pipes are worth $700, just not to you.

    Am I misunderstanding you? According to my wife, I'm really good at misunderstanding people.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  44. davet

    davet

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,807

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    A pipe would be worth $700 only if HE is selling it

    Posted 5 months ago #
  45. judcasper

    judcasper

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 306

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    The fact that you agree you would be willing to sell a pipe for $700 if someone were willing to pay it implies that you think either:

    a. People who pay $700 for a pipe are bad at making value judgements

    or

    b. Some pipes are worth $700, just not to you.

    Am I misunderstanding you? According to my wife, I'm really good at misunderstanding people.

    You're not really misunderstanding - maybe misinterpreting. It's A, but I don't mean it in a disrespectful way. It's their money and I'm certainly not going to argue with anyone who values any given pipe so highly. I can't honestly sit here and state no pipe is worth $700, as a fact, as others clearly think otherwise.

    A pipe would be worth $700 only if HE is selling it [:mrgreen:]

    Well, to be harsh... yes

    Posted 5 months ago #
  46. haparnold

    Hap

    Senior Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 967

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Well, to be harsh... yes

    Haha! You seem to know your own mind very well. Vive la difference!

    Posted 5 months ago #
  47. brian64

    brian64

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 5,194

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    It's very hard to explain costs to people who fight for coupons.

    When you reach a point where cost doesn't bother you, you don't ask other people's opinion on what you buy.

    The perception of the value of the currency, not just the object, tends to be left out of these discussions.

    It depends to a great degree on how much time and effort one has to invest in earning that amount.

    There are many people to whom $700 is less than pocket change.

    “Bipartisan usually means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out.” – George Carlin
    Posted 5 months ago #
  48. unadoptedlamp

    unadoptedlamp

    Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 244

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This started out not as "is any pipe worth $X?" but rather, hey, look at these two pipes and see if you think there is a $700 difference.

    Key points:

    1. They both come from the same shop
    2. They both have a similar shape, size and finish/accents/grain
    3. One of these two pipes may have been carved by Tom Eltang. One of them certainly was.

    In regards to money, I am in the camp that will think before I spend it. Most wealthy people that I know also treat their money in this way, regardless of quantity. It's just smart, and it acts as a great buffer to making really stupid decisions. I find that if you keep every part of your house in order in the day to day, the whole thing will be sound for the lifetime.

    Lots of small bad decisions have a weird way of filtering up to the bigger -more important- decisions.

    There are, perhaps, some wealthy people who do not think about their money at all, but I suggest they are rare. Some billionaires, maybe. Even then, I doubt it. Some people also pretend to not care in specific circumstances to put on a little show for anyone who is looking. That's fine, they have their reasons. But don't believe everything you see. The ones who truly don't give a damn tend to be good at losing it.

    Ask my friend who bought a chalet from the bankruptcy proceedings of an "aristocrat" who didn't think about money and did things like flying from Southern Germany to Paris for dinner and a haircut, among other "rich things" to do. I think he eventually killed himself. At any rate, he lost it all.

    Anyway... I tend not to look down on people who cut coupons, haggle deals, or question the value they are presented with. Seems smart to me. But what the hell do I know?

    I think there are lots of pipes worth between $1 and $1,000,000 depending on the story. Depending on the way it is carved. Depending on what it is made out of. Depending on who carved it. Depending on a near limitless set of variables. I also think it is legit to question all of those prices in-between. Most people do, even the rich ones.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  49. haparnold

    Hap

    Senior Member
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 967

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    In response to the original question, the Tom is absolutely not worth $700 more than the Sara to me. In fact, I prefer the Sara.

    Given the fact that Tom Eltang seems to have no trouble unloading his pipes to willing consumers, it seems wrong to say that in general, the Tom does in fact have at least $700 more value than the Sara.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  50. judcasper

    judcasper

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 306

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    This started out not as "is any pipe worth $X?" but rather, hey, look at these two pipes and see if you think there is a $700 difference.

    Sorry, unadoptedlamp, you can blame me for the little diversion. I can't in fact answer your original question as I know bugger all about pipes.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  51. unadoptedlamp

    unadoptedlamp

    Member
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 244

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Jud- No need for any apology. I was just reminding about some details. I think you have some interesting points worth considering. I initially thought the price was interesting because they are so similar and they come from the same shop.

    From your perspective, I can appreciate why you think this way. There are some forms of art, for example, that I wouldn't trade a bucket of piss for but some people spend hundreds of thousands on. Maybe it's similar.

    Honestly, I probably wouldn't spend $1k on a pipe. I like pipes, but I don't like them so much that I'll spend $1k - $10k on a pipe. I think many people can afford to buy pipes like this. If you have a car, chances are you can find a few grand for your pipe passion - if you are passionate. I know of pretty common people who have bicycles worth many thousands of dollars. It's not crazy money.

    I would certainly spend it on other things though. A lot of the perception of value, I think, comes from what you are interested in.

    My thoughts on this are sure to evolve and maybe even wrap around to the beginning over the years. Value is an odd thing to me.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  52. judcasper

    judcasper

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 306

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    From your perspective, I can appreciate why you think this way. There are some forms of art, for example, that I wouldn't trade a bucket of piss for but some people spend hundreds of thousands on. Maybe it's similar.

    I can certainly sympathise with your art analogy, but with pipes it's not really about taste dictating how much I'd spend. As it happens I think the pipes you've posted in your OP are gorgeous, especially the second with the slightly fatter bowl. No, it's more about what you're actually buying - essentially a lump of carved/shaped wood. I'm afraid I just can't see the justification in paying several hundreds for such a thing.

    It's worth mentioning that I'm aware of the economics of all this. If these pipe makers didn't charge hundreds for their creations, there's a fairly sound argument to say they wouldn't continue to exist.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  53. davet

    davet

    Preferred Member
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 3,807

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    No, it's more about what you're actually buying - essentially a lump of carved/shaped wood.

    A tire, one tire, for my Jeep is $371.78 , but it's just a big chunk of rubber... a diamond is just a piece of coal, gold is found just layin around. It's all about perspective. How much would it cost for a hand cut stem for a pipe? It's just a piece of plastic isn't it?

    I can't justify paying $700 for a pipe, no way, no how, but I can't say it's not worth the money. It's just not worth it to me or I can't afford to spend that much for a pipe.

    Posted 5 months ago #
  54. judcasper

    judcasper

    Senior Member
    Joined: Jan 2019
    Posts: 306

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    I can't justify paying $700 for a pipe, no way, no how, but I can't say it's not worth the money. It's just not worth it to me or I can't afford to spend that much for a pipe.

    Well that's a fairer way of looking at it, and far less opinionated than my argument. I think this is what I should have said from the start

    Posted 5 months ago #
  55. brian64

    brian64

    Preferred Member
    Joined: Jan 2011
    Posts: 5,194

    offline

    Login to Send PM

    Ask my friend who bought a chalet from the bankruptcy proceedings of an "aristocrat" who didn't think about money and did things like flying from Southern Germany to Paris for dinner and a haircut, among other "rich things" to do. I think he eventually killed himself. At any rate, he lost it all.

    Sounds rather like someone who inherited a lot of money but had no real income streams of their own.

    And yes, it's certainly true that wealthy people who are wise with their money aren't normally going to be in the habit of being flippant or reckless even with (what are to them) minor purchases.

    But I would still say that if you have two pipe smokers who both appreciate the qualities of a really nice pipe, and one makes $700 or more per day, every day...while it takes the other a week or more to make that much...the second guy is going to be FAR more reluctant to pay $700 or more for a pipe than the first guy.

    And he's more likely to question how a pipe could be worth that much...simply because $700 to him represents much more time and energy out of his life than the first guy.

    Posted 5 months ago #

Reply

You must log in to post.

 

 

    Back To Top  | Back to Forum Home Page

   Members Online Now
   jojoc, chasingembers, craig61a, donjgiles, mindglue, jfred, jabomano, oldgeezersmoker, mikethompson, greeneyes