Pipe price

[davet]

There's a body shop near by my house, best painter around,run by brothers for years. Told me the story of a customer brought his vette in many years ago. Very customized and wanted the "good" paintjob, was quoted $3500, repeatedly said nope wanted the "good" paintjob. They finally said $5000, the customer very happily said " That's the paintjob I want " He got a $3500 paintjob, the best they could do. :crazy:

 

[raevans]

In another time in my life, I would have said "yes, it's well worth it". However, there was a time that I, (and I mean only I), lost perspective of my pipe smoking. It became more about "the hunt" and less about actually smoking and enjoying the experience. I was always looking for the next "trophy". It was so bad at one point I had forty plus high grade pipes that went untouched. I quit for a while, about five years, sold off most of my collection and just walked away. When I decided to pick up the pipe again, I made a vow to never but a pipe that I wasn't going to smoke and never fall back into the "conquest" stage. So far, it's been great. No pressure for the ultimate pipe and much more enjoyment when I smoke.
That being said, when I look at these two pipes, they are both beautiful. Would I pay an extra $700.00 for the Tom? No, I just don't get the feeling that it would smoke $700.00 better than the Sara. However, as it has been said many times, a pipes value is in what somebody is willing to pay for it. I'm sure that there are folks in the pipe smoking community that will pick up the Tom without hesitation. When someone buys it, then yes, I guess it is worth $700.00 more than the Sara.

 

[greatdane]

A Casio will tell time better than a Rolex.

A Corolla will be a more reliable car than a Rolls Royce.

A Dr Grabow may smoke better than a Dunhill (although this is probably less likely than the other 2 examples listed above).
The price people are willing to pay for an item goes far beyond basic utility. Aesthetics, quality of materials used (irrespective of functionality), etc, makes a much larger impact on market value than utility in numerous examples.

 

[haparnold]

Basically Tudor has cheaper ETA movements while Rolex has their high quality in-house movements.

This is off-topic, and I apologize. But Tudor has been releasing watches with in-house movements for a few years now (such as the Black Bay 58, with its MT5402 movement, which is also COSC certified).
But (more in line with the discussion of pipes) you and I both know that although the movement is important in a watch, it's not the main thing that drives the value in high-end watches, any more than the drilling of a high-end pipe is the primary driver of its value. It's a sine qua non of premium value, perhaps, but not exactly the main determinant of value.

 

[sablebrush52]

Yet another stirring chapter in the never ending question, does an increase in price equal an increase in mechanical function. In the case of pipes the answer is always no.
I have a friend who collects Danish ultra high grades, a fellow very experienced with pipes and tobaccos and recognized widely in the larger piping community. And one day I asked him flat out, "Do your Nordhs and other high grades smoke that much better than a pipe costing far less?"
His response was a classic. "My Nordhs smoke about as well as my Grabows."
So he's not collecting them because they're such superior smokers to all others. He collects them because owning them gives him pleasure. He enjoys the beauty of their craftsmanship and aesthetics of their design. And if someone wants to pay him more than he paid, he'll happily sell any pipe as he's not sentimental about "stuff" in the least.
And while it's true that "something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it", it's also important to remember that the rule applies only to that one particular buyer at that one particular moment in time. Your $7000 pipe might only be worth $70 to me, but if you need that $70 to keep body and soul together, then the pipe is worth the $70 I offered because everyone else offered $69.99.
People with easy money will happily drop $500,000 on a watch or a high end record player. Back when I was selling Vacheron Constantine, Audemars Piquet, Omega, and other fine watches I knew that a Caravelle would do just as well for about 99% of buyers. And some were really happy with their Caravelles and others wanted that Piquet handmade super thin watch with compound repeaters. And it rarely had anything to do with the need to have improved functionality.
It has much more to do with providing pleasure by fulfilling some emotional or intellectual need that goes beyond basic mechanical functionality. For those who can afford to spend $$$$ to satisfy that need, the extra $700 is not a consideration.

 

[ashdigger]

^^^ THIS ^^^

 

[ashdigger]

Life is NOT a zero sum game. It's very hard to explain costs to people who fight for coupons.
If you like something and the cost doesn't bother you, then don't let others opinions bother you.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

If you like something and the cost doesn't bother you, then don't let others opinions bother you.

When you reach a point where cost doesn't bother you, you don't ask other people's opinion on what you buy.

 

[unadoptedlamp]

Interesting comments. I tend to agree with most of them. But I do have conflicting feelings about it all.
In this case, I'm not comparing a Grabow to an Eltang. It's an Eltang to an Eltang. One was intended for the luxury market and the other for the pretty nice pipe market. And my Sara Eltang that I bought is a pretty nice pipe to my tastes. Smokes great, has a good mouth feel, weight and looks pretty to me. I would buy it again without thinking about it.
Since these pipes both came out of the same shop and looked so similar, I questioned the $700 difference. In some cases, with his pipes, I could see that difference. There's just something about some of the high grades that look like luxury. That doesn't mean I'd pay for it, but I can see it in some cases.
In this case, I can't say I noticed the difference. That's all. Two pipes from the same shop that are pretty similar, yet have very different prices.
I don't even know who sets the price. I suspect smokingpipes has a lot to to do with that. I also suspect they'll set the price for whatever they think they can get for it. That's fine. I'm not even complaining because I don't care.
There's a Sara Eltang on Smokingpipes for about $500, which is a handful more than the rest of the Sara pipes. In the description, it's suggested that "Tom" was the one who carved the "Sara" pipe because of the shaping and display of grain. Did they tack on an extra $200 for that interpretation? Being stamped "Sara", there's no way to know if Tom carved that pipe any more than you could know if he carved mine. To get that knowledge -for sure- you have to buy a "Tom Eltang". But... yes, it's true. A "Sara" could be carved by the man himself.
I'm not picking a side any more. I agree, it's worth whatever someone will pay. Just like my house or the watch I wear. I get it.
When I saw the new Eltang being advertised, I was going to buy it for the $3-500 price. But in my opinion, $1k was too much. It's not because I can't buy a $1k pipe. I could, but I don't, for my own reasons, just like many other people here.

It's also partly because I already bought a pipe for about 1/3 - 1/4 the price from the same shop and it looked pretty much the same to me.
Just thought the pricing was interesting in this case, because it comes from the same place and looked so similar. That's all.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Would you rather buy a Lexus or a Toyota? Not with all models, but a number of Lexus models are nothing more than a dressed up Toyota. Same is true for Honda and Acura as well as Ford and Mercury. If you go into Walgreens or CVS Pharmacies, you can buy the name brand or in many cases, the exact same thing for less money that is private labeled Walgreens or CVS. In other words, it's a marketing strategy employed across many industries. Some call it "Good, Better or Best" selling.
I happen to agree with the value assessment you considered and the questions you asked. I don't see the additional value. In fact, if they had reversed the labels on these two pipes, they may have well had an easier time selling the top one for more money. It's all about perception.

 

[davet]

$43.20

$436.00

 

[saltedplug]

It has much more to do with providing pleasure by fulfilling some emotional or intellectual need that goes beyond basic mechanical functionality. For those who can afford to spend $$$$ to satisfy that need, the extra $700 is not a consideration.

When I get hooked by an object I have a sense of undefinable richness that I would have did I buy it. It may only last for a few days but at times lt lingers such as it did for a Brad Pohlman lumberman on smokingpipes last year. It was $800.00 and didn't sell quickly. I liked it as the wood was gorgeous and finished in a medium-dark, rich brown. Thus irt had enough things that I like in finish, but it was also a straight and light weight. For what indefinable intellectual or emotional reason, it hooked me. Had I had the cash, I would have bought it without looking back.
That wasn't happening so I loved on my collection all the more.

 

[robcapp]

Raevans used a word / phrase above that resonated with.... "Trophy".

That's what a lot of this is to most, including myself.

Pride of ownership and the thrill of the chase.... culminating in acquisition is addictive. Only problem is that once acquired, attention moves to find what will be the next conquest.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Not with all models, but a number of Lexus models are nothing more than a dressed up Toyota.

Yep, the company I work for makes some the same components that go in both.

 

[craiginthecorn]

The old value question. That's simple. An item's value is what the market will bear, but the factors that set that value are complex and personal.
I have a range of Eltang pipes and felt each was a good value. The Sara Eltangs are excellent. I have seven of them. I consider them very nice everyday smokers that don't need a lot of babying. The finish seems fairly durable, the briar on the dense side, smallish chambers, and comfortable, carefree acrylic stems. These are among the relatively small number of pipes that sit out in a rack, as I smoke them often and I needn't worry about oxidation from sunlight.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

It’s funny, I made a lot of the same points as you guys in the Todd Johnson/ Briarworks discussion last week, but of course Sable has better metaphors here, but it’s interesting that I got dry humped by everyone in that thread who was saying that better quality and performance equals more money, and more money means exactly better workmanship and better quality. Where the hell are those guys now?
Anyways, congrats on your Eltang. And, keep in mind that China is driving up prices for some of these artisans.

 

[ricebiscuit]

Per Toms website- the stems are hand finished acrylic. That’s a pretty big difference in time. I would say that alone is a large part of the price difference. At least for me, making a stem is about half the total time to make a traditional shaped pipe.

 

[judcasper]

No pipe is worth $700 - period.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I’m not a rich man, and I will never be able to own a Lambergini or Maserati, but for just around $1000 I have a few Maseratis of the Pipe world on my rack. No, they don’t smoke any better than a cheaper pipe, but I enjoy them. Aesthetics, to some, is worth the price. And, no, it doesn’t mean those of us who buy these pipes are getting comparatively more enjoyment. Some of us just like to save up for a few months and treat themself to something that we enjoy owning, smoking, and admiring. So, to me some pipes are worth it. But, no, to me not all expensive pipes seem worth it. But then, I don’t really care for all expensive cars either.

 

[haparnold]

No pipe is worth $700 - period.

I dare say you wouldn't make this statement if someone gave you a Bo Nordh and you were wanting to sell it.