Kaywoodie Stingers and Registration Numbers: An Obsession Reconsidered

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buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
1,867
14
Let me begin by saying that Kaywoodie enthusiasts seem to be to pipe collecting, what the fictional Matthew Quigley was to late 19th century Australia. That is to say we are perceived by the English (read English pipe enthusiasts) as related but confoundingly backwards, while recent arrivals establishing themselves in a new land (read beginning pipe collectors - I am not suggesting you have criminal histories) do not know what to make of us at all. Consequently, this topic may interest only a small number of those who frequent this forum. Nonetheless, I hope what follows will be of use to the Kaywoodie collector...or the insomniac.
I have noticed in my time as a Kaywoodie enthusiast that there is among our ilk a strong obsession with Kaywoodie pipes whose stingers are stamped with the registration number for the Drinkless "fitment" patent. To some extent I understand the obsession. I once was possessed by it, too. The obsession is not entirely unfounded. Presumably, pipes with that stamp on their stingers are older than pipes without the stamp. After all, once the patent expired there was little point in devoting labor to the task of stamping the number, so the stamp was discontinued at an early date.
If our obsession is not baseless, then it is at least problematic in terms of the buying behavior it produces. For example, I have seen Kaywoodie pipes with Registration Numbers on their stingers go for three times the price of an otherwise completely equal Kaywoodie with an unmarked stinger. That kind of price difference might make sense if we could be sure that the pipe bearing the stamped stinger were really older than the pipe with the unmarked stinger. There, though, is the rub - we cannot be at all sure that marked stingers indicate an older pipe.
One example from my own collection should help open my case for tempering our obsession with Reg. No. stampings. Specifically, I have two Kaywoodie Super Grain pipes in the same shape. The first has a four-digit finish/shape number that dates it to 1939 or earlier. That pipe's stinger has no markings whatsoever. They do not appear to have been polished away; rather they appear to have never been stamped in the first place. The second has a two-digit shape number and dates to the post-1939 period. This pipe, however, does have the Reg. No. stamped on its stinger. In this case, then, the older pipe is not the one with the marked stinger.
Another example will, I hope, reinforce my argument. In my collection I also have a Kaywoodie Centennial whose stinger bears the Reg. No. stamp. I believe it to be an early production example of its line, but it still cannot predate 1946-1947. Other, older Kaywoodie pipes certainly lack the Reg. No. stamp found on my post-war Centennial.
So, what explains the chronologically uneven existence of Reg. No. stamps on Kaywoodie stingers? I do not know. I can speculate that some stingers were produced while the patent was in force but that the stingers were not actually fitted to pipes until a later date. I imagine bins of same-size stingers where marked and unmarked specimens co-mingled until being randomly plucked by a craftsman assembling a pipe. In other cases, such as that of my Centennial, an uncommon shape calling for an uncommon stinger size may have received an older stinger than would have a pipe of a more popular shape. I really do not know why marked stingers are less helpful to dating a Kaywoodie than many, myself included, have imagined. I know only that Reg. No. markings are at best an imperfect cue for dating a Kaywoodie. Perhaps we should stop paying premium prices for a stamp that does not really mean that much.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,317
11,073
Maryland
postimg.cc
As one of the Kaywoodie enthusiasts on this forum, I agree with your assessment completely. We do chase four digit shape numbers and Drinkless stamped stinger equipped pipes, assuming they are of a certain vintage. Dating a Kaywoodie is simply an educated guess at best.
My old Kaywoodies, with four ball stingers attached all smoke quite well. But to be honest, my three hole stinger pipes smoke just as well.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,317
11,073
Maryland
postimg.cc
Reg. Number stamped stinger from an 8783B Drinkless pipe.
kaywoodie_8783b_drinkless_before-11-e1415244052847.jpg

Drinkless stinger with smaller, 4-hole ball from a Supergrain Churchwarden.
kaywoodie_95_supergrain_4-stinger.jpg

Unstamped 4-hole stinger from a 99B Flame grain pipe.
kaywoodie_flame_grain_99b_finished-12.jpg


 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Great post!
Thanks.

:puffy:
I'm a more recent convert to Kaywoodie, so my knowledge is limited.
The prices for the older ones as of late have been incredible, and I'm having a hard time finding a nice Thorn,

likewise, a nice Allbriar.

(these 2 lines are easy to determine a rough date!)
I'm very impressed by the sandblast quality of Kaywoodie (not only the Thorns, but also the Relief Grains), to such a high degree as to be a match (and sometimes even better) than the old Dunhill Shells.
Is it true that Kaywoodie used a tumbler type of blasting machine?
Another thing about Kayoodie which impressed me, the stems are incredibly comfortable (based on the few I own or have smoked), and the bits tend to be thin, which I prefer.
Most definitely, Kaywoodie stems are pretty damn nice.
Here's a stinger pic of a Rock Ambera I used to have - sold it to Gary here on this forum, he's our resident Kaywoodie expert (and has an incredible collection), hopefully he'll see this thread and add his comments!
5pDMsf1.jpg


 

xrundog

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 23, 2014
737
1
Ames, IA
Buying a lot of my pipes on ebay, I have not noticed much of a price difference based on the reg. number. But certainly older pipes in the harder to find lines of pipes are starting to pull serious money at auction.
Your observation regarding use of earlier stingers in later pipes has been discussed at the Kaywoodie forums. The fellows who have reason to know this stuff say it is just a case of using materials that are available. There is no hard date for transitions to newer stock. There may be an overlap of some years.

Picture a bin of stingers getting shoved into a corner at the factory. Bins of new stingers keep getting piled up in front of it. The newer stuff is used but they don't get to that back corner. Then one day, 6 years later, they pull out that old bin and use it. Several thousand early 50s pipes are fitted with 1940s stingers. And that one bin of stingers is messing with peoples heads today. Some people insist on hard dates for dating Kaywoodie pipes. It just doesn't work that way. The best one can do is to use words like "around" or "about" regarding dates.

 
Mar 30, 2014
2,853
78
wv
Nice timing with this topic. I have a Drinkless Panel with the 4 hole registration stinger in the resto process right now. I was hoping to get a rough estimate on how old it is.

So... pre war or post war?

REG. NO. 213598

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,625
44,838
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
rsuninv - your pipes with the KBB in clover stamp place the pipe at 1933 or earlier, as that stamp ceased to be used about that time. Dating Kaywoodies is inexact at best, but one can set ranges based on a number of stampings.
buroak - I collect English pipes AND I've collected Kaywoodies. I'll still keep an eye out for an early piece as the wood that KBB had stockpiled in the 1920's thru early 1930's was as good as any anywhere. My early Kaywoodies are the easy equal to almost anything in my collection. As for English collectors casting disparaging eyes on Kaywoodies, chalk it up to their being poseurs, who know brands but know nothing, absolutely nothing, zero, zip, nada, null, zilch, about pipes. And there's no shortage of poseurs in this hobby. How else to account for the dimwit who spends hundreds on a burnt out Dunhill and then proudly parade it around like a head on a spike.
I'm happy to see collector interest growing with these pipes. They're good pipes.

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
605
Great stingers and stamps, rsuninv. I bet they have nice pipes to go with them. :mrgreen: (Pics?)

 

xrundog

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 23, 2014
737
1
Ames, IA
Nice timing with this topic. I have a Drinkless Panel with the 4 hole registration stinger in the resto process right now. I was hoping to get a rough estimate on how old it is.

So... pre war or post war?

REG. NO. 213598
Could be either. Stamps matter and would probably tell the tale.
As long as we're posting old timers, here's a 7633.
Kaywoodie7633RAleft_zps9120493b.jpg


 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
605
All very nice, rsuninv. Great blast on the Thorn, but the panel is a stunner. Thanks for the pics.

 

docwatson

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
1,149
9
New England
I have been a Kaywoodie collector/smoker for over 30 years and will agree with others that say they are some of my finest smoking pipes. For many years I specialized in collecting all unsmoked specimens because they have much history and varied shapes and sizes, they were affordable and available. My father was a Kaywoodie wholesaler working for a tobacco company since the mid 1940's. So I guess that's where my interests began, admiring his catalogs when I was a young lad and I still have quite a few of those old catalogs, Yello Bole included.

It is seldom that I ever buy any more being that having over 100 kaywoodies is a bit much.

The sandblasted Kaywoodies are tumble blasted pipes with some of the craggiest/gnarly grain ever which looks similar to the so called double blasted Dunhill pipes of the 1920's. And those kaywoodies are fantastic smokers.

I've enjoy reading your posts in this thread,keep the pics coming.

:clap:

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
1,867
14
Wow. I had not expected this thread to generate as much activity as it has.
Xrundog, Despite searching for discussion of this topic, I had not seen any prior activity. I agree with your accumulating bins theory.
Ssjones, I am glad to once more run into you on this forum. I have to admit that some of my three-hole stinger pipes are also great smokers. That said, the first Kaywoodie I ever smoked - a late production Carburetor - has a heavy lacquer finish and smokes very hot. Of course, the trouble with that pipe is the finish, not the stinger.
Danielplainview, If you will describe the other markings on the pipe, someone will probably be able to give you an estimate of the pipe's age. The number on the stinger does not tell me enough to declare the pipe pre- or post-war.
Sablebrush52, I, too, am a fan of English AND Kaywoodie pipes. (A few months back you gave me advice on a Barling.) The quality of early KB&B briar is what drew me to Kaywoodie pipes. I also like the specificity of old Kaywoodie pipe stampings, catalogs, and advertisements regarding the source of briar in different pipe lines. Perhaps we should be grateful to the poseurs - were it not for them we would be paying more for Kaywoodies.
Rsuniv, Those are some great old Kaywoodies. I bet that Thorn Author is a sweet smoker.
Misterlowercase, I agree with your assessment of Kaywoodie Relief Grain pipes. Even into the era of three-hole stingers, excellent specimens abound.
Docwatson, Thanks for clearing up Kaywoodie sandblasting techniques. I have wondered about their process but never found much information.

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
1,867
14
Rsuniv, The blast on your military mount Relief Grain is much better than I have seen on other military mount Relief Grains. Military mount Kaywoodie pipes are a mystery to me. Given their stampings, I wonder if they were a Korean or Vietnam war-era PX pipe. Perhaps Kaywoodie's answer to Dr. Grabow's Willard pipes?...

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
1,867
14
Those of us discussing this topic seem to be fairly interested in KB&B/Kaywoodie sandblasted pipes. Does anyone know of a good existing thread on the subject of these pipes?

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
1,867
14
Rsuniv, Now that you mention it, the construction of those pouches makes me think these were Vietnam War-era pipes.

 

buroak

Lifer
Jul 29, 2014
1,867
14
rsuniv, I am just glad that this thread generated some discussion. I was afraid that this topic was too nerd-ish for even a forum populated with pipe smokers.

 
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