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Am I Being Unreasonable?

(53 posts)
  • Started 11 months ago by anthony416
  • Latest reply from seacaptain
  1. anthony416

    anthony416

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    I ordered a pipe from one of the main online retailers and wanted to take advantage of the Buy a pipe get a tin free.

    I purchased an unsmoked Savinelli Autograph from the estate section and was then told that the promotion did not apply to estate pipes. There was nothing to say it did not apply to estate pipes and actually in the total pipes shown to choose from, all the estate Sainelli pipes were included in the total.

    Further thoughts;

    I paid several times the price for the estate Autograph than some of the Savinelli pipes that were supposedly included in the promotion.

    I have been a customer for 9 years with them and have several of the "Badges" including VIP customer

    Posted 11 months ago #
  2. floridapipeman

    floridapipeman

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    Stick to your guns, push the issue and talk to management.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  3. daveinlax

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    I just assume promotions are for new pipes but they might give you a tin to make your issue go away. They just had a 15% off estate sale that was about as good as that gets for estate pipes from them.

    Posted 11 months ago #
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    elpfeife

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    Sometime back at a similar promotion I put an estate Sav in my cart but didn't get the free tin. E-mailed and asked why not. Was told it was only for new pipe purchases. Not a big deal to me.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  5. warren

    warren

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    Perhaps.

    A man without a shillelagh is a man without an expedient.
    Posted 11 months ago #
  6. hoosierpipeguy

    hoosierpipeguy

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    If you don't you identify the online retailer? If you want to call someone out, call them out. If not, why all the cloak and dagger stuff?

    Posted 11 months ago #
  7. warren

    warren

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    Cloak and dagger? Espionage? Seems some members readily identified the vendor.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  8. chasingembers

    Embers

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    Yeah, that buy one get one told us who it is.

    Damnation seize my soul if I give you quarters, or take any from you.
    -Edward Teach
    Posted 11 months ago #
  9. hoosierpipeguy

    hoosierpipeguy

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    Cloak and dagger? Espionage? Seems some members readily identified the vendor.

    Yeah, that buy one get one told us who it is

    I don't pay much attention to those type of sales so it didn't tell me anything. But your comments point to why the OP should name the vendor anyway.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  10. mso489

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    I'd strongly suggest to the retailer that they must state the exception on estate pipes clearly up front. They may or may not send you a free tin for customer relations, but I would hope they would take the suggestion and just state, in the future, it's a free tin with any new pipe, that's new pipe. If it is in legible print, up front, with the offer, there can be no argument, no disappointment, no hassle. I don't mind whatever the limits on the deal, but it must be made clear.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  11. olkofri

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    Problem I saw with the vendor is that they didn't include a disclaimer stating that the promo applied only to brand new. Even a small print disclaimer such as "*Restrictions apply" woulda been useful. When I clicked on their ad it took me directly to their Savinelli listings. Granted, the listing listed only new pipes, but I think a small disclaimer would avoid both vendor and buyer headaches and money loss.

    Not the sweet, new grass with flowers is this harvesting of mine;
    Not the upland clover bloom...
    Posted 11 months ago #
  12. lochinvar

    lochinvar

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    I remember the promotion and when I clicked the link in the email, it took me to the New Savinelli section. I took it for granted Estates were not included, as they are usually treated as a subject to their own separate promotions.
    Keep pushing they may send you a free tin, but I don't think they owe it.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  13. anthony416

    anthony416

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    1) No cloak and dagger, I posted a screen shot, from there it is a no brainer........

    2) Clicking the promotion shows the number of pipes available AND it included the estate numbers. Then there is the fact that there are no fine print exclusions or any conditions at all for that matter.

    Thank you all for the feedback. Not a big deal really but it amazes me how much companies spend on advertising and then this type of situation rises and undermines their efforts.They made no mention of conditions but then say not included, how is anyone to know?

    Posted 11 months ago #
  14. johnbarleycorn

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    Normally with a buy one get something free offer don’t you get to pick your free gift before or at least during the purchase? And if you were surprised by not getting the option of free gift can you not return the pipe? I really don’t get the beef here. I don’t think it was a personal slight and if it bothers you just send it back.

    And little Sir John and the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last
    Posted 11 months ago #
  15. hoosierpipeguy

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    I can't read the promotion sticker you posted. Regardless, seems like they should stand up and make good on their promotion, even if it was a mistake. Especially with you being a long standing Customer. I guess right now, most of the big guys can't get enough to sell so they're not worried about losing a Customer. I would certainly be concerned about losing a long time and loyal Customer. Poor business.

    Okay, I couldn't stand it, I checked the site and see it is SmokingPipes. Switch your business to TobaccoPipes.com. They're the best guys I've dealt with by a far margin. If they consistently had everything I was wanting, they'd be the only one I'd buy from.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  16. carolinachurchwarden

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    Normally with a buy one get something free offer don’t you get to pick your free gift before or at least during the purchase?

    Yes, the promotion allows you to choose your free tin after you add the pipe to your cart. I checked it again yesterday. Added a new pipe to the cart, option for a free tin. Added an estate, no option for a free tin. I would agree that a disclaimer or something could be used, but if I throw an estate pipe in the basket and don't see the option for a free tin, then okay, I'll just scrap that one, and keep trying to get a pipe in there that I got the free tin with, if that's what I was after and wanting.

    "If you can't send money, send tobacco." - George Washington

    Posted 11 months ago #
  17. perdurabo

    perdurabo

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    The short answer, No.

    The VIP Badges give away who the vendor is. With this particular vendor I would push the issue. They’ve been known to be extremely accommodating. Hell reveal the vendor name and I bet one of the representatives will post and explain the reasonings behind the confusion.

    It's not my position nor want to help another man. It's his responsibility to help himself, as where he can learn to dig down deep enough to save himself. -I. Kidd
    Posted 11 months ago #
  18. perdurabo

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    But then again it’s a tin of tobacco. I thought free tobacco/samples were illegal.

    Posted 11 months ago #
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    bigpond

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    Yeah, dude, you’re being unreasonable imo. SPC will take the pipe back unsmoked if you are unstaisfied and they won’t even give you a hard time about it. Mistakes happen, it’s no biggie. SPC is a Sav distributor, which is why they can offer a package deal for new products,

    Posted 11 months ago #
  20. folanator

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    I personally see a difference between new and used inventory, and would never expect the same "deal" for a used pipe as opposed to new. But that's me...

    Posted 11 months ago #
  21. cstanion

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    My name is Chuck and I work for Smokingpipes as the managing editor, so I'm responsible for the poor wording of that promotional material. A previous draft included the specification of a new Savinelli but it somehow got lost in the revision process. My mistake. Not the first or last I'll make. I could amuse you with some of my larger mistakes, but I'm trying to maintain some self-esteem before a meeting today, so maybe another time.

    Anyway, many apologies. You're right and we should have been more clear with that message. We will certainly honor the offer, though. Just give us a call and tell customer service that Chuck says it's OK and they'll send you a tin of Savinelli tobacco at no charge. I truly am sorry you went through all that, and all because I wasn't paying close enough attention. My apologies.

    Best regards,
    Chuck Stanion

    Posted 11 months ago #
  22. carolinachurchwarden

    carolinachurchwarden

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    Now that's customer service if I've never seen it before. Not very often you see someone provide that kind of service and answer this day and age. Even though I trust in SP's reputation and would always consider them as a prime shop for my smoking wants and needs, this really makes me want to do even more of my online shopping through SP's.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  23. cstanion

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    One new wrinkle--just found that we can't send just tobacco, because a free tin has to be shipped with another product, as a value-added thing. The red tape and legal issues will drive you nuts. But next time you order something, we'll be happy to include that tin. We'll get it to you one way or another.

    Chuck

    Posted 11 months ago #
  24. perdurabo

    perdurabo

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    Gotcha Chuck.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  25. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    Actually, you're not being unreasonable. The smoking gun here (see how I got that in? :D) is the absence of exceptions in the promotional copy. "Implied" anything is rubbish. If there are exceptions to the promotion and they are not explicitly enumerated in the ad copy, they do not exist. That's the law. It's called "truth in advertising" law and it's why you no longer see all sorts of wild, phony, and occasionally life threatening claims in ads. It's also very amusing to see how advertisers work around the law's edges to continue to deliver misleading information to a gullible public. Having worked on hundreds of commercials I've seen this up front and personal. So if there are no explicit exceptions listed in the ad copy, you're entitled to that damned tin and you have every moral right to storm the Bastille and demand your just reward from these abusive crooks.

    Ahh, I see that while I was having fun typing this up, the issue was resolved. Good! Back to breakfast.

    It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain

    It is pointless to argue with a fanatic since a dim bulb can't be converted into a searchlight. - Jesse Silver
    Posted 11 months ago #
  26. perdurabo

    perdurabo

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    See that was extremely easy. That’s why Smokingpipes.com is the best in the business.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  27. perdurabo

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    Great point Sable.

    Hence if I buy a product that claims to improve blood flow and help with an erection, but my dingus falls off instead, I can sue for false advertising.

    Sorry you asked for it

    Posted 11 months ago #
  28. thomasw

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    Smokingpipes rocks

    After some time he felt for his pipe. It was not broken, and that was something. Then he felt for his pouch, and there was some tobacco in it, and that was something more. Then he felt for matches and he could not find any at all, and that shattered his hopes completely.

    The Hobbit
    Posted 11 months ago #
  29. sablebrush52

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    Great point Sable.

    Hence if I buy a product that claims to improve blood flow and help with an erection, but my dingus falls off instead, I can sue for false advertising.

    Sorry you asked for it

    Absolutely, though you might have to show that your dingus was any kind of working order in the first place.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  30. perdurabo

    perdurabo

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    True

    Posted 11 months ago #
  31. folanator

    folanator

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    Whats amusing is people expecting a small B&M to have a team of lawyers reviewing ad copy. No wonder people want to get out of the biz...jeez.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  32. sablebrush52

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    Whats amusing is people expecting a small B&M to have a team of lawyers reviewing ad copy. No wonder people want to get out of the biz...jeez.

    A small B&M that owns an iconic pipe maker, the exclusive US distribution rights to another, as well as a well known maker blending a large array of pipe tobaccos. What small B&M would that be? It's not that difficult, just be straight with your customers and you have no worries.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  33. folanator

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    I am failing to see where the vendor isn't being straight. Seems obvious (to me) that there is a difference between new and used inventory. Would you expect $$$ back on a used car just becasue a dealer has dealer-incentive on new inventory? Margins, return policies all may be different new v pre-owned.

    I may have (prior to purchase) inquired if the same deal would apply to used pipes, but I certainly would not assume that would be the case. I know the customer is always right, it's just sometimes they aren't.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  34. shaneireland

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    Guys,

    I'll echo Chuck here and say that we usually do have a disclaimer (we've been running these sort of promotions for years), and it just slipped through this time. I looked at these images as well and neglected to catch the error, but we're updating the images now to avoid any confusion during the last few days of the promotion.

    Chuck is also right about the red tape, but I don't want anthony416 to have to wait until his next order to get the tin. If you let me know which one you'd like, I'll get it shipped out on me.

    Shane Ireland
    Director & Pipe Manager
    Smokingpipes.com

    Posted 11 months ago #
  35. crashthegrey

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    Multiple errors, multiple apologies, and everything fixed. What a great retailer. Seriously, this is a company worth supporting, in my opinion.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  36. sablebrush52

    sablebrush52

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    I am failing to see where the vendor isn't being straight. Seems obvious (to me) that there is a difference between new and used inventory. Would you expect $$$ back on a used car just becasue a dealer has dealer-incentive on new inventory? Margins, return policies all may be different new v pre-owned.

    If you offer a promotion on cars, then it's a promotion on cars, whether they are new or used. If you offer a promotion on used cars, then it's a promotion on used cars. If its' a promotion of new cars then it's a promotion on new cars. The expectation that someone will somehow read your mind and guess what limitations you intended but failed to mention is absurd. It's also the lame excuse often used by those attempting to commit a fraud.

    The vendor has made good by honoring its promotion as written. They're a stand up group.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  37. woodsroad

    woodsroad

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    Kudos to Smokingpipes and Chuck. Those of you who read fine print (seems to be about half of us) will recognize Chuck from the masthead of Pipes and Tobacco magazine, where he held the editorial bar high above par for many years.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  38. carolinachurchwarden

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    If you offer a promotion on cars, then it's a promotion on cars, whether they are new or used. If you offer a promotion on used cars, then it's a promotion on used cars. If its' a promotion of new cars then it's a promotion on new cars. The expectation that someone will somehow read your mind and guess what limitations you intended but failed to mention is absurd. It's also the lame excuse often used by those attempting to commit a fraud.

    Exactly! Just because a few people may read between the lines and think it's obvious, doesn't mean that to others. It would have to be an assumption one way or the other. Looking plainly at the original ad, I'd have thought in my mind, "Buy a Savinelli, get a free tin". Doesn't matter if it's an estate or new. An estate Sav is still a Sav even though it's not new. It's on the seller to create the disclaimer's that specifically detail what the offer does or doesn't cover. Kudos to the folks at SP's for remedying the situation. Just makes me want to shop there even more, knowing what they'll do to make a customer satisfied.

    Posted 11 months ago #
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    bigpond

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    Standards of reasonableness are open to interpretation and I would argue that your average pipe shopper at spc would expect this promotion to apply to new pipes rather than all pipes. Not every shopper is average or reasonable, hence the dilemma. In fact, SPC has run this promotion without exclusionary copy at least once before. I purchased my one and only sav during such and wondered at the time if I could “game the system” for a few bucks. I thought the better of it and paid the extra $15 for a new pipe. This doesn’t reflect on the op, just to be clear.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  40. woodsroad

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    If you put the pipe in your cart, and you don't see a free tin, then to me that would mean that you aren't getting a free tin.

    But maybe that's just me.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  41. pepesdad1

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    "Multiple errors, multiple apologies, and everything fixed. What a great retailer. Seriously, this is a company worth supporting, in my opinion."

    "The vendor has made good by honoring its promotion as written. They're a stand up group."

    Yup, Smokingpipes.com rocks and has my business (small, that it may be).

    Posted 11 months ago #
  42. tslex

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    When I read the OP I knew EXACTLY how this was going to turn out. Smoking Pipes dot com is, in my experience, the very best player on the scene. The entire Laudisi empire is dedicated to pipe and the ethos of customer service and fair play is evident in everything they do.

    I have never had an interaction with any of their arms -- online, at the shop in SC -- that wasn't more than satisfactory. more than that, the company is GOOD for pipe smoking writ large. (As their thoughtful acquisition of Peterson demonstrates.)

    Bravo Zulu, SPC!!

    Posted 11 months ago #
  43. folanator

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    Handled as it should have been handled and shows just how small a community it is when "the" guy comes on to make it right. Really there is no other option but to accommodate.

    I also do 95% of my shopping with them and have been impressed with their operation.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  44. anthony416

    anthony416

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    Thank you everybody for your comments. When posting I did want to see if I was being unreasonable or not and there were a mix of opinions and I took on board both sides of the argument since I was open to being deemed unreasonable if it swung that way.

    Also a big thanks to Chuck and Shane for helping here, in the big picture one tin of tobacco is not significant, it was more the principle at the core of the issue. I guess when I originally did contact the customer service department, they should have explained why the estates were not included and I had hoped they could point to a disclaimer rather than just say no, does not apply but you got a good deal anyway. They should have at least given you guys a heads up so you could have added the disclaimer while the promotion was still live.

    Many thanks to all!

    Posted 11 months ago #
  45. cohibajoe

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    Excellent ending and my #1 place for my Pipe goodies.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  46. bnichols23

    Bill Nichols

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    I'm with crash, ccw, 'lex, & 'joe. We all make mistakes, & usually don't even notice it till somebody grumps. SPC is amazing, period, & rightly deserves their stellar rep. If I weren't already a VERY satisfied repeat customer, the prompt & 115% customer-friendly attitude exhibited would be more than enough to turn me into one.

    Head Black Frigate keelhauler, boss powder monkey, & troublemaker 1st class.
    Posted 11 months ago #
  47. kola

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    Whaaa ??? Another happy ending ? Dang, I need a forum with more cowbell drama !!!!!

    I treat people the way they treat me. It's that simple.
    Posted 11 months ago #
  48. woodsroad

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    Was there a free tin in your cart? No.
    So then, did you get a free tin with your order? No.

    Seems like an awful lot of effort here just to shame SP out of free stuff.

    Just my opinion.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  49. carolinachurchwarden

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    If you go to a store because of a 20% sale for items, but then are told items you have are not covered, even though there's nothing in the advertisement about certain items not being included, wouldn't you complain about it? I know I would and have before. It's not right and you could be accused of false advertising. Just because it's not included when added to the cart, doesn't mean it wasn't supposed to be and it was just a mistake. Never hurts to ask, and if I'm going to buy something only for the reason of a deal, and they don't give it to me, I'm asking somebody why, especially if it could even be remotely possible that something slipped through the cracks on their end. Just how I've always thought of it.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  50. mrenglish

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    SPC showed what a class act they are on the way they handled this. Like Forn, I do most of my business with SPC and since they opened, I have only had one issue and it was the carriers fault, not SPC. They followed through and I had my pipe the next day.

    Michael
    Posted 11 months ago #
  51. mawnansmiff

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    Maybe this is why pipe and tobacco retailers here in the UK don't ever make such offers.

    Regards,

    Jay.

    ...take up thy stethoscope and walk...
    Posted 11 months ago #
  52. voorhees

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    Smokingpipes is awesome. Free tins or not. Nice job.

    Jason
    Posted 11 months ago #
  53. seacaptain

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    When I read the OP I knew EXACTLY how this was going to turn out. Smoking Pipes dot com is, in my experience, the very best player on the scene.

    Agreed. They worked out a pipe issue for me that was partially my fault. If they would have said "no", I would have understood but they went out of their way to fix the issue.

    They're the best and that's why they get 90% of my pipe/tobacco business.

    Posted 11 months ago #

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