Why Savinelli?
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Maybe in theory, but in functional practice, my Savinelli smokes great without the filter. I have an adapter in it, and is their intention not to resolve the problem you're talking about?
@northernneil- the way I look at it, which is probably ass-backward, is this: the pipe was "engineered" to be used with the balsa filter, and to work properly with the balsa filter. If you don't like the filter, they provide an adapter, but, as far as I know, make no claim that the pipe was engineered to work as well that way. If you smoke the pipe with nothing installed and it works well, it's a bonus. If you smoke the pipe with nothing installed and it doesn't work right, well, it clearly wasn't designed as an unfiltered pipe, so it's hard to claim bad engineering. To me it's kind of like trying to go rock-crawling with a family sedan. If it works, great. If not, it's hard to fault bad engineering on the sedan's part.
Here are some articles partially discussing mortise and tenon gap issues.
Ronni Bikacsan
GL Pease
Talking Tobacco
The Birdseye Review
These articles discuss many aspects of pipe engineering, but they all tend to agree that a gap between the mortise and tenon will generate excess moisture. As for reverse calabash designs, that is different than a gap as the air chamber is substantially larger than a normal pipe by design.
Ronni Bikacsan
GL Pease
Talking Tobacco
The Birdseye Review
These articles discuss many aspects of pipe engineering, but they all tend to agree that a gap between the mortise and tenon will generate excess moisture. As for reverse calabash designs, that is different than a gap as the air chamber is substantially larger than a normal pipe by design.
aldercaker, I agree completely with your statement. Thus my question; when so many of our members do not like filters; why then do they proceed to recommend Savinelli?
Seems awfully academic - which is fine. I'm a fan of minutia, generally. But, allowing those academic arguments to discourage someone from buying a pipe that's proven its value and functionality over time seems misguided to me.
I haven't smoked every Savinelli, but the one I own and smoke (with an adapter) never smokes hot or gurgles on me. That practical experience is good enough for me.
I haven't smoked every Savinelli, but the one I own and smoke (with an adapter) never smokes hot or gurgles on me. That practical experience is good enough for me.
In my case? Because my Savinelli 673KS family sedan is one hell of a good rock crawler! (I do freely admit I prefer it with the balsas.) I've owned unfiltered pipes of a similar price point that smoke worse as-designed than my Sav smokes with nothing installed.
Beyond that, they just have some smashingly good looking pipes.
If I were a newbie with $100 to spend and someone gave me Savinelli's catalogue, I'd be sure to find something I liked. The fact that they operate so well, filter, no filter, adapter, whatever, is nice too.
I don't think new smokers are AS concerned with engineering nuances, but since they don't seem to be a practical problem anyway - that's a bonus.
If I were a newbie with $100 to spend and someone gave me Savinelli's catalogue, I'd be sure to find something I liked. The fact that they operate so well, filter, no filter, adapter, whatever, is nice too.
I don't think new smokers are AS concerned with engineering nuances, but since they don't seem to be a practical problem anyway - that's a bonus.
Same thing can be said for a cob. The filter really doesn't do anything but absorb moisture. The cavernous tenon and mortise are still there.
...and I've never been frustrated with the engineering of my cob.
I got one to gurgle last night though, for the first time ever! To be fair, it was gurgling inside the churchwarden stem itself, not the chamber - but it was very odd to hear that from a cob. I was awful confused for a second!
I got one to gurgle last night though, for the first time ever! To be fair, it was gurgling inside the churchwarden stem itself, not the chamber - but it was very odd to hear that from a cob. I was awful confused for a second!
I've had the same thing happen with a standard-sized Forever Stem on a cob. There's just no replacing that wide-open straight pipe of a stock MM stem. Oddly enough, I've never had it happen (yet) with a Forever nosewarmer stem, even though the ID is the same as the standard length.
My very first pipe was a Brebbia bent billiard - I guess 15 years ago. It somehow didn't end up with me after the dozen moves I had in the Air Force. Disappointing.
You've got that almost completely backwards.
People put way too much emphasis on curing. The block cutters cure the Briar, that's all it needs, you can read about modern artisans using fresh Briar with rave reviews. Curing is one of the most hotly debated aspects of pipemaking.
When you're talking about the aerodynamic effects of airflow, I doubt there's any practical difference between having 20mm of space or 5mm of space in the shank, as most filterless pipes do. Either way you're dealing with a lot of turbulance from the transition from shank to stem and the entrance in the stem needs to be chamfered properly, that's pretty much universal no matter what happens before the air hits the stem.
On most pipes I've seen (around 20 Briars so far), that step isn't done (and Missouri Meerschaum plastic stems are nearly technically perfect). I usually take a large drill bit and spin it with my fingers to round out the airway entrance a little, it's the same process whether deep inside a 9mm filet slot or right on the end of a filterless tenon.
So many pipes have mismatched airways between the shank and stem (basically any pipe with any amount of bend) that I'd bet you're just as well off having a large buffer space as a small one. I'm temped to say that an empty filter slot is aeroynamically superior, but I haven't seen any pipes tested in a wind tunnel.
Savinelli gets constant recommendation because they have good QC and are readily available at affordable prices. I actually have three Brebbia pipes now and they're all fantastic, but they're not affordable unless you buy from overseas. Local dealers seem to charge a premium for most brands just because of distribution methods.
Many brands have good engineering, but Savinelli is set up for mass distribution in the U.S.
I never used a filter or adapter on any filtered Sav I ever owned. I recommend Sav because for the money(100.00 or less) I don't believe there is a better factory pipe. They smoke cool and dry and are as consistent as you can get. The shank dimensions are normally around 4.0-4.5mm and for me that means a nice open draw which translates into a nice dry smoke.
My first pipe was a Sav(I still own it) and it is one hell of a smoker. It has smoked cool and dry since day one and I bought it in 1997. I did buy a higher grade Sav(Linea Piu 5) which retailed for 150.00(I paid 120 as my buddy owned the shop) and I had a great pipe from the get go which gave me a baseline in which to compare what a good smoker is and what it is not. I knew when a pipe smoked wet or hot and was able to get rid of pipes that did not compare to my Sav. I think it is very important for a new smoker to have a good pipe in the beginning. If you buy something cheap and it smokes wet, that is all you will know. You will think pipes are supposed to gurgle and you will have to use a dozen pipe cleaners while smoking. A pipe that gurgles will ruin the taste of your tobacco. A pipe that burns hot will also ruin the taste of your tobacco. You want a pipe that enhances the taste of your tobacco, not ruin it.
My first pipe was a Sav(I still own it) and it is one hell of a smoker. It has smoked cool and dry since day one and I bought it in 1997. I did buy a higher grade Sav(Linea Piu 5) which retailed for 150.00(I paid 120 as my buddy owned the shop) and I had a great pipe from the get go which gave me a baseline in which to compare what a good smoker is and what it is not. I knew when a pipe smoked wet or hot and was able to get rid of pipes that did not compare to my Sav. I think it is very important for a new smoker to have a good pipe in the beginning. If you buy something cheap and it smokes wet, that is all you will know. You will think pipes are supposed to gurgle and you will have to use a dozen pipe cleaners while smoking. A pipe that gurgles will ruin the taste of your tobacco. A pipe that burns hot will also ruin the taste of your tobacco. You want a pipe that enhances the taste of your tobacco, not ruin it.
I have 5 Sav's and none have a filter, all are older than me and smoke great,however I dont recommend just Sav, if I make a recommendation, either pipe or tobacco I will usaly mention 3 or 4 brands and let the person decide for them self. Now if anyone asks me if they should try a Savinelli pipe, then I would say absolutely
My Savs do not have filters. Over a dozen in my collection and not one bad smoker.
I'd recommend a Savinelli for anyone's first purchase.
I'd recommend a Savinelli for anyone's first purchase.
I would expect "perfect engineering" on a high end expensive pipe just out of general principal, weather it effected the smoking characteristics or not. However, on an $80-$120 pipe, my only requirement would be that it's a good smoker. Every Savinelli (filtered or not) that I've ever owned is an exceptional smoker.
I agree, in the lower price range, I would not expect "perfect engineering." However, there are many pipes in that price range that do not have the gap between the mortise and tenon. Some examples would be Luciano, Stanwell, Sebastian Beo and Ropp; just to name a few. And in my experience, these pipes smoke better then my Savinelli's.
Nonetheless, if so many people see Savinelli as being exceptional smokers, it is hard to argue with that!
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