What Aged Virginia Blends Are Available?

[pitchfork]

"Whoever said that is a moron."
I had to double check to make sure that I wasn't the one who said that, ha ha.

Nice!
Well, I guess I'm yer Huckleberry. Of the aged VAs I've had, I don't notice much improvement at all beyond about 10 years of age (maybe that's on me). By that point, at least to my tastebuds, VAs taste super sweet in that dried dark fruits kind of way. And the good ones (like Christmas Cheer) develop some incredible baking spice flavors. But all of that seems to be there by 10 years or so and I haven't noticed much difference in tobaccos older than that, say 15-20 years of age.

 

[cigrmaster]

I think that blends like VA, Vaper, Vabur flakes age incredibly well. I have not smoked 20 year old flakes, but the 14 or 15 year old ones are damn tasty. I love Escudo with ten years plus, Fribourg & Treyer Cut Virginia Plug is amazing with 11 years. It is also quite tasty at 4 years. I have never smoked a blend that was not awesome at ten years or more. I think 20 years would be the max. I will find out next year when I crack a 100 gram tin of Orlik Dark Stong Kentucky. I smoked a 15 year old tin in 2012 and it was subline, not sure what an extra 5 years will do but it should be fun finding out.
I believe Jesse is right when he says the laws of diminishing returns applies to aging certain blends. Pretty much everyone agrees that English blends lose something the longer they are aged as does aromatics. If you want to age for a long time, flakes are the way to go, and you heard it from me, that makes it an indisputable fact. heheheh

 

[cosmicfolklore]

This as Jim's review of the aged Capstan project.

And, this was the results of others.
You know, the fun part is exploring for yourself. Let your own tongue be your guide and enjoy yourself. I love reading reviews, thinking about things like this, and actually tasting them for myself. Pipe club meeting we share old tins, you can find them online. Pipe shows will have folks sharing old blends. Some things may not be great with age. Some things may be wonderful. Personally, I really like the effects of age on latakias, because I find most fresh latakia blends to be way to harsh. It all just depends on what you like.

 

[sablebrush52]

See, ha ha. Many other people who tried it was astounded by the flavor.

I was astounded by the flavor. It was vile. Unfortunately (in this instance) I have a really sensitive palate. BTW, I wasn't the only one who found that particular weed utterly vile.
One of the strongest aspects of this hobby is the power of suggestion.
When someone has patiently waited by the side of their beloved tin, for years and years, watching the clock, refusing to leave their tin's side, they may be forgiven for not accepting that the object of their obsession has turned to shit. So they will smoke that shit and proclaim it to be the most divine experience of their lives.

 

[pitchfork]

Personally, I really like the effects of age on latakias, because I find most fresh latakia blends to be way to harsh.

Same here. I'm not a big Latakia fan anyway, but misterlowercase sent me a sample a while back of some old, dried out and rehydrated Balkan Sobranie and it was out of this world, faded Latakia notwithstanding.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

that particular weed utterly vile.

Funny, when I reread your critique of the capstan, I didn't pick up on any vileness reported. Here
I think you're just countering me to rile me up.

Sable wrote - "Faded or not, there were some nice flavors to be enjoyed, and deeply appreciated..." Hmmm, no mention of vileness of any sort. Funny how we remember things so differently.

 

[jpmcwjr]

About tins with no date codes, I don't get it. It seems that there is no downside. Who would not want an 'old' tobacco?

Probably the 90% plus who smoke pipes and prefer aromatics, few, if any, who inhabit this board.

 

[sablebrush52]

Here's what I wrote:
As with the other bowls, the first impression was a nutty flavor, surrounded with some floral notes and mushroom earthy mustiness. About half way through the bowl, the other flavors faded and the earthiness predominated. Occasionally the nuttiness and a bit of citrus rose up out of the earthiness.

With all the bowls, the tobacco exhibited a level of harshness if not smoked very slowly. This is a characteristic that the 1938 vintage shares with its younger siblings. If smoked very slowly it delivered some nice flavors. But if it got at all hot, all it offered was an ashy taste. Letting the tobacco percolate one got some very nice notes that are not readily found in the younger versions. It also lacked the pepperiness of fresh Capstan, which was a plus. I didn't experience any particular fruitiness, plum, or raisin. Whether this is because the tobacco had sat for an extra couple of days in its baggie before being smoked is an unanswered question. Superannuated tobaccos are very delicate and fade with astonishing speed.
I don't have a pathological need to be insulting, so I put a bit of spin on it.
Substitute dirt for "earthiness". The nutty flavor, which in one bowl reminded me of Macadamia nuts, lasted a moment followed by the fungal flavor of mushrooms and dirt. Essentially by mid bowl it was nothing but dirt.
I worked to get something that wasn't really bad, by super slow smoking. And I didn't insult my benefactors by declaring it vile, even though I found it so. But it's interesting to see read of the other reviewers, a few of whom contacted me in private and said they really didn't enjoy it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

You're cracking me up, Sable. I love it. So, you hate smoking old tobaccos, and people contact you in secret to relay that they do too. I love it! Ha ha!
Yes, yes, it's a secret society of pipe smokers that want you guys to all age your tobaccos till it's vile, while we all laugh and laugh...
So, don't age your tobaccos, don't smoke any with age on it. That's only good for me, more old vile stuff for me, muah ha ha!!
I'm deeply grateful to everyone on this forum that has allowed me to taste the wonders of very well aged 20+ year old tobaccos. We have generous souls on here that have given me wonderful opportunities to try very old blends.

But, if anyone here should find really old blends vile, and you want to get rid of them, I would be glad to pay postage and handling to have it sent to me. I will even redistribute it to those who would also like to sample some.

And, to everyone else, if you hang around long enough on this forum and show an interest you might also get the wonderful opportunity to try some 20+ blends. This is part of what makes this forum so awesome.

 

[jackswilling]

C&D says 10 to 15 years on their Cellar Series. I am hitting my cellar at 5 years and onward. Hoping it lasts 20 plus years.

 

[sablebrush52]

You're cracking me up, Sable. I love it. So, you hate smoking old tobaccos, and people contact you in secret to relay that they do too. I love it! Ha ha!

Never said that I hate smoking older tobaccos, evidently you can't read. Some tobaccos age beautifully, but not all, and not forever.

Yes, yes, it's a secret society of pipe smokers that want you guys to all age your tobaccos till it's vile, while we all laugh and laugh...

Never said that either, but happy to know that the whole world laughs with you.

So, don't age your tobaccos, don't smoke any with age on it. That's only good for me, more old vile stuff for me, muah ha ha!!

Didn't say that either.
Lots of things I didn't say being attributed to me by you. Interesting.

I'm deeply grateful to everyone on this forum that has allowed me to taste the wonders of very well aged 20+ year old tobaccos. We have generous souls on here that have given me wonderful opportunities to try very old blends.

I'm with you an that.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

...in the same way you misused what I was trying to say into an absolute as well. "Just as I was not saying that there were no benefits before 20 years." But, mine was just for humor (amusement), not so much to prove a point.
No, I think that we would both agree that tastes are different. It just caught me off guard that you said that you didn't like any of the over 20 year tobaccos. Because I had remembered participating with you on that taste thing. You hid that you didn't like it at all very damn well. You sneaky bugger. :wink:

 

[sablebrush52]

Same here. I'm not a big Latakia fan anyway, but misterlowercase sent me a sample a while back of some old, dried out and rehydrated Balkan Sobranie and it was out of this world, faded Latakia notwithstanding.

I get that, but I wonder if smoking blends with less Latakia content wouldn't work as well without having to wait a gazillion years, or spending a gazillion bucks on an old tin.
When Sobrainie was producing their blends they had a clear idea regarding what they were offering. After a few decades it's not what it was.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Aging tobaccos was a complete freak of production. There's no exact science to any of it. Tobacco all goes through three sweats before it is fully cured, and sometimes aged two m ore years before being used in production, sometimes farmers will set on a crop for years waiting on prices to go up or saving up for a larger bankroll at one time. Then when it's tinned, some vacuum the air out, some add air, it's all inconsistent. And, intentional aging of tobaccos is a game of risk. While I have not personally tasted a blend that went bad, I will acknowledge that it is a possibility. Turning vile? I have to wonder what that even means. I conjure up tastes of Lakelands swamped in grandma soap. Besides a Lakeland, I've never tastes a vile tobacco. But, sure, maybe it's a possibility. However if that Capstan was vile, I want to swim in a sea of that sweet gorgeous smoky vileness... naked.
But, yes, every manufacturer will say that their product is ready to smoke right away. And, if you don't like it fresh, you probably shouldn't waste time and money on aging it. But, with potential for price changes, my getting very damn close to retirement budget, possibilities of tobacco being restricted from being able to use the mail, or just some sort of anti-smoking apocalypse, there are plenty of reasons to set tobacco back. Aging it, is just the freaky side effects of this.
Smoke it now, a year, 2, 4, 8, 20, whatever you want. Explore the tastes. Try new things. I am a butterfly pipe smoker, lighting on this taste for now, then fluttering over to that one. I live for the experience.

 

[pitchfork]

I get that, but I wonder if smoking blends with less Latakia content wouldn't work as well without having to wait a gazillion years, or spending a gazillion bucks on an old tin.

Definitely so. As it happens, my favorite Latakia blends are Early Morning Pipe, MM 965 and Chelsea Morning.

When Sobrainie was producing their blends they had a clear idea regarding what they were offering. After a few decades it's not what it was.

I don't know what version of Balkan Sobranie I was smoking, but what I loved was the casing in the background, combined with whatever Orientals were used. It had a kind of mouth-filling flavor I've never gotten from any other blend.

 

[sablebrush52]

It's nice to have a few years on the tin, but I would hesitate to brag about even 12 years. What I have noticed is that about 20 years is the magic number to really knock your tastebuds for a loop.
...in the same way you misused what I was trying to say into an absolute as well.

The first part of this reads like a definitive statement. 20 years is the magic number.
My response:

It's a personal thing, but you can get the benefit in far less than 20 years.

That's my experience. The 15 year old Haddo's I'm enjoying right now is as satisfying as smoke as I could ask for. But it's not exponentially better than 7 or 8 year old Haddo's. And I have a few tins that will keep for a few more years, assuming I'm around to smoke them.
With methuselah tobaccos, 35-100 years of age, my experience of the roughly 40 samples I've had has been largely disappointing. There have been a few pleasurable experiences, but nothing that knocked my socks off. Tobacco is a natural product, like wine, like me, etc, and it matures, peaks, and fizzles.
With these very old tins, there are other factors that can be at work, such as how the tin was stored all those years. Also, really old tobaccos curl up and die pretty rapidly once they hit fresh oxygen. And I allowed that the extra couple of days that my sample waited before I could smoke it might have been a factor in why it was not wonderful. But the overall experience, mustiness, reduced flavors, was in keeping with most of the ancient stuff that I've been privileged to try.
Despite past disappointments, I'm always happy and grateful when the opportunity presents itself because I'm always hopeful that the magic will hit. I'm also happy that I haven't spent $200, $300, or way more on a tin of ancient weed.
I've got plenty stocked away and it's going to sit for years. In the meantime I have plenty that I can enjoy right now. If you're still young enough, buy and hold. There are benefits. I just don't see that you have to wait until you're in a rocking chair, wearing depends, to enjoy them.

 

[hawky454]

One of the strongest aspects of this hobby is the power of suggestion.
When someone has patiently waited by the side of their beloved tin, for years and years, watching the clock, refusing to leave their tin's side, they may be forgiven for not accepting that the object of their obsession has turned to shit. So they will smoke that shit and proclaim it to be the most divine experience of their lives.

Exactly. This is what I was trying to articulate in the other thread on aging tobaccos. You said it very well. The power of suggestion is indeed powerful! What I don't understand is why people get so upset when someone speaks ill of aging. no biggie, we just don't see eye to eye on things but it's always good for discussion to disagree. If we all agreed on shit, this would be one boring forum.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

If we all agreed on shit, this would be one boring forum.

Bingo, I couldn't agree more.

As I said before, I'd be in my late 70-80's before anything of mine gets to be 20 years old, and men just don't live that long in my family. So, enjoy what you've got. But, I will respond if I see someone say something declarative or generalized that I completely dissagree with. Just accept that there are other opinions. No pipe is sold with a rule book that I know of.

I'll respect discenting opinions as well, just as I did on a thread a while back with Hawky on this same subject. But, if my words get twisted, I'll keep posting. And, if an opinion seems to baffle me, I'll hound that also. It's all a part of learning. Heck, I'll try just about anything in my pipe... that's not green. And, yes, I've had some aged blends that tasted like dirt. Peck and I had the same go around when I was on Sable's side of the fence about aged Tilbury. It's just learning and communicating.

I don't take anything personal, and the personal stuff just makes me laugh. This place is about fun amd enjoymemt to me. Also, I surely hope no one gets bent on my words. If you have a choice, just take me a babbling idiot. I've been there and have the tshirt. ::

 

[cosmicfolklore]

One of the strongest aspects of this hobby is the power of suggestion.

I've said the same about pipes. It's hard to convince yourself that a $1000 pipe smoke like crap. That means you have to admit to yourself that you were duped, ha ha.

 

[ericusrex]

McClelland makes a Stave-Aged Virginia but I don't know how long it's been aged...if at all.