I just acquired three Barling's Make pre-transition family era pipes. A cased set from the 1930's and a registered piece also from the 1930's.....all unsmoked. Rare and becoming more scarce. The registered pipe I will smoke but the cased set....probably not. Truly a piece of history. This briar is just no longer available to carvers.
Unsmoked Estates: how rare are they?
- Thread starter sirwilliam
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Unsmoked and NOS estate pipes are the same.
Unsmoked pipes show up on Ebay with some frequency, frequently by non-pipe sellers. Look carefully as most are smoked. Yesterday a seller had a number of "Unsmoked" Dunhills go off, they all looked smoked to my eye. Several went for only $100.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191586625270?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311366670549?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191586623195?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311366668280?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191586625834?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Last month, I returned an "unsmoked" Comoys because it had been smoked (I had paid a premium for unsmoked).
I've found these true unsmoked pipes:
- James Upshall Bark (FS in the Classifieds!)
- GBD Virgin (Pipestud)
- Ashton Old Church
- Kaywoodie 07C (Four Hole stinger)
Of that group, only the GBD was listed as unsmoked.
Unsmoked pipes show up on Ebay with some frequency, frequently by non-pipe sellers. Look carefully as most are smoked. Yesterday a seller had a number of "Unsmoked" Dunhills go off, they all looked smoked to my eye. Several went for only $100.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191586625270?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311366670549?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191586623195?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311366668280?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191586625834?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Last month, I returned an "unsmoked" Comoys because it had been smoked (I had paid a premium for unsmoked).
I've found these true unsmoked pipes:
- James Upshall Bark (FS in the Classifieds!)
- GBD Virgin (Pipestud)
- Ashton Old Church
- Kaywoodie 07C (Four Hole stinger)
Of that group, only the GBD was listed as unsmoked.
I would agree with the others that we commonly see unsmoked estates come up, but some are rarer than others. Such as the Pete I bought from pipestud awhile back. Unsmoked Shamrock 1947-1949 era in the box with sock. I like Sable paid a premium for it, but it truly was unsmoked. That is not the case now.
Welcome to the forum, sirwilliam. Everybody has pretty much filled in your question, looks like you have scored a real nice cutty.
I have always been drawn been drawn to pots to smoke and rhoadesians and dogs for the looks, but lately cutty's have started to wink at me :lol:
I have always been drawn been drawn to pots to smoke and rhoadesians and dogs for the looks, but lately cutty's have started to wink at me :lol:
I'm with Al, in that the terms "New Old Stock" and "Unsmoked Estate" tend to be used to mean the same thing. I've certainly used them this way in selling off pipes which were old production and unsmoked.
That having been said, I understand Stan's observation that an unsmoked pipe being purchased from a private seller (as opposed to a licensed distributor, manufacturer or retail shop) is more likely to be labelled an estate pipe.
From a value perspective the most important attribute in either naming convention is that the pipe is unsmoked. As you can see from member posts above, folks will pay a premium for an unsmoked pipe.
Going forward I'll probably continue to sell of lots of unsmoked pipes I find (cross fingers to find more) as NOS, but as always I'll share the provenance so folks understand that they are also unsmoked estates.
-- Pat
That having been said, I understand Stan's observation that an unsmoked pipe being purchased from a private seller (as opposed to a licensed distributor, manufacturer or retail shop) is more likely to be labelled an estate pipe.
From a value perspective the most important attribute in either naming convention is that the pipe is unsmoked. As you can see from member posts above, folks will pay a premium for an unsmoked pipe.
Going forward I'll probably continue to sell of lots of unsmoked pipes I find (cross fingers to find more) as NOS, but as always I'll share the provenance so folks understand that they are also unsmoked estates.
-- Pat
So far, out of the estate auctions that I have won, only my Don Carlos straight grain volcano, and both of my Vauen Auenland pieces have been unsmoked. The rest were project pipes that turned out to be some of my favorites.
Among those who occasionally shop eBay perceptions about the rarity of unsmoked vintage (estate or NOS) pipes will often be skewed by the tendency for unsmoked vintage pipes to show up in sporadic spurts. For example, if a buyer checks in one week, they might find a seller with a half dozen or more unsmoked vintage pipes of one brand or related brands culled from the herd of a deceased collector or a closed tobacconist. The seller might list other unsmoked lots over the course of a month. A buyer shopping in that brief period of time may misperceive the actual rarity of vintage unsmoked pipes of the brand(s). Further, as the influx of vintage unsmoked pipes of a particular brand may temporarily depress the prices of smoked estate pipes bearing the same brand, that buyer will also miscalculate the average market prices of estate pipes of that brand. Having continuously watched the markets for the brands I like over a longer period, I would conclude that for those brands unsmoked vintage pipes offered for sale are rare in proportion to their age and/or collectability. Of course, original production duration and volume also matter. Know thine markets!
fishnbanjo: Algerian briar? Cool! I'd love to know the origins. The only clue is the stamping: Vielle Bruyere Extra, which just means extra old briar. No brand.
It is likely just an inexpensive drugstore pipe, but finding something so old and yet unused feels like a treasure. I'm gonna shine it up one of these days. I'll post more photos when I do.
Thanks to all for the greetings, compliments and interest in this subject.
As for the cutty shape I'd highly recommend it. The foot lets it sit, but it's mostly just really comfortable in the hand as you can wrap your middle finger around the foot.
It is likely just an inexpensive drugstore pipe, but finding something so old and yet unused feels like a treasure. I'm gonna shine it up one of these days. I'll post more photos when I do.
Thanks to all for the greetings, compliments and interest in this subject.
As for the cutty shape I'd highly recommend it. The foot lets it sit, but it's mostly just really comfortable in the hand as you can wrap your middle finger around the foot.
Early last year, we bought an estate lot of 224 pipes. Only about 50 were smoked. The balance contained Dunhills and Sasienis that were unsmoked, all from the 60s and 70s. The family thought that the gentleman who owned them bought stock from a shop that was going out of business and he just never got around to smoking them. Go figure!
Russ
Russ
Wow, Russ. That is a cool story. It would be interesting to know what he had paid for a trove like that.
Not having been smoked has to come into the equassion on normal purchases, and is something I take into consideration, although it is certainly not at the top of the list. For someone buying just for collecting it is obviously far more important.
Not having been smoked has to come into the equassion on normal purchases, and is something I take into consideration, although it is certainly not at the top of the list. For someone buying just for collecting it is obviously far more important.
Interesting thread, here's my tuppence worth. Last year I bought (on Ebay) a joblot of about 12 pipes of which 4 were new/unsmoked. One of those I loaded with Condor RR and fired it up. Now it could have been because the pipe was new I cannot be sure but it smoked horribly. Once done I did my usual cleaning routine with pipe cleaners and was surprised that I had left no evidence behind that I had actually smoked the thing.
I suspect that an odour lingered in the pipe but I would wager that would disappear in a short while.
The point I'm making is that perhaps many of these so called unsmoked pipes have actually been smoked only for the owner to have a bad experience with said pipe and to relegate the offending briar to the back of a drawer, only to be found years later my some innocent relative of the now deceased piper.
Worth a thought when one sees what at first glance something that is too good to be true.
As for my poor smoking pipe, I will keep on with it in the hope that things turn around.
Regards,
Jay.
I suspect that an odour lingered in the pipe but I would wager that would disappear in a short while.
The point I'm making is that perhaps many of these so called unsmoked pipes have actually been smoked only for the owner to have a bad experience with said pipe and to relegate the offending briar to the back of a drawer, only to be found years later my some innocent relative of the now deceased piper.
Worth a thought when one sees what at first glance something that is too good to be true.
As for my poor smoking pipe, I will keep on with it in the hope that things turn around.
Regards,
Jay.
Unsmoked pipes aren't that uncommon. Unsmoked pipes that are significantly more valuable because they're unsmoked, are rare.
With he exception of historically significant examples I never really understood the attraction of "Unsmoked" especially if you intended to smoke it anyway. It always seemed to me that you paid premium for something you would promptly devalue by smoking, when a smoked version of the same pipe could have been had for considerably less. The net result in the end was they were now both smoked and of the same value. Pipes purchased as unsmoked and preserved as such because they were pristine examples of the type is understandable but the others seem to better fit the category "temporarily unsmoked". I do understand that same thing happens when you smoke a new pipe but in that case you often don't have the option.
I'm guessing, but I think that many older unsmoked estate pipes sell for more than their original price, even accounting for inflation, presumably for their historical value. I don't think Dunhills lose a nickel being put away for thirty years unsmoked, even counting inflation.
It depends on who made the pipe. There was a seller on eBay who had a large amount of unsmoked German "no names" from the 1930's and '40's that he was selling over the period of a year or more. They generally went for between $30 and $50 apiece. An unsmoked Dunhill from the same period could easily fetch 4 figures. Recognized "collectible" pipes are worth a lot more unsmoked than smoked. But they're not always worth a lot more than a new pipe by the same maker. Popularity + rarity + condition = price.
I have found a couple without working hard at all. One was a Stanwell saddlestem billiard I got from Briar Blues; the other the Tim West "Old West" series dublin from Smoking Pipes. Both are great smoking pipes; both were in my budget; and I know how they have been treated. I'd gladly buy unsmoked estates from a reputable dealer any time.
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