The Button And The Bit

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kcghost

Lifer
May 6, 2011
13,562
22,176
77
Olathe, Kansas
If a pipe doesn't feel good in the mouth you will never enjoy it. To me Tonni Nielsen makes the best bits going.
I have often taken new pipes to a master repairman (George Dibos) to redo because they were so "clunky". George can do stem work as well as any many alive.

 

menuhin

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 21, 2014
642
3
A very informative thread on one detail of pipe construction. I myself favor the combination of tapered paper-thin bit with a well-defined crisp button at the end of the stem, which is similar to Walt Cannoy's construction as shown above. I have only 2 pipes that have this feature, one is an older Dunhill before the thick F/T (fishtail) stem style has become ubiquitous.
I wonder if all the above finely crafted stems are made of Vulcanite / Ebonite, or are some of them also acrylic - or can be achieved using acrylic. I myself have only 4 pipes with acrylic stems. Sure they are almost maintenance free but they are also too hard on my teeth.

 
For me, I think it's just a comfort thing, as opposed to any nuances of distribution across the tongue. The flavors of all of my Virginias is the same for me, whether it is bit by Becker, a factory Savinelli, or an Old Dominion cob with a straight wooden tube. However, the comfort of the Savinelli or the Becker is going to be much better, especially when clenching a pipe all day. But, between any of my Beckers, Rad, Tinskys, Savinellis, Nordings, or Hilsons, (Handmade v Factory) I cannot tell a difference of any significance.
Maybe it is an Emperor wears no clothes sort of thing, where when we've spent the big bucks on a pipe, we refuse to see the truth.

Or, maybe it's a Princess and the Pea, where I am just not that much of a dilettante to notice.
I still love and appreciate my artisan made pipes very much. I'm just not going to lie and say, "yeh, it smokes so much better." That is just BS to make other people jealous that cannot afford an artisan, IMO.
A straight tube, a factory bit, or a handmade refined bit, phhht... I'm just not that much of a little princess to notice I guess, haha!!

 

owen

Part of the Furniture Now
May 28, 2014
560
2
All my favourite pipes have a great feel in the mouth as their most important feature, and I have a number of better branded pipes that I dont smoke as they feel wrong.

 
Mar 1, 2014
3,647
4,919
I went ahead and made some more modifications to some pipes. I bored the bowl out to the same dimensions and put a 4.5mm draft on one, but on the one with the stock 2.5mm draft I just made sure the slot was opened to the same dimensions with a very gradual taper.

The feel of the airstream on my tongue was nearly the same with each, and smoking some Frog Morton in one vs. the other, it seems like the open draw was just easier to smoke hot.

It's a very interesting topic, and hard to say what "better" really is.

I know that some styles are harder to find, but I personally just appreciate attention to detail. It seems more a matter of the integrity of the design than a matter of "performance".

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Bumping this up after seeing pix of ssjones's new Asteriou,

my God was I stunned.
A very fine slot that is nearly erotic,

pipe porn if I've ever seen it! :P
Chris_Asteriou_Author_2015%2013_zpsdv94ourf.jpg

:
Ryan Alden also makes comfy stems, nice buttons and always with ultra-clean slots.



Airway to heaven!

Q14BChh.jpg


6kHY5Ga.jpg

And...
George Dibos is an undisputed master of stem-making.
Not surprising given the time, effort, and dedication that he's put into it.
It's a serious business.
maLDxrL.jpg


LsGB0a4.jpg


fkprac.jpg

:puffy:

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,814
45,478
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
What fabulous pipe porn! I really love how Asteriou shapes the slot to obtain the maximum spread.
In my discussions with various makers and dealers of English factory pipes, it seems that there were differing views on what was most important between the quality of the briar and the quality of the stem work. Charatan and Sasieni were held to put more emphasis on the quality of the briar, over the quality of the stem work. Dunhill put more emphasis on the stem work over the briar. Barling considered both of equal importance.
In correspondence with Kennedy Barnes, he provided the following information on Upshall stems. He had written to me requesting information on a Barling that he had.
The conversation continues with a question that I asked:
BTW, a couple of years back, Pete and I were having a discussion surrounding manufacturers' philosophy over what was the most important in making a quality pipe. Pete said that Charatan put the quality of the wood far ahead of the quality of the stem and bit, while Dunhill went in the opposite direction. Barling - family era - he said, provided top quality with both briar and stem and bit. IIRC, Pete put Upshall in the Charatan camp. Any thoughts on this?
Ken's responses:
Yes I do. Our mouthpieces were mostly moulded and supplied by New York Hamburger Gummi Waren (Herr Fritag (Mr. Friday) was the manager of production). It was, in my opinion, the Achilles heel of James Upshall. However, with a production that reached 12,000 pipes a year, hand-cutting all the mouthpieces would have been a major, major challenge. At the same time, the moulded ones were difficult to finish and I recall many a batch which contained small silver specks in the rubber which were time consuming to pumice out. Mr Fritag said these specks were tiny flecks of steel coming off the moulds during production. Incidently this Barling mouthpiece has two of these tiny silver specks on it. Otto kept on at me about improving the finish of the mouthpieces. He used to say “it’s like wearing a finely made suit with cheap (and dirty) shoes. And then you have to put these shoes in your mouth”!
I definitely think that it was the ‘school’ that both Barry and me went through. I did find out later that Dunhill were ‘copy’ frazing their rods to standard shapes then drilling them and lip-opening them filing and floating them- Billy Taylor told me some of their methods. They were so much more geared up to hand-cutting.
‘floating’ is the stage after filing the rough shaped rod- filing down to produce the lip, saddle if it is a saddle etc. The Danes use a sanding belt for this purpose. English pipe-makers did not use belts but used sanding wheels which can very roughly shape the rod before filing. The process can be include using a coarse flat file (called a Bastard file) then a finer flat file. The floating is the next stage using a three sided file (do you know the type?) sort of triangle file, where the three sides of the file are ground down on a grind wheel to produce a three sided blade. This is then used to scrape the file marks out of the vulcanite by going up and down the length of the mouthpiece, quite quickly (‘floating’) – a bit like trying to scrape a carrot using the edge of a knife. This sharp blade can tuck right into the lip and prepare the final shape of the mouthpiece which is then ready for pumicing.
I was going through some photos and came across this one. We used to make hand-cuts, but not from rod. We used sheet vulcanite from NY Hamburger Gummi Waren. These sheets came in size 6ft X 4ft X 1” and were a higher quality than rod vulcanite as the pressure exerted during manufacture was much higher than the pressure applied to rod vulcanite and this resulted in a better quality. Sheet vulcanite was used before rod was made. I used to take these sheets to a local machine manufacturing company called Hi-tech (incidentally, this was the first time this word ‘hi-tech’ was used in the world!) and they would cut these sheets into ‘blanks’. Sheet vulcanite is not used anymore and I bought the last stock from NYH in 1978- enough to make 4-5 thousand blanks. Notice our friend ‘the bastard’ in the photo.
bQOUVcv.jpg

…all I remember is that they were incredibly hard to work. I never saw one ‘used’ so to speak, so I don’t know about oxidisation. We also bought some old stock from Sasieni-a few more sheets. Yes, they weighed a ton! That wooden ‘dolly’ wheel in the top right of the photo was also one of the originals from Sasieni- they were used before steel spindles etc and in my opinion they were better.
I figured that the Upshallphiles might find this information interesting.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,550
14,323
Sorry to interrupt the flow, but I feel compelled to make sure that people know the stems a few posts back---the Joura, Baldi, and Bang---including the buttons and slots, are COPIES, not my own designs.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
"Without a legendary stem, a legendary pipe is just firewood." - The Pipe Monk 2016 [:puffpipe:]
Love the quote Monk!

:puffy:
And Sable,

my Good God man.
Tremendous.
Thank you.
I know you asked some questions and sought opinion, but I will have to come back later,

still absorbing the intense density of your comprehensive post.
:!:

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Sorry to interrupt the flow, but I feel compelled to make sure that people know the stems a few posts back---the Joura, Baldi, and Bang---including the buttons and slots, are COPIES, not my own designs.
:laughat:

........copycat!

:wink:
Just kidding,

it requires a tremendous amount of trust and faith from the owner to send pipes of that caliber out for repair, resto, or stem replacement,

and there ain't too many men around that are capable of such feats of detailed attentive workmanship,

you are the man!
:worship:

:!: :!: :!:

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,550
14,323
Jesse's question regarding which matters more, briar or stem, seems to me a self-answering one: the wood doesn't matter---hell, the entire pipe doesn't matter---if it isn't smoked, and a lack of comfort is the #1 cause of "rack neglect". Smokers, in that final instant of reaching, go for the comfy one pretty much every time.
As for Ken's recollections, there's some goofy second hand info in there, for sure. (Steel migrating into rubber from the molding process?!) But that is common when factory process managers---as in administrative managers---speculate about technical things.
This being the Internet, it's important to emphasize that Ken was just passing on what he was told.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Jesse's question regarding which matters more, briar or stem, seems to me a self-answering one: the wood doesn't matter---hell, the entire pipe doesn't matter---if it isn't smoked, and a lack of comfort is the #1 cause of "rack neglect". Smokers, in that final instant of reaching, go for the comfy one pretty much every time.
No doubt.
Well said.
And the phrase "rack neglect" made me think of a pipe I once owned...
...since this is the internet, I am compelled to offer an example of what I considered to be "not a good button",

it may be slightly difficult to discern in this b&w photo (I would have to dig thru folders to find better pix & I'm lazy)
...this pipe was made by a hot young carver not very long ago, it's a great looking pipe, very well made...except for the bit/button style, it was just very uncomfortable, and I realize this is all personal preference too, but do you notice how thin the button is?
In my opinion it is too thin, any amount of buffing down the road in the future would seriously put the button in jeopardy of total degradation, that is, to be non-existent, it was like a sliver, and the edges weren't polished and thus had a "razor-like" edge where it felt as if I was slitting my lips everytime I smoked it, similar to the feel of a paper cut, on your lips.

Not a good feeling.
The pipe smoked well enough,

but it was neglected for the above reasons.

Finally,

it was sold.
Life is too short to suffer with an uncomfortable stem!
RNW5Jxn.jpg


 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,814
45,478
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
This being the Internet, it's important to emphasize that Ken was just passing on what he was told.
Partly correct and he did say that some of the Dunhill info was got from Bill Taylor. But much of this is his first person account of his experiences at Upshall. He wasn't just an office guy. Ken was a cutter and did other work at Upshall, so he's hands on and handled the stem material. The steel filings thing was from Otto, who pretty much controlled the flow of Briar in he British pipe trade at that time.
I'd be interested in hearing more from Ken if he has any inclination, as well as Pete, or anyone with direct experience on the manufacturing of the vulcanite stock.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,814
45,478
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Life is too short to suffer with an uncomfortable stem!
For sure, which is why I asked George to make me a comfortable flat bit for the 1915 Barling in addition to the period correct one. And that flat stem is VERY comfy. The older orific type stems tended to be rounded near the button, which makes them unstable unless held. I don't smoke my early pieces very often for that reason.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,814
45,478
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
My booboo, the steel filings thing was from their vulcanite supplier. I don't know if Mr Fritag had any floor experience or not.
The silver bits Ken mentions in the Barling stem are from a 1980's era Barling.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
For sure, which is why I asked George to make me a comfortable flat bit for the 1915 Barling...
No doubt, and I know how important that particular pipe is to you.
George hooked me up with restoring some of my old oddball Brit-blasts and I was amazed at their condition upon return, like really stunned,

jawdropt.
G 2 the D

goddamm!

SHAZAM!

:puffy:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I went ahead and dug out a couple of better shots (ebay photos) of that pipe I ended up selling, and although it is well crafted,

it happened to be a poor design for me...
...I pay much more attention to such things these days.
It may look good,

but feeling good is the more important factor!
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