Savinelli's Big Big Misstep
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@warren:
I don't need to ask them to call off their product, I just won't be buying one. Having said that, it could be the Cadillac of vaporizers, but in my mind, these vaporizers are a fad and will ultimately be regulated like a cigarette. If they choose to make a foray into 'flavoured vape juice', and vaporizers that enable that, then to me, they have 'sold out' to make a quick buck on the popularity of the fad. Just my two cents.
As I said in other posts, if it were Dunhill or even a master boutique artisan carver making E-cigs, would you have the same respect for them? I don't see Tinsky or Rad making them....
Shutterbug
I don't need to ask them to call off their product, I just won't be buying one. Having said that, it could be the Cadillac of vaporizers, but in my mind, these vaporizers are a fad and will ultimately be regulated like a cigarette. If they choose to make a foray into 'flavoured vape juice', and vaporizers that enable that, then to me, they have 'sold out' to make a quick buck on the popularity of the fad. Just my two cents.
As I said in other posts, if it were Dunhill or even a master boutique artisan carver making E-cigs, would you have the same respect for them? I don't see Tinsky or Rad making them....
Shutterbug
A Dunhill e-cigarette would undoubtedly be a quality product.
And, trust me on this, the taxes on tobacco blends will rise steeply. Pipes are regulated as heavily as cigarettes. It's not just cigarette smoking that is prohibit in various locations. Tobacco blends will be taxed more as sales of cigarettes shrink. Politicians are not going to reduce spending so the cigarette taxes must be replaced. Smokers of all stamps, dope and tobacco both, will be targeted for higher taxes.
Tinsky's business model is probably nothing like Savinelli's. Tinsky is a boutique pipe maker. Savinelli is, comparatively, "big" business. Lot's of employees depending on profits, etc.
And, trust me on this, the taxes on tobacco blends will rise steeply. Pipes are regulated as heavily as cigarettes. It's not just cigarette smoking that is prohibit in various locations. Tobacco blends will be taxed more as sales of cigarettes shrink. Politicians are not going to reduce spending so the cigarette taxes must be replaced. Smokers of all stamps, dope and tobacco both, will be targeted for higher taxes.
Tinsky's business model is probably nothing like Savinelli's. Tinsky is a boutique pipe maker. Savinelli is, comparatively, "big" business. Lot's of employees depending on profits, etc.
I tried the blu e-cigs before and wasnt too impressed. The new pen vaporizers are interesting and so far seem to deliver a more true to life smoke than the smaller e-cigs. But, I wanted a true smoking experience without all the chemicals and stale smell. So, in a way, I'm an e smoke convert because it failed me and I looked to the oldest form of smoking tobacco, pipes.
I've found the briar.
I've found the briar.
@warren: I think you're missing the point. If an artisan maker (or replace your favourite maker here) started making these, and you held some level of respect for their product, would you or would you not have less respect for their product line? All of the pipe makers listed require some level of respect for their product. At what level do you loose respect for their line, and what they carry and what they want to represent? As far as regulation is concerned, the reason why it was brought up originally is because in many states/provinces/territories, vape is not considered smoke, and that is how it is marketed...that you can smoke these in non-traditional places.
Shutterbug
Shutterbug
I do realize it's an unintentional mistake. If the "designer" would have flipped it in other direction, it would have been the Hungarian flag.
It's just that people tend to be sticklers when it becomes national symbols and their colors, proportions and dimensions etc. You just don't go and fiddle with them as you please.
Firstly, I'd like to say I'm in no way an expert relative to some who participate on this forum, however I do have a bit of knowledge regarding this discussion topic. So, on to this particular missive.
As usual this forum has proven to be quite provocative. There have been several good points made thus far. Shutterbug, you mentioned selling the e-cig could possibly cheapen the Savinelli brand. This is a legitimate concern, one that should truly be considered when taking on such a project. Pipe Stud, you too have broached a stimulating point. Dunhill has had cigarettes and cigars in their brand portfolio for some time now. I'm not certain, however I don't believe this has negatively affected the Dunhill brand.
When establishing an objective point of view, one must gather as much factual information as possible. Regarding the topic at hand, it's important to note a few things. According to the Tobacco Vapor Electronic Cigarette Association, 45 million US citizens consider themselves smokers, and only 1.6 million of them were fellow brothers of the briar. Now, simply looking at this from a business perspective. We see there are approximately 43 million consumers who partake in some form of tobacco other than that which is burned in a tobacco pipe (most likely cigarettes). If a tobacco pipe company wished to gain market share in the US this leaves them with a few options. One is to attempt to hurdle over the monstrous barrier to market entry that is cigarette regulation, and another, much less daunting option, is to attempt to enter the e-cigarette market (It's important to note the e-cigarette is designed and marketed to target a completely different demographic than that of the pipe smoker). The latter poses much less difficulty and more promise. According to Wells Fargo, the 2013 projected market share for e-cigarettes in the US was $1 billion (statistic was last verified in January 2013). That's right, billion with a "b"... Crazy... I know.
Alright... If you're still reading (you deserve a medal), I'd like to address the Savinelli brand. Savinelli, as most of us know is and has been for many years one of the world's leading pipe manufactures. They've managed to produce thousands of pipes in a charming factory wedged in the Italian alps. A good portion of their staff have been employed by Savinelli for over 40 years. These are people who take tremendous pride in what they do, and it shows.
Anyhow, I thought I would offer up some food for thought.
Cheers,
Brandon
As usual this forum has proven to be quite provocative. There have been several good points made thus far. Shutterbug, you mentioned selling the e-cig could possibly cheapen the Savinelli brand. This is a legitimate concern, one that should truly be considered when taking on such a project. Pipe Stud, you too have broached a stimulating point. Dunhill has had cigarettes and cigars in their brand portfolio for some time now. I'm not certain, however I don't believe this has negatively affected the Dunhill brand.
When establishing an objective point of view, one must gather as much factual information as possible. Regarding the topic at hand, it's important to note a few things. According to the Tobacco Vapor Electronic Cigarette Association, 45 million US citizens consider themselves smokers, and only 1.6 million of them were fellow brothers of the briar. Now, simply looking at this from a business perspective. We see there are approximately 43 million consumers who partake in some form of tobacco other than that which is burned in a tobacco pipe (most likely cigarettes). If a tobacco pipe company wished to gain market share in the US this leaves them with a few options. One is to attempt to hurdle over the monstrous barrier to market entry that is cigarette regulation, and another, much less daunting option, is to attempt to enter the e-cigarette market (It's important to note the e-cigarette is designed and marketed to target a completely different demographic than that of the pipe smoker). The latter poses much less difficulty and more promise. According to Wells Fargo, the 2013 projected market share for e-cigarettes in the US was $1 billion (statistic was last verified in January 2013). That's right, billion with a "b"... Crazy... I know.
Alright... If you're still reading (you deserve a medal), I'd like to address the Savinelli brand. Savinelli, as most of us know is and has been for many years one of the world's leading pipe manufactures. They've managed to produce thousands of pipes in a charming factory wedged in the Italian alps. A good portion of their staff have been employed by Savinelli for over 40 years. These are people who take tremendous pride in what they do, and it shows.
Anyhow, I thought I would offer up some food for thought.
Cheers,
Brandon
I understand all the logic and business rationale for Savinelli doing this, but I admit I am largely with shutterbug on this one - it does cheapen their brand in my eyes. To use a very loose analogy, if Ferrari started selling pickup trucks or SUVs, I can't help but admit that it would cheapen the brand from my own personal perspective. Brand identity is a very subjective thing.
This analogy works for me. When I saw Porsche introduce first the Cayenne, and second the Panamera (Porschewagon), my judgmental mind immediately thought that the brand was compromising their brand ideal or integrity. The deviation from performance sports car/coupe into SUV and family sedan was one I could only reconcile from a sales perspective. I doubt that my assumption has anything to do with how well a brand new 911 Carerra performs, and I doubt that the introduction of e-cigs will impact the production or quality of Savinelli's pipes.
-- Pat
As long as they continue to produce quality pipes it does not bother me. I cannot blame a business, which is established to make money, to attempt to increase its profits. This is obviously a growing business and perhaps Savinelli making more money in this department will allow them to use some of those funds in the pipe department.
On a side note, the word vape makes me cringe like those who use the word epic. Don't know why it bothers me, but it does.
On a side note, the word vape makes me cringe like those who use the word epic. Don't know why it bothers me, but it does.
Yes sir, Shutterbug. Absolutely I'd have the same respect for Dunhill or any artisan carvers making E-cigs. Several great artisan pipe makers make other products. Joe Nelson makes guitars, as an example. I love his pipes. They play a fine tune for me just like his guitars play a fine tune for those that enjoy strumming on them. If Rad Davis wants to come out with a line of sandblasted "Rad E-Cigs," that would be fine with me. I sure wouldn't quit buying Rad's pipes or think any less of them just because he also made E-cigs. I just don't go along with that thought process. But hey, I thought computers were a fad, too... so what do I know? LOL!
Pipestud
I see nothing wrong with it, personally. I vape as well. I like many others turned to vapes as a way to get away from the cigarettes. And it does indeed help. If you buy a kit, instead of one of those that actually looks like a plastic cigarette, you can have your liquid made specially for you. Meaning you can control the amount of vapor it produces and you can control how much nicotine you want to use. For smokers, it feeds the habit and the addiction. And if you're smart, you can use it to step away from the cigarettes completely. Which is what I'm trying to do. Currently I have 4 different mixtures of 4 different nicotine levels. 28mg of nicotine, 24, 22, and 18. Once I go through these bottles, I will lower it to 22, 20, 18, and 15. And so on and so forth until all my vapes have 0 nicotine. And then I will put them away forever as they will no longer be needed. When I'm smoking the vapes I save a lot of money. It is far more affordable than cigarrettes. It gives me more money to save on pipes and tobacco in the long run.
I think Savinelli's move was ingenious. Think about it... millions of people are moving away from cigarettes and toward vapor for many of the same reasons I have. Savinelli has a chance to cater to this new and growing industry and in doing so advertise their company as an alternative. Many who try their vapes might at some point try their pipes.
I think Savinelli's move was ingenious. Think about it... millions of people are moving away from cigarettes and toward vapor for many of the same reasons I have. Savinelli has a chance to cater to this new and growing industry and in doing so advertise their company as an alternative. Many who try their vapes might at some point try their pipes.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
We're all in this together against, as was alluded to above, the "pleasure police"
We're all in this together against, as was alluded to above, the "pleasure police"
I think that comparing Savinelli to Ferrari is a tad bit off, with all due respect. They make a wonderful smoking pipe, and I have many. But, they're a production company that cranks out bajillions at a time, keeping the prices very low. I am not knocking them at all, but they're cheap, almost the cheapest on the market. I think that if they started putting their name on a line of crappy energy drinks, people would still buy their wonderfully smoking pipes with the prices they ask.
...and I say that with my mouth pulling on one of their bent Oscar Tigers :
:
...and I say that with my mouth pulling on one of their bent Oscar Tigers :
:
I really don't have a problem with Savanelli licenscing their name out on an e-cig (licensing deals can be quite lucrative). Especially if you have a savvy B&M using the popularity of e-cigs to introduce new customers to the world of pipes and luxury tobaccos.
If I were a B&M, I'd have any ecig brands, accessories, etc. and I would market them hard... Along with alternatives, like fine pipes and luxury tobaccos.
If I were a B&M, I'd have any ecig brands, accessories, etc. and I would market them hard... Along with alternatives, like fine pipes and luxury tobaccos.
I also vape from time to time, and I fail to see the correlation of making e-cigs to cheapening the brand. It looks like a pretty standard setup on par with Blu.
There is a growing group of e-pipers that like to convert pipes because they love, and appreciate the look of a pipe.
There is a growing group of e-pipers that like to convert pipes because they love, and appreciate the look of a pipe.
All businesses are here to make money, calling one out for "cashing out" or "going mainstream" or "cheaping the brand" really is pointless. They are separate product lines that do not affect the quality of their pipes. I have tried vaporizers myself along with cigarettes, honestly I never got anything from either of them and quit both instantly upon trying, pipe smoking on the other hand is wonderful. I won't denounce a business for going into something profitable if I don't enjoy it, there's no reason for me to care one way or the other since I won't be a consumer of that particular good.
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