Ruminations on Error of Smoking Quality Theory

[Lumbridge]

Many factors are at play that affect the perceived quality of a smoke. I'm not sure if it's just luck, but I seem to be able to get a good smoke out of any pipe I pick up - large or small, cob or briar, straight or bent, et cetera. I regularly smoke pipes with crooked and off-center drilling that seem to perform just fine despite these flaws, defying all logic that they should be bad smokers because of the poor craftsmanship. It's certain tobaccos that I still struggle with, particularly those which stubbornly resist taking a flame regardless of how moist or dry, how loosely or tightly packed they are, but I digress. In my opinion, truly "bad" pipes do exist, but are relatively few and far between.

I think psychology has a lot to do with whether a smoke is "good" or not. If you're smoking a pipe that you find to be detestably ugly, and you don't like the feel of the pipe in your hand or between your teeth, then you might not have an enjoyable smoke because of the bad impression that results, even if the pipe is well-crafted.

Sometimes a pipe just doesn't work with one's smoking style; for example, someone who constantly clenches and has a tendency to salivate a lot might find a full-bent pipe to smoke wet and blame the pipe, when in reality, the problem is caused by drool running down the stem.

 

[alaskanpiper]

If a bigger cigar does, and a bigger cigarette does, a bigger pipe should smoke better.

Shouldn’t it?

Well, for starters I would argue the cigar assertion, but regardless…

You’re talking about two entirely different delivery systems. Cigarettes and cigars have a wrapper. Which means they have a wrapper to filler ratio that changes with the ring gauge.

On top of that you have characteristics of different leaf to deal with. VAs may smoker better in thinner chambers (as is the popular consensus) whereas english blends may sing in a wider bowl (again, the majority opinion). Etc.

On the second point, the same applies with cigars. Different wrappers may be more enjoyable with a different wrapper to filler ratio than others.

To be clear I’m not saying that smaller is better than bigger, I’m saying that chamber size is one of a multitude of factors that play into how well anything smokes in anything.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Could you be a bit more direct?

Not without being a dick, so I’ll refrain.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Search results

Either the wrong link or you're pulling my chain. I asked a simple question about the Frank quote.

 

[Briar Lee]

It's both. You could have the finest piece of briar ever known to man. If the drills and stem are off, I wouldn't enjoy the smoke. The quality of briar could never overcome poor construction.

Take two perfectly constructed pipes, I think it's obvious the better briar would smoke a bit better. Of the 2, I think it's obvious the construction is far more important. After some period, cake builds up. A nice layer of cake will negate the impact of the briar on the quality of the smoke.

My latest big Jumbo C Marxman holds the crown for the worst constructed Marxman I own.

The grade school kid level of carving is the first sign. But that can’t effect the smoking.

It was truly hand made, because it has a stem that if not lined up right juts out a quarter inch if upside down.

The draft hole was drilled cockeyed, but it does come out at the bottom of the chamber at about four o’clock, instead of six o’clock.

But it is a geniune “C” and it cost ten dollars when a quarter of men in the USA were unemployed and a third of all the farm land in Mississippi sold for taxes on one day.

And it’s a dynamite smoker, as good as my other Marxmans.



I don’t think the smoke cares if the draft hole is way off or the pipe is puke ugly.

In the same order I got this pipe marked as a GIANT by Bruck Bros



It has exactly the same huge bore, .870”, as the Marxman C Jumbo but unlike it this Made in England store brand import is flawlessly made of stunningly well grained briar. It’s drilled straight and true. If it didn’t have a B in a circle on one side you’d never know if the stem was up or down.

I’ve loaded up three flakes of Luxury Twist Flake in this and there was room for more. It’s as good a smoker as any of my Marxmans, and my ain’t she pretty?



Briar must be cured, and then it probably needs breaking in.

But once broken in there may not be a noticeable difference between the same size Dunhill and same size Rossi.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Not without being a dick, so I’ll refrain.

We apparently crossed posts in the ether. PM me if it's insulting.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

My latest big Jumbo C Marxman holds the crown for the worst constructed Marxman I own.

The grade school kid level of carving is the first sign. But that can’t effect the smoking.

It was truly hand made, because it has a stem that if not lined up right juts out a quarter inch if upside down.

The draft hole was drilled cockeyed, but it does come out at the bottom of the chamber at about four o’clock, instead of six o’clock.

But it is a geniune “C” and it cost ten dollars when a quarter of men in the USA were unemployed and a third of all the farm land in Mississippi sold for taxes on one day.

And it’s a dynamite smoker, as good as my other Marxmans.

View attachment 291441

I don’t think the smoke cares if the draft hole is way off or the pipe is puke ugly.

In the same order I got this pipe marked as a GIANT by Bruck Bros

View attachment 291444

It has exactly the same huge bore, .870”, as the Marxman C Jumbo but unlike it this Made in England store brand import is flawlessly made of stunningly well grained briar. It’s drilled straight and true. If it didn’t have a B in a circle on one side you’d never know if the stem was up or down.

I’ve loaded up three flakes of Luxury Twist Flake in this and there was room for more. It’s as good a smoker as any of my Marxmans, and my ain’t she pretty?

View attachment 291448

Briar must be cured, and then it probably needs breaking in.

But once broken in there may not be a noticeable difference between the same size Dunhill and same size Rossi.

You're welcome to your opinion. Being off centered isn't exactly what I meant by drill. Too small of a draught hole, difficult draw. Improperly positioned in the bowl can lead to more plugs from tobacco particles and ash. Poorly aligned drills on bent pipes can lead to difficult draws, unable to pass pipe cleaner cleanly and can accumulate more moisture. And if the stem isn't cut right for clinching, I don't want anything to do with it.

And the aesthetics of the construction certainly come into play. A simple example like driving a pink Cadillac or a black on. The pink one will likely ride and perform identically to the black one but I sure wouldn't enjoy driving it as much. I'd drive the pink one versus walking but if given a choice, I'd strongly prefer driving the black one.

 

[Briar Lee]

Well, for starters I would argue the cigar assertion, but regardless…

You’re talking about two entirely different delivery systems. Cigarettes and cigars have a wrapper. Which means they have a wrapper to filler ratio that changes with the ring gauge.

On top of that you have characteristics of different leaf to deal with. VAs may smoker better in thinner chambers (as is the popular consensus) whereas english blends may sing in a wider bowl (again, the majority opinion). Etc.

On the second point, the same applies with cigars. Different wrappers may be more enjoyable with a different wrapper to filler ratio than others.

To be clear I’m not saying that smaller is better than bigger, I’m saying that chamber size is one of a multitude of factors that play into how well anything smokes in anything.

I’ve offended more people I never intended to offend over my lifetime because of an Ozarkian habit I picked up of never being dead certain about anything and everything that can’t be as sure as the Law of Gravity.

The theory of relativity is a theory. I won’t argue with Eisenstein but some others might.

When we smoke any tobacco in any vessel, we can’t burn it and light it on fire.

It has to smolder. We suck the oil laden smoke in and call it delicious or maybe not so delicious.

The fate of nations never hangs on how to best smoke tobacco, like it does military secrets and industrial methods.

It’s a sitting around the campfire sort of debate.

On my farm south of Bug Tussle is a spot where it’s so dark all the wonders of the heavens are in display on a clear night. The only lights are distant, from the horse arena where Bug Tussle used to be, and over a rise.

I’ve noticed the glow of a friend’s cigarette flares brighter and more intense than a friend smoking a cigar’s ember.

The smaller the diameter the hotter the ember, everything else equal.

That ought to apply to pipes, as well.

 

[alaskanpiper]

I’ve offended more people I never intended to offend over my lifetime because of an Ozarkian habit I picked up of never being dead certain about anything and everything that can’t be as sure as the Law of Gravity.

The theory of relativity is a theory. I won’t argue with Eisenstein but some others might.

When we smoke any tobacco in any vessel, we can’t burn it and light it on fire.

It has to smolder. We suck the oil laden smoke in and call it delicious or maybe not so delicious.

The fate of nations never hangs on how to best smoke tobacco, like it does military secrets and industrial methods.

It’s a sitting around the campfire sort of debate.

On my farm south of Bug Tussle is a spot where it’s so dark all the wonders of the heavens are in display on a clear night. The only lights are distant, from the horse arena where Bug Tussle used to be, and over a rise.

I’ve noticed the glow of a friend’s cigarette flares brighter and more intense than a friend smoking a cigar’s ember.

The smaller the diameter the hotter the ember, everything else equal.

That ought to apply to pipes, as well.

One could also argue that a wider chamber introduces more airflow, thus burning hotter

I’ve seen this topic questioned and debated many times here and elsewhere, and there never seems to be a consensus.

The likely reason for this, is that if there is a difference between smaller and larger diameter chambers when it comes to how hot they burn tobacco, it pales in comparison to the differences one can achieve through altering technique/cadence, tobacco dry time, differences in cut, a properly drilled airway, etc.

All I can tell you is that most people prefer VA based blends in thinner chambers, and english blends in wider chambers. I feel the same way. Certainly many people don’t.

To answer anecdote with anecdote, I don’t believe smaller or larger chamber diameters smoke better or worse than the other. Simply slightly differently. That is based on thousands of bowls smoked in pipes though, not visual evidence of my ember across a field at night, so take it for what it’s worth.

The bottom line is with good technique, proper dry time, and a decent pipe, the size of the chamber should not be an issue you need to concern yourself with when it comes to achieving a “cool” smoke. Whether or not they can result is subtle flavor differences is an entirely different, and possibly even more subjective topic.

 

[sablebrush52]

Ancient briar grown way high on a mountain can’t hurt smoking quality, but maybe it’s the chamber dimensions combined with the draft hole that make the biggest differnce?

It makes a considerable difference.

Among the many things that have disappeared from the pipe smoking world is Neil Archer Roan's wonderful site, A Passion For Pipes, which contained a number of factually informative articles, including one on chamber geometry that went into quite a bit of depth regarding the relationship between chamber geometry and ignition and burn characteristics. Nice graphics included to show how it all works.

I was able to copy a number of those articles off of the Internet Archive before Neil had it sealed it from access. IIRC, Neil was going to either produce an updated version of the site or make the material available in another form, but it didn't happen.

 

[sablebrush52]

@Briar Lee

I used to subscribe to Cigar Aficionado starting in the early ’90s; I also subscribed to Marvin Shanken’s Cigar Insider newsletter. Generally, I almost always preferred the larger gauge versions of a given line of cigars. Quite often, it seemed like the bigger gauges allowed for combinations of more different tobaccos and offered greater complexity; thinner gauges seemed less full flavoured to me than their bigger counterparts. Maybe they tasted exactly the same, but my perception told me otherwise.

With pipes, I suspect the perceived flavour of tobacco is affected by many different factors. Chamber size, airflow, humidity, pipe material, cadence of smoking, how you lit the tobacco—so many variables.

Mmmmmm...Hoyo de Monterrey double coronas...mmmmmmmmm!

 

[Briar Lee]

One could also argue that a wider chamber introduces more airflow, thus burning hotter

I’ve seen this topic questioned and debated many times here and elsewhere, and there never seems to be a consensus.

The likely reason for this, is that if there is a difference between smaller and larger diameter chambers when it comes to how hot they burn tobacco, it pales in comparison to the differences one can achieve through altering technique/cadence, tobacco dry time, differences in cut, a properly drilled airway, etc.

All I can tell you is that most people prefer VA based blends in thinner chambers, and english blends in wider chambers. I feel the same way. Certainly many people don’t.

To answer anecdote with anecdote, I don’t believe smaller or larger chamber diameters smoke better or worse than the other. Simply slightly differently. That is based on thousands of bowls smoked in pipes though, not visual evidence of my ember across a field at night, so take it for what it’s worth.

The bottom line is with good technique, proper dry time, and a decent pipe, the size of the chamber should not be an issue you need to concern yourself with when it comes to achieving a “cool” smoke. Whether or not they can result is subtle flavor differences is an entirely different, and possibly even more subjective topic.

One of the perennial debates I remember growing up was whether hot water froze quicker than cold water, or does cold water boil quicker than hot water.

There wasn’t an internet then. The answer is interesting.

Is It True that Hot Water Freezes Faster than Cold Water or that Cold Water Boils Faster than Hot Water?

It seems hard tobelieve, but some people swear that it is so

www.scientificamerican.com

As to pipe diameter, a pipe with a smaller diameter should require a different amount of draw, than a larger one.

Before I reamed my Bruck Bros GIANT it wasn’t a very big chamber.


Reaming it accomplished three things.

There’s a bigger chamber now, and it’s to the bare briar, and who wouldn’t be a lot prouder of a beautful pipe than an old caked up one?

I wish I’d tried it before cleaning it up.

But back to my previous theory that briar quality is the dominant factor, how does a pipe with such thin walls not get blazing hot?

Is it because of that ancient, densely grained briar?

Or do I suck on it easier?

 

[sablebrush52]

If a bigger cigar does, and a bigger cigarette does, a bigger pipe should smoke better.

Shouldn’t it?

Not necessarily. I do get rounder flavors on some blends in larger chambers and reserve those pipes for occasion where I'm going to smoke one of those blends. But it's more than size, it's the geometry of the chamber.

 

[alaskanpiper]

who wouldn’t be a lot prouder of a beautful pipe than an old caked up one?

@didimauw for one

Cake is a whole other can of worms debate-wise. Personally, I feel as though my pipes smoke a little better with a mm or so of cake built up, so I keep them reamed to damn near briar but not quite. Not sure if it’s some kind of insulation or heat retention thing, but it just seems like the ember will stay lit a little better with a little cake wall. Which in turn makes eat easier to produce the flavors I want with cadence.

 

[OzPiper]

It all comes down to personal preference

I happen to prefer smaller gauge cigars
And pipes with less open draws - most likely a consequence of owning a lot of old pipes

No right or wrong
Just what works best for you.

 

[sablebrush52]

And if it’s chamber dimensions, then a high dollar, high grade pipe only smokes better in our imagination.

Any wood would do as well.

You're forgetting the airway and transition to the slot. Some carvers do a very careful job of shaping that transition. There's also the comfort of the bit, which also translates to a more enjoyable smoke. Otherwise, pretty much accurate, except for the "any wood" part. Briar's silicate content makes it a natural for use in making pipes.

 

[Briar Lee]

Not necessarily. I do get rounder flavors on some blends in larger chambers and reserve those pipes for occasion where I'm going to smoke one of those blends. But it's more than size, it's the geometry of the chamber.

There is a good point.

Both my Bruck Bros GIANT and Jumbo C have identical inside bore diameters of .870”, which must have been extra large for 80+ years ago, not so uncommon today.

But they won’t have the same dimensions of bore geometry. The bottoms of the chamber are different, the taper may be slightly different, the chamber height varies a little.

Add to that the draft holes and draft passages aren’t the same.

Look at the elaborate stinger I dug out of the Bruck Bros. That tube was inside the stem.




In the case of wood heating stoves, the modern ones are incredibly better than the one in my house that was modern then. The renters in the same house I grew up in using a wood heating stove that looks exactly like the one we had fifty years ago use a third of the firewood, there’s hardly any smoke coming out, and no creosote build up I had to scrape out, often several times during heating season. The only difference is geometry a computer program altered, and a stainless steel liner.

Are pipes the same?

 

[Lumbridge]

Among the many things that have disappeared from the pipe smoking world is Neil Archer Roan's wonderful site, A Passion For Pipes, which contained a number of factually informative articles, including one on chamber geometry that went into quite a bit of depth regarding the relationship between chamber geometry and ignition and burn characteristics. Nice graphics included to show how it all works.

While I'm sure there could be some effect on flavor, the biggest difference that I notice regarding chamber shape and dimensions is the ease of packing as related to the cut of the tobacco. Ex: trying to pack a chunky, ribbon-cut aromatic into a narrow-chambered chimney could be pretty finicky, whereas the same tobacco paired with a wide-chambered pot shouldn't present much difficulty.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Mmmmmm...Hoyo de Monterrey double coronas...mmmmmmmmm!

Perhaps, my favourite cigar ever.

 

[Briar Lee]

@didimauw for one

Cake is a whole other can of worms debate-wise. Personally, I feel as though my pipes smoke a little better with a mm or so of cake built up, so I keep them reamed to damn near briar but not quite. Not sure if it’s some kind of insulation or heat retention thing, but it just seems like the ember will stay lit a little better with a little cake wall. Which in turn makes eat easier to produce the flavors I want with cadence.

That pipe had maybe as much as a quarter of an inch or so of cake. And it was caked down to the draft hole, too.

The stem isn’t chewed up, it only needed a light internal cleaning, somebody loved it a lot. This wasn’t an abused pipe, just a very carefully used one, that must have been smoked a bunch of times to be so caked up.

Sometimes an old pipe like this is sour, full of musty smells or ghosts, but this one smoked wonderfully, no issues.

My pretty pipe now holds as much as three times more tobacco than before.

Eventually it could be caked back to where it was.

Will that change how it smokes?