Pipe makers that use water glass to coat bowls?

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zack24

Lifer
May 11, 2013
1,726
2
coating the untreated bowls with honey
You can use honey as a binder with activated charcoal. Honey used by itself in a bowl is definitely going to be sweet for the first bowl and by the time you smoke it to the bottom, it will be charred and probably not noticeable..(unless you keep wiping the honey before every bowl...)
Even products I have which have it in them, they call it hydrated silica. But by its very implication, that makes it soluble. Nothing I want in my pipe or lungs.
It's actually known as Sodium Silicate- not the same chemically as hydrated silica. It's interesting how we ponder potential issues that are not known to be a problem whilst we feverishly burn those tasty leaves containing known carcinogens in our pipes... :puffpipe:

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
5,542
14,285
Even products I have which have it in them, they call it hydrated silica. But by its very implication, that makes it soluble. Nothing I want in my pipe or lungs.
-
It's actually known as Sodium Silicate. It's interesting how we ponder potential issues that are not known to be a problem whilst we feverishly burn those tasty leaves containing known carcinogens in our pipes... :puffpipe:
Damn, Zack. It turns out you can be entertaining without Greta around. I never noticed. My mind was always um... elsewhere. 8)

 

tmb152

Can't Leave
Apr 26, 2016
392
5
Not to totally commandeer this thread but I'll jump back on here one last time quickly---
ssjones and zack: I can see the logic of activated charcoal and any binder, be it honey or gelatin, the charcoal would provide a similar thermally insulating effect to that of the silica, but as to uncoated bowls, not sure what your experiences are, but smoked reasonably, in time, the untreated bowl should build up a carbonized layer (burned) which has a close effect to the treated bowls anyway.
Sodium Silicate IS a hydrated silica, at least in its "water" glass form I should think, actually sodium silicate pentahydrate, and what would concern me about burning and inhaling it (in whatever small amounts available in a pipe bowl) is the fact that it is a carbonaceous form of silicon dioxide--- basically rock quartz, the cause of lung silicosis.
Myself, there are enough variables in pipe smoking unknown to me, and probably to be anguished over by the FDA in coming months to the detriment of us all, to add yet another variable like this, whose known characteristics are mostly NEGATIVE! ;^D

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,775
45,377
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I don't care whether a chamber is coated or uncoated. I've experienced no ill affects either way.
As for water glass, it's just another option. George used it to stabilize the walls of an antique pipe of mine because, properly used, it's the best material for the purpose. Better than simple pipe mud. That pipe smokes like a champ after having added a protective cake to it.
Anyone who has seen cross sectioned bowls knows that absorption of tars and fluids into briar is minimal, even with pipes smoked over decades. The worst damage come from heat cracks in the chamber walls.
While briar contains silicate that helps with its resistance to burning, that only goes so far.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,744
27,344
Carmel Valley, CA
ssjones and zack: I can see the logic of activated charcoal and any binder, be it honey or gelatin, the charcoal would provide a similar thermally insulating effect to that of the silica, but as to uncoated bowls, not sure what your experiences are, but smoked reasonably, in time, the untreated bowl should build up a carbonized layer (burned) which has a close effect to the treated bowls anyway.
You're lecturing two extremely knowledgeable members about cake build up as well as laying out a coatings seminar, based largely on your misunderstandings, and being insulting to boot. Wow.
I suspect charcoal is used as much for the color as thermal properties.
And any sugars, be they in tobacco, or a bowl coating, will provide material for the fine build up of a carbonaceous layer, aka cake.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,443
11,352
Maryland
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I took no offense, smoking is a risk we all take, coated or not.
As always, this is the most contentious subject about pipes. Preferences and passions run deep.

 

tmb152

Can't Leave
Apr 26, 2016
392
5
You're lecturing two extremely knowledgeable members about cake build up as well as laying out a coatings seminar, based largely on your misunderstandings, and being insulting to boot. Wow.
Well jpmcwjr, that is YOUR problem.  As with another person who has jumped in my face for no good reason, I wasn't even talking to you, I was only saying I think I understand the reasons for doing what the person was talking about, not "lecturing" anyone on anything, and I've been playing with cake build up myself for over 40 years, so what am I, a rank amateur? There was no "coatings seminar," and if there are any misunderstandings, it might only be from some people's use of informal colloquial language here whereas I am more used to talking with science professionals, or my misreading of something from being rushed for time. And as for your being insulted, I really don't care how or why.
You take honest, earnest interest in a topic as "lecturing."

You take sincere effort to contribute something worthwhile to the group other than the usual glib chit-chat as becoming a "seminar."

And you take my effort to dissect and analyze the topic in a meaningful way as being "insulting."
You do have a problem.
You don't question or critique anything I say, my conclusions, as being wrong or misunderstood and offer any counter-facts, you attack ME. When people go after the messenger rather than the message, it is usually because they have run out of real, valid arguments of anything worthwhile. What are you afraid of, that I might actually know something and steal the limelight from you and a few of your buddies with 4000 posts? I will be the first to admit that there are people here that know far, FAR more than me about brands and histories and things without a doubt, and are way more into collecting, and I've learned a lot of good things here. Pipes are a minor thing in my life and I devote only a small fraction of my free time to them, but I still love them.
But most everything about a pipe as to how it works and why is a physical process and can be understood by applied physics. Do people like you care at all the chilling effect your attitude might have on others here? How do you think newbies to this hobby will look upon asking questions or making comments when they read crap like what you wrote? You seem to think someone cannot have knowledge of pipes without having spent years here paying their dues.
I was going to talk about a microscopic examination of silica to justify my reasons why I think it should not be used to fix bowls or smoked no matter how well it might work as a patch cement, but you already think you know it all. I was going to discuss the changes that briar undergoes chemically and structurally, treated or untreated, as it is repeatedly charred, and how the cake contributes to that, but why bother? I might "lecture" or "insult" someone. And not because I think I know more than anyone else, but in order to get a gathering of knowledge-base on the subject so that others maybe newer to the hobby than us understand why "breaking-in" a pipe works and improves the function of the wood. Maybe it has been discussed before and lord knows you don't want a "new" guy writing about it again because you will automatically read into it that I am just "lecturing" you and think I know it all!
Geesh.
It isn't a "lecture" jpmcwjr just to go into detail on a subject. Believe it or not, some people come here wanting to read and learn. That is why some few write articles, not all of them just meant to be entertaining. It just so happens that I have a background in physics and technical writing so I tend to get technical and go into a lot of detail--- for accuracy's sake, not because I am intending to "lecture" anyone, but I shant waste very much of it here.
Shame. Here is the tobacco and pipe industry on the precipice of undergoing wholesale dramatic changes for the worse and people like you are actually discouraging folks from participating, contributing and helping.

 
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tmb152

Can't Leave
Apr 26, 2016
392
5
You seem to be a rather argumentative person.
How perceptive of you, Jeff. When attacked, I do offer a cogent defense. I am a trained litigator trained to go into court and offer expert evidence and win cases against everything from attorneys and judges right up to retired FBI agents. And if anyone thinks I'm kidding, I am not. Just the kind of person who might someday help prepare an argument to get these new draconian tobacco laws overturned and repealed, because, well-intended as they are, writing letters to your congressman will not get anything done. But I have just about had it with some few of the people on this group. In the end, we all get the government we deserve by who we vote for.

 

clickklick

Lifer
May 5, 2014
1,700
212
tmb152 wins! The End!
Seriously, nothing I say can change that!
But bowl coatings. . . . facts . . . they are really lacking. As is much that mystifies are small group of pipe smokers.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,744
27,344
Carmel Valley, CA
tmb152-
I did not attack you, Sir! I pointed out a couple of things. Now, had I said you were a fatuous, bloviated, contentious, over-weening c***, that would be an ad hominem attack, not in good form. So I definitely did not go there, and will not.
If a couple of us ruffle your feathers so thoroughly as to cause you to withdraw your defense of our passion as well as to leave this forum, are you really able to litigate live in a courtroom?
And, are you not a returnee under a new name/handle? If not, welcome to the forum!

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,443
11,352
Maryland
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I'm interested in hearing all sides of this debate, that will make me a more informed pipe smoker. Let's not forget, we're all part of a very small group, that is constantly under attack. So, let's keep it civil please.

 
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zack24

Lifer
May 11, 2013
1,726
2
Let's try this again-
Hydrated silica- Used in toothpaste as an whitening abrasive- Don't smoke toothpaste!!
Sodium silicate- Works great in pipes as a coating! Wouldn't suggest you dry it and inhale the powder in large quantities....any more than I'd suggest you stick your head in a bucket of dihydrogen monoxide and blow bubbles for 5 minutes...:)
Guys we all tend to do this- we take a fact or subject that we believe we understand and conflate it into a volume of knowledge...but if your original premise is based on crap, at best you'll end up with a large pile of crap...

 

robwoodall

Can't Leave
Apr 29, 2015
422
5
Damn.
I wanted to make a follow-up joke about dihydrogen monoxide in response to zack (that stuff can KILL YOU!), but I wasted a lot of time and now two people have posted between zack and me, so it would look dumb and out of context.
Stupid intermediary posters messed up my joke, grumble, grumble...

 

ericthered

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 29, 2014
511
2
Suffolk, VA
I wanted to make a follow-up joke about dihydrogen monoxide in response to zack (that stuff can KILL YOU!), but I wasted a lot of time and now two people have posted between zack and me, so it would look dumb and out of context
Rob, that's the beauty of the "quote" function! You can always be in context regardless of how many people post in between!
themoreyouknow.gif


 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,744
27,344
Carmel Valley, CA
Back to topic:
If you are adverse to pre-coated bowls as well as sanding, but must have THAT pipe, do the following:
Wet the chamber with water. Pour in plain sugar; let dry; pour out. Scrape off excess, esp at heel of bowl. Carefully load pipe, smoke. When finished, you'll have a nice thin carbon layer covering the previous coating. I've done that twice, but now I just smokes 'em as I get 'em.

 

tmb152

Can't Leave
Apr 26, 2016
392
5
Folks,
jpmcwjr: "And, are you not a returnee under a new name/handle? If not, welcome to the forum!"
Most definitely not. Never been here before. And thanks.
ssjones: I just wonder why this topic and some others are such a debate in the first place? Bowl coatings? Really? Seems to me someone could easily set up an experiment to test their effectiveness. I do know I love a recent pipe acquisition from Europe and it had no inner coatings at all. And I have a Peterson that was dip-coated and did not find it had any funny taste.
zack: To the best of my knowledge, the only differences between the silicas are some are hydrated and some are anhydrous, meaning that combined with an alkaloid (salt or sodium, an alkali metal) to make the silica chemically available, if the salt is bound with water, then it is a hydrated silica, if not bound with water then it is a anhydrous silica. It might work great as a coating as it IS a vitreous material, all I'm saying is that folks doing this might want to consider that--- sodium silicate might have desirable glass-like properties, but it is not a glass, an amorphous solid; the silica is not bound and is still free as individual little jagged bits to enter the lungs. But since someone famously said recently that without citations, things are only opinions, then here is a citation. Please read:
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925036

 
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