Options if order gets caught by Canada Customs

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marpipe

Lurker
Aug 19, 2013
10
0
Vancouver
I'd like to hear from someone who has had a shipment tagged by the CRA:
1. Are you REQUIRED to pay the duty/taxes OR can you refuse the package and pay nothing

2. What were the actual duties/taxes paid

3. Are there consequences for the shipper if they misrepresent the contents of the shipment?

3. What was the size of your order? It seems 8 oz and under slips by more easily than larger weights.
Thanks

 

novicemaker

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 12, 2014
223
0
Drive to USA buy tobacco, drive back. Read the forum, this issue has a thread already. Just a heads up.

 

marpipe

Lurker
Aug 19, 2013
10
0
Vancouver
Thanks for the info Junkyard...
The cost of lodging etc would far exceed the saving with a limit of importing 200g (7oz) of tobacco.
The highest duty I have seen mentioned on these forums was $9/oz but the info was secondhand. Given that figure, a single 16oz order could potentially cost over $200 if I was unable to refuse.
I think the best course of action, as you say, gamble, ship small (8oz) via USPS and play the odds - One canuck here had 2 out of 137 orders tagged - pretty good odds IMO. I have so far rec'd 3 8oz shipments without issue.
Moving to the US - Hmmmm tempting indeed!

 

northernneil

Lifer
Jun 1, 2013
1,390
1
Marpie, if you Google import tobacco tax and your province, it will lead you to a government of Canada website that will detail all of the provinces and their tobacco tax.
I strongly recommend paying all duties and accepting all packages if ordered. If you cannot afford the tax, don't order the package. As junkyarddog mentioned, you agree to the term and conditions at time of order.
I recommend 4noggins.com. They are a great website, and Rich is a wonderful person to deal with.
Welcome to the forums.

 

salmonfisher

Can't Leave
Feb 12, 2014
331
0
I refused a shipment I had sent to me, I also got reimbursed from whom I was buying. I now see that as a huge error on my part. A rookie move. I will be paying any and all duties going forward. Reason...if we refuse orders due to duty, those companies may just stop shipping across borders. I won't be hurting the BoB in future.

 

pruss

Lifer
Feb 6, 2013
3,558
370
Mytown
+1 Salmonfisher +1 Neil
I feel pretty strongly that if one can't afford the cost of their tobacco plus any potential duty and taxes, then that person shouldn't be ordering that much (any) tobacco in the first place.
Why? Because refusing to accept a shipment due to it being flagged by customs and tagged with duty and taxes ends up hurting the retailer. IF the package makes its way back to the originating business there is still a chance the tobacco cannot be restocked. If it can, then that company is out the following costs: shipping and labour (to fill, ship, receive and restock), plus any fees incurred due to payment method (credit card, paypal). If/when these costs are incurred the business owner is left to consider shipping to Canada as a gamble. If more people refuse these shipments, and the business owner incurs greater costs, the business owner may decide to choose not to sell to and ship to Canada. I've read, here and in other places, that this issue is what lead to Cigars International choosing not to sell to Canada after the purchase of Pipes & Cigars.
I assume that most of us in the online pipe-forum community recognize that ordering tobacco from international e-tailers means that we are importing tobacco. Because we are aware we are importing tobacco, we are also likely aware that these imports are subject to duty and taxes. In fact, the very nature that threads like this exist proves this point.
We, as smart consumers, should also be aware of the costs we are incurring for tobacco in our own provinces. Right now I'm paying between $27.00 and $33.00 for a 50g tin of tobacco. That works out to $19.57/oz or $313.26/lb for good quality pipe tobacco.
Will customs flag and tag every order from an online e-tailer? No

When they do, will the cost of your shipment still be equal to or less than the "street" cost of your tobacco in your home province? Yes
What should we, Canadians, do with regards to ordering tobacco online?

1) Only order what we can afford to purchase, with the assumption that the order will be tagged and charged duty and taxes.

2) Receive and pay for all orders, to maintain good standing with tobacco e-tailers/retailers.
*rantmodeoff*
$0.05 in the bucket.
-- Pat

 
Dec 24, 2012
7,195
457
marpipe - in what province are you located, what was the cost of your order, and how many ounces or grams? There is a thread on here where I did the math as to what the duties should be for Ontario and New Brunswick. As everyone know, the recent federal budget increased tobacco taxes yet again and last year's Ontario budget did likewise.
I agree with the guys above about paying the taxes but only if they are properly calculated. If they are not properly calculated (to your detriment, of course) you can decline the package and request that the duty be reassessed (i.e. recalculated) or pay the duty and then file a notice requesting a recalculation. One thing that drives me nuts is that some of the shipping programs the online retailers aren't all that precise, so if you order 200g, the online retailer puts 8 0z on the customs declaration, with the result that you get htagged based on 227 g not 200g. I have complained about this but they have told me that their online shipping program does this automatically.

 

dochudson

Lifer
May 11, 2012
1,635
12
if you guys are buying from an american retailer and it's gets as far as your customs then imo the problem is yours.. pay up don't screw the retailer. the retailers that refuse to ship north have probably been burned once too many times and it's not worth the hassle.

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,465
This does illustrate, to me anyway, that way too much law enforcement and regulatory energy is being applied to collecting

tariffs/taxes on homespun products like pipes and tobacco than should be. I hope they aren't exerting themselves on

this effort while the crazy fanatics are shipping the means of ugly mayhem across borders. I hope someone

is concentrating on priorities here.

 

marpipe

Lurker
Aug 19, 2013
10
0
Vancouver
Peckinpahhombre, I am in BC, I would appreciate seeing your calculation and source. Believe me, I have tried but it is very confusing, as you say even the customs office does not always calculate correctly. I only order 8oz (227g) per order, $12 for the tobacco and $14 for shipping.
I did discuss this with 4noggins and he said to just sent it back but I would not want to get him in any trouble.

 

novicemaker

Starting to Get Obsessed
Apr 12, 2014
223
0
If you are close enough to the border or have a buddy here in the US near by id just send them the money for the baccy and gas money and just do it that way.
Not that i am condoning this because boarder patrol can check vehicles but from what my buddy told me he would drive across from the US side and into Canada and was never pulled over or checked ever. He makes multiple trips a week up that way and just uses his personal car and takes things to his family up there.

 

marpipe

Lurker
Aug 19, 2013
10
0
Vancouver
Ok, did some more research:
It appears the tobacco would be disposed by the government if taxes are not paid (7b) . 7A makes no sense to me, it seems they would return the tobacco even if tax is paid?
The 23.9cents/g ($6.44/oz) tax payable may not be current, the document is dated 1996 and there may be federal tax on top of that.
Here's the source: http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96452_01#section3
"Tax on tobacco brought into British Columbia

3 (1) In this section, "consumer" means a person who
(a) resides, ordinarily resides or carries on business in British Columbia, and

(b) brings or sends into British Columbia, or acquires or receives delivery of in British Columbia, tobacco

(i) for the person's own consumption or use,

(ii) for the consumption or use by another person at the first person's expense, or

(iii) on behalf of or as the agent for a principal for consumption or use by the principal or by another person at the principal's expense.

(2) Unless subsection (3) or (4) applies, a consumer must immediately, at the time of bringing, sending, acquiring or receiving tobacco in British Columbia,

(a) report the matter to the director in writing,

(b) provide the director with all information that is required by the director regarding the tobacco, and

(c) subject to subsection (2.1), pay to the government the same amount of tax that would have been payable had the tobacco been purchased in British Columbia.

(2.1) For the purposes of subsection (2) (c) of this section, in the case of tobacco in the form of cigars, the taxable price referred to in section 2 (1.1) and (5) is deemed to be equal to the retail price of the cigar.

(3) A consumer who is an individual must immediately, at the time of bringing, sending or receiving tobacco, other than tobacco in the form of cigars, into British Columbia through a port of entry from a place outside of Canada,

(a) report the matter to a customs officer,

(b) provide the customs officer with all information that is required by the customs officer regarding the tobacco, and

(c) pay to the government the same amount of tax that would have been payable had the tobacco been purchased in British Columbia, by paying the tax to the customs officer as agent of the government.

(4) A consumer who is an individual must immediately, at the time of receiving tobacco, other than tobacco in the form of cigars, into British Columbia by post from a place outside of Canada,

(a) provide the postal agent where the tobacco is received with all information that is required by the postal agent regarding the tobacco, and

(b) pay to the government the same amount of tax that would have been payable had the tobacco been purchased in British Columbia, by paying tax to the postal agent as an agent of the government.

(5) Subsections (3) and (4) do not apply to tobacco if no tax is payable on the tobacco under Division III of Part IX of the Excise Tax Act (Canada).

(6) If a consumer fails or refuses to comply with subsection (3) or (4), the customs officer or postal agent may detain the tobacco.

(7) Tobacco detained under subsection (6) must be dealt with as follows:

(a) if, before the end of 60 days after the start of the detention, the tax payable on the tobacco at the time of its detention and any expenses related to the detention are paid and the requirements of subsection (3) (b) or (4) (b) are met, the tobacco must be returned to the purchaser;

(b) if the tax and expenses are not paid within the time limit referred to in paragraph (a) or the requirements of subsection (3) (b) or (4) (b) are not met, the tobacco is forfeited to the government and may be disposed of as directed by the director.
Tax on consumer

(3) A consumer must, at the time of making a purchase of tobacco in a form other than cigars or cigarettes, pay to the government a tax at the rate of 23.9¢ for each gram of tobacco purchased."
Also, watched this youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSneWRhanEM
No idea what amount he ordered but $31 would roughly equate to 20oz, that's $1.50/oz, much lower than any cases I have seen here. Then, the comments quote taxes all over the place. Who the heck knows????

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
11,835
16,379
SE PA USA
Well you know what they say - Canada. It is like living in a loft above a really good party!

Now that right there is funny.

But we won't be laughing much longer. Pipe tobacco taxes are on track for a steep rise in the US.

 

morton

Part of the Furniture Now
May 3, 2012
648
2
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
As a consumer of tobacco products purchased via internet, I would not in any circumstances do anything to mess up my tobacco e-tailor (mostly 4Noggins) as, taxed or not, hit with customs or not, I can get tobaccos that would be impossible to acquire any other way. Our pipe brothers in the USA are blessed to have a myriad of choices that we in Canada can only marvel at. If we don't screw this up, we can sample that same pool of choices. If returns and cranky Canadian customers, or a change of business philosophy (see Pipes and Cigars re: shipping to Canada) makes us unable to get the tobaccos we want, we will all be sadder for it. I agree with pruss : "can't pay?, don't play!"

 

yaddy306

Lifer
Aug 7, 2013
1,372
504
Regina, Canada
For BlackBerry, there's an app called "Canadian Duty Calculator" that's pretty handy.
You select your province, enter the amount you paid for the tobacco in dollars, and it calculates the total duty and taxes. One drawback is it is geared for cigarettes, so the only amount of tobacco you can calculate for is a carton (200) or a pack.

Still, it's interesting to see the differences between provinces.
There must be similar apps for iPhone and Android.

 
Dec 24, 2012
7,195
457
Peckinpahhombre, I am in BC, I would appreciate seeing your calculation and source. Believe me, I have tried but it is very confusing, as you say even the customs office does not always calculate correctly. I only order 8oz (227g) per order, $12 for the tobacco and $14 for shipping.
I am late to this thread.
The tobacco tax in BC was just increased and is now 23.9¢ per gram of loose tobacco.
So, BC tobacco tax = 23.9 x 227 = $54.25 (see http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=16642BDBE534442F94AED3A92A5D2047)
Federal tobacco tax = $6.57188 * 5 = $32.86 (remember the feds levy the same rate on a fraction of a 50g amount, so there are 5 50g amounts or fractions thereof in 227g)
BC Sales Tax & GST:
Value for sales tax is:
$13.04 (ie US$12 purchase price converts to $13.04 using, for simplicity, latest available exchange rate of 1.0867)
+ $54.25 (BC tobacco tax)
+ 32.86 (federal tobacco tax)
= $100.15 value for sales tax purposes
x 12% = $12.02 BC Sales Tax & GST
Summary:
The total tax a BC resident should pay on 8 oz of pipe tobacco with a value of US$12 is:
BC Tobacco tax: $54.25
Federal Tobacco Tax: $32.86
BC Sales Tax and GST: $12.02
Total Tobacco and Sales Taxes: Cdn $99.13
Plus, of course they will charge you an admin fee at the post office that is around $9.95 if I recall correctly.
It is interesting that the tobacco tax in BC is almost twice what it is in Ontario.

 
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