On Hipsters

[deathmetal]

Mixture 79 will put hair on your chest!

 

[perlasca]

Then hipsters. The guy who loads my lumber onto my truck has a beard, huge holes in his ears, and wears Atari shirts, sometimes with barrettes in his freakin' beard, ha ha. In a city that doesn't even have a coffeehouse.

Might be a lil late to the party but, the above here written by Cosmic got me thinking.

Are all hipsters alike? I mean where I come from a hipster is first noticed by how they dress.

Most wear a flat cap, Buddy Holly black framed glasses (May or may not be prescription),

Optional beard, the "Flannel" shirt is dressier and one size too small, next are the pants

not all ways jeans but, all ways tight (skinny Jeans), most likely dress shoes that narrow toward the toe.

May or may not have a full sleeve tattoo picked from a framed picture at the parlor.

I think the large gauge ear ring holes aren't "Hip" enough.

Oh and lets not forget to complete the outfit with them smoking a vape.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

It was a good poem though. I really enjoyed it. Yeh, I must just miss this section of the pipe world. My local pipe club has a pretty cross section of pipe guys; white collar management guys, blue collar, fun loving guys from the sticks, and some theater guys, and me. Manly men, and guys who take their shoes off and set Indian style on the floor, and guys with very polished shoes. And, we all love to hang out for a few hours a month and talk about the one thing that we all have in common. I'm not worried about the future of pipe smoking. I can find at least two guys in any parking lot with over 100 cars. I see pipe smokers every day as I drive to drop my daughter off at school. And, I have befriended quite a few pipe smokers in my area. I have guys who drop by during the day to talk pipes, and buy their wives something, or drop off something to get repaired or polished. Plus, there's all of you guys that I look forward to chatting with every day. I'm kind of in the middle of pipe culture. A room full of tobacco and pipes, pipes in my car, truck, tractor, shed, shop, studio. They see, to be spread out everywhere in my world. It's a wonderful hobby.

When golf was my thing, I blew way more money and had less friends involved, just a couple of clods that I talked golf with, no forum.

When jewelry was the center of my world, everyone was all catty and competitive.

Pipes has been the best hobby I've gotten into as far as social ability, travel, and just plain fun.
I can't speak for everywhere, but smokey Alabama where everyone started smoking in Jr High, is doing fine with pipes. Plus, having The Briary here since the early 70's with high end pipes and a charismatic owner has been a big help as well.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Perlasca, everyone is OK in my book, until they prove the self a complete moron or just bad news. But, despite how they dress, I don't judge them till they've had an opportunity to prove that they deserve otherwise. Biker, music shirts, old, young, what matters to me is whether someone is having a good time. And, they have to be able to tolerate me in my ties and smart as sense of humor... which may require more tolerance on their part than me, ha ha.

 

[mayfair70]

I don't judge people by the way they dress or decorate themselves and I think it can be foolish to do so. My problem with the original post is that it is a shallow system of determination of a person's character and will almost always be inaccurate. To predict another human being's value system based on superficiality and cultural cliche' is, in my opinion, arrogant and rather distasteful. The fact deathmetal brought up "intent" as a determining factor made it more intellectually palatable and I thought I knew what he meant. The truth, from my perspective, is you don't know what someone is like until you speak with them one-on-one, usually at length, and walk in their shoes. I use to dress in a suit and tie one day, a sweatshirt and clean jeans the next, and a holey T-shirt and raggy jeans the next. I felt equally at ease in all socioeconomic contexts. I did this to study human perception as an anthropological exercise. I quickly found that dishonest, egocentric, power-hungry and abusive people pervade all levels of social strata. The more money and influence they had, the worse their abuses became. In my view, the real enemies of western culture are those who take advantage of the weaker and more vulnerable of its citizens for profit, gain or pathological fulfillment. Unfortunately, many of these types of people now run our government. I don't care who you vote for in the next election, just vote. Politicians and diapers need to be changed frequently, and for the same reasons. In summary:
"All generalizations are false. Including this one."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93WRQ8HT_WA

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

A large portion of my life, especially as a teenager, I was pre-judged and mis-judged by many. Being into the metal scene, a lover of the genre of music known as Heavy Metal, I was a metal head... called by some a headbanger, or in some circles a freak (never quite understood that last one but whatever). So of course, because of my long hair, and ripped jeans, and tshirts with heavy metal album covers on the front, or in some cases on the back of a denim jacket, leather and spiked wrist bands and chains and jewelry of many sorts with skulls, I was immediately considered by many to be a drug addict or a satan worshiper or a criminal if not all three. All three of course were wrong. And if people had taken the time to get to know the real me as opposed to their perceived me, they would have understood this for themselves. So I made it a point as a teenager, later a young man, and even now in my lower forties, not to judge or prejudge people based on their appearance or music of choice, or anything else for that matter. Doing so, in my opinion, is saying that someone is beneath you, or below you in standard or status, or just plain saying you are superior to someone. And all those are wrong. I will not look down on someone if they are wearing a cowboy hat and western boots, nor will I look down on someone with tattoos and piercings all over their bodies. I will not look down on someone wearing skinny jeans, a flannel, and sporting a beard (or whatever hipster fashion it might be) either. I don't consider myself above anyone, so what right do I have to judge anyone else? Most people have their little cliques they belong to, and some fit into many. I say let them do whatever makes them happy without being negative toward them about it. So if someone is a "hipster," who really cares?

 

[mayfair70]

+1 anthonyrosenthal74 :clap:

 

[deathmetal]

The fact deathmetal brought up "intent" as a determining factor made it more intellectually palatable and I thought I knew what he meant.

One must look at the reasons why people do things.
This is balanced by the fact that people signal: they adopt certain dress and accessory behaviors to show others what they value.
Consider the difference between metalheads wearing Pantera, Burzum, Cannibal Corpse and Atheist t-shirts for example. Metalheads wear shirts to signal their sub-tribe within the tribe.
But, one must be careful when inferring intent. Some are simply new to the experience. And that was the point was the hipster thread 2.0

 

[pappymac]

The father of one of my granddaughters is a hipster. He's not a son-in-law because he was an idiot when she was born and only in the past couple of years has started climbing out of the whole he dug for himself, but I digress.
He could be the poster boy for hipsters. He wears the tight pants, "fashionable" pointy toed low cut shoes (I have no problem with pointy toes Cowboy boots), tight shirts, jewelry, has about a 4-inch long perfectly waxed and shaped chin beard and wears his hair in a man bun. On top of that, his chosen career is hair-dresser. Yep. He want to beauty school and makes good money as a hair stylist.
Anyway, we occasionally see him and a couple of times he has commented about wanting to quit cigarettes and take up pipe-smoking. I have taken the time to talk about pipe smoking with him and I even give him my P&C catalogs with the more economically priced pipes circled in red.

 

[deathmetal]

I don't consider myself above anyone, so what right do I have to judge anyone else? Most people have their little cliques they belong to, and some fit into many. I say let them do whatever makes them happy without being negative toward them about it.

I think you've made the wrong call here, more punk than metal in fact. Metalheads were judged but it was both (a) a wrong judgment because our culture did not emphasize some of those things but (b) also a correct judgment, given that many metalheads are simply scumbags and idiots. Store owners are wary of people with long hair because of the higher rate of shoplifting, not some ideological disagreement.
Appearance can signal intent. The point is that someone merely following a trend (beard, flannel) is not the same as a hipster, which is measured by intent. Some of that intent can be seen through dress, accessories, etc.
If you try to be all hippie and accept everyone, you've basically said that morons and liars are just as fine to you as people who have working brains. The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, I think.
And I say this as a metalhead with the same experiences you have had, but also some experience selling music to metalheads and interacting with them on a functional basis. There is a reason for the stereotypes.
Then there's this other extreme:

Music is just one way that popular culture has fractured since the seventies. Andy Warhol ensured that talentless hacks could make art. Punk rock and metal (for example) helped make sure talentless hacks could make music.

I agree on Andy Warhol however! Surely I'm going to hell for being judgmental.

 

[warren]

I do not think people judge people strictly on race, clothing and/or observed behaviors. If so it's a very superficial judgement. Initial judgements usually include, besides the obvious (attire and attitude), environment, time of day, and your purpose in the context of why you are making such an assessment in the first place. Prospective customer? Chainsaw murderer? Bed mate? Seat mate on a long flight? Mugger? Business rival? Suspect? The list is endless. Context always effects judgement to some degree.
Looking at a photo, in the comfort of your own home, is not the same as walking a nearly deserted street in a harsh section of town. Or, your initial judgement when looking at a hitch hiker. If you are touring San Francisco you will see certain types of attire and behavior which fit the environment. It's what you expect, perhaps even the reason you are there. But, that attire and behavior in an environment where it is not anticipated will arouse a very different feeling and cause an entirely different initial response on your part. Somewhere deep in the recesses of your brain, data such as past experience, education, self-protection, and similar available information are being sifted through. One of two results will determine your initial response; a simple, passing observation or, your autonomic responses will start to actuate. Or, if you are totally unaware of your immediate surroundings, oblivious, you are, what in my profession we judged to be, prey.
Your brain is always processing data which you are not consciously aware of. Sometimes you need to step away from yourself and analyze your initial call. In my case this could be true as I often had to defend my initial judgement and actions in a court of law (probable cause).

 

[deathmetal]

That's a good point, warren, regarding risk assessment.
Then there's social assessment:

http://www.neh.gov/about/awards/jefferson-lecture/tom-wolfe-lecture

 

[cigrmaster]

Probably still a sweet setup. My last venture into the electronics division of a major store had me disappointed: too much focus on geeky features, not enough on sound quality and power.

The distortion numbers back then were kind of high. I put a Denon Pre amp and power amp in my pool hall and it was perfect for 20 years. In my home in R.I I had a Yamaha 5.1 receiver and Boston Acoustics surround sound, it was sweet.
In my living room here in Fl, I have Polk Audio sound bar and powered sub woofer hooked up to my 70" Sharp Aquos tv. The room doesn't work for speakers behind me for surround sound.

 

[deathmetal]

That high distortion is partially what produced the warm 70s sound. Perfect for certain things, not so good for others.
I keep wanting to go back to quality studio monitors and a nice toasty analog amplifier...

 

[jmatt]

I intentionally have never opened this thread until today. And I didn't start at the beginning, I started on page 7 of 7. Because I just KNEW the conversation would have evolved to something other than the title. No idea what it would have evolved to, but knew it would have.
And y'all don't disappoint! :puffpipe:

 

[cigrmaster]

death, I hope you have lots of vinyl if you are going the old route. I don't think CD's are going to give you the sound you are looking for. I remember the days when we would even do research on what needles to buy for our turn tables. I think we would pay 50 bucks or more back then for really good ones.

 

[deathmetal]

I've always been fond of the vinyl sound. I don't mind the CD sound either, provided that the amplifier is good. Most of these one-dimensional amps seem to compress the sound in some misguided attempt at DSP and the result is the loudness wall that makes many contemporary recordings unlistenable for me.
Speaker balance is also essential. Studio monitors sound about right to me; consumer amps are too trebly or bassmonsters which drop the mids. If I was using vinyl on this rig, I'd make sure to get the vinyl from pre-1998 before they were using the CD masters to record the vinyl.

 

[deathmetal]

I do not believe for one second that actual members of Motley Crue sleep in an alleyway every night worshiping the Devil any more than someone who wears their T-shirts.

No, because generally speaking, Satanism in metal is metaphorical like most of the rest of the stuff (hobbits, dragons, vikings) they sing about.
But there are exceptions:

"Going beneath the symbolism, there's an understanding of how to apply it to daily life, knowing you are accountable for your here-and-now choices," said Ford's husband, Michael Ford, 39, a church co-president and an author of 23 books about Luciferian philosophy. "It's not something outside of yourself, not the work of some spiritual mother or father. You must seize the moment, plan ahead and avoid the trap of guilt."
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Greater-Church-of-Lucifer-plans-Halloween-opening-6576805.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKJxYwAYplk

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Vinyl is my preferred media of choice.

I also like film for pictures.
I wonder if girl pants are comfortable? ::

 

[deathmetal]