My Dog is Sick (No not really)

[kcghost]

Okay, I have a serious question for you guys. Primarily interested in hearing from guys who would like a better pipe but just can't pull the trigger on a quality artisan pipe.
If a firm offered a line of quality pipes in the $100-$200 range is there a real market for them? This would be something on the order of what Trever Talbert offers in his Ligne Britaigne series or what Briar Works Intl. is trying to do with their Icarus and Neptune pipes. For the purpose of this discussion I am omitting system pipes.
What I am looking for is a response to the question "How do we entice young/new/not-so-affluent smokers to to try smoking a premium pipe"?
Let's not be facetious here. In that price range you are not going to top of the line Rad Davis or Tonni Nielsen.
Comments?

 

[dochudson]

there are already a lot quality pipes out there in the $100-$200 range.

plenty of Tinsky's can be had under $200

these made in Premal's shop at Smokers Haven can be had for $129.

not sure what another $100~$200 would bring to the market.

 

[daimyo]

Chris Askwith recently started selling hand finished pipes along side his handmade line as well. Much of the Savinelli line resides in that same price point, along with countless other manufacturers. So yes, there is a market for pipes in the range but it is not scarcely populated at all. I'm always open to more options but there is no lack of good pipes these days. Ligne Britaigne is a particularly good value in my opinion but not really an option for the standard firm not sitting on a trove of European stummels.

 

[bigvan]

"How do we entice young/new/not-so-affluent smokers to to try smoking a premium pipe"?
Good question. I feel like I want to call "Bullsh/t!" every time someone makes the claim that their cob or their Dr. Grabow or even their Savinelli or Peterson smoke "better and cooler" than any high end pipe. If you believe that better materials and workmanship make a better product, there's no way this can be true. I think this attitude/rationalization of 'cheap is all you need' might be preventing young or new smokers from trying a Ligne Bretagne or a Briar Works or one of Wayne Teipen's Heritage line of pipes.
So the next time you read "all you need is a cob/Grabow/el-cheapo pipe", maybe interject "there's always a cut above. Why not give one a try and see the difference for yourself?"

 

[misterlowercase]

I think there's a pretty big buzz with instagram and other venues,

http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/list-of-pipemakers-on-instagram
...and joints like TPC

http://www.tobacco-pipe-collectors.mybigcommerce.com/new-pipes/
And the the others that were mentioned too.

If a firm offered a line of quality pipes in the $100-$200 range is there a real market for them?

I think so, it's there to be had, although the field seems to be getting a bit overcrowded, the key is to make a big splash - take a valiant effort to make a market as opposed to just entering the market.
I have no business sense whatsoever, and really have no idea.

 

[necron99]

"Your" dog, that kind of talk could be a symptom of a toxic relationship that is why the individual k9 is suffering illness.

 

[settersbrace]

To the remarks concerning cobs I'll say this. I'd rather start out a person who's on the fence as to whether they want to spend $80-$200 on a beginner pipe and get them enjoying and appreciating pipe tobacco with a good cob over a basket pipe or drug store pipe that's guaranteed to turn them off before they finish their first bowl. If I "give" them a MM cob and sell them some samples of various, premium tobaccos along with cleaners and a Czech tool and give them a demonstration on loading, lighting and properly smoking the pipe, there's a good chance they'll have a positive experience. I take the time to explain the virtues of owning a well made pipe but first we owe the customer an opportunity to really see if pipe smoking is a hobby they want to persue. Yes, there are those who have more money than brains and will come in and buy a hand made artisan pipe as their first but damn few ever come back in. It's the ones who keep coming back, upgrading their collection and exploring new blends that we want to see.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Cobs have their place in the pipe world, and it's a good hunk of it too. Lots of people love them. But, if someone is wanting to really explore the world of smoking a pipe, they'll at least buy one good briar to give it a whirl. Some will stick to cobs, but any will really go with it. Even though I'm never giving up my briars, I'm still curious about these thing-a-ma-jig metal pipes and mortas and strawberries. I'll probably get one if each, just for the experience, eventually.
These pipes will really need to be different, to stay afloat, IMO. There are too many companies just doing "the usual" in pipes, but the ones that really stand out have something about them that shines. Savinellis sexy use of line and form. Peterson's stubby chunky look. Nording's Viking gods of the ice and cold. Stanwell's Classic Van Gogh look, well, not the brush strokes, but stacks of hay, wheel barrows, funny hats. Tsuge's modern Japanese look. That sort of thing. These are just things that cross my mind when I think of those brands. The rest of the companies in that price range, just make pipes. Nothing special. Or at least, that's my assessment. But, the "look" of the pipe, and associating that pipe with something other than just wood and rubber is what keeps my attention.

And it must work for these companies, because most of us know these brands more than whoever else is out there making pipes.

 

[papipeguy]

Please indulge my dullness here as I'm trying to understand this discussion. I think we all agree that there are many price levels for every taste but the question from kcghost seems to be is there room for another mid priced pipe line.

ghost, is this a market research driven question? There may be room for another pipe maker in that range.

On how do we get pipe smokers to step up a grade with their pipes? I'm not sure why this would be a concern for most of us. I'm happy for those who do move to the next level in quality pipes but I'm also fine with those who are satisfied with where they are.

So I guess I'm looking for more clarification re the questions posed here.

 

[tuold]

I can't see anyway you could get somebody who is merely curious about pipe smoking to jump right in with a $200.00 purchase. I certainly did not approach it that way when I started.
So to answer your question in a round about way, first you need to get them interested generally in pipe smoking. That's a huge step in itself. Once they are in smoking cobs (not very cool) and Grabows you need to sell the style more than the substance. Once they get hooked on the style it's a much shorter hop to quality.
(By the way, I just bought my first new Peterson. I'm sitting here holding it in my hand (while clenching an old beat up estate LHS) admiring the beauty of it and have been doing so for almost a week. Maybe sometime I'll actually put some tobacco in it and smoke it!)

 

[macbean]

I hear you about cherishing a Peterson. I recently completed my Castle Collection with the Glin, and I, too, admired the beauty of it. . . for about 30 seconds while I frantically pried off the top of a new tin. . .

 

[rangerearthpig]

"How do we entice young/new/not-so-affluent smokers to to try smoking a premium pipe"?
Good question. I feel like I want to call "Bullsh/t!" every time someone makes the claim that their cob or their Dr. Grabow or even their Savinelli or Peterson smoke "better and cooler" than any high end pipe. If you believe that better materials and workmanship make a better product, there's no way this can be true. I think this attitude/rationalization of 'cheap is all you need' might be preventing young or new smokers from trying a Ligne Bretagne or a Briar Works or one of Wayne Teipen's Heritage line of pipes.
So the next time you read "all you need is a cob/Grabow/el-cheapo pipe", maybe interject "there's always a cut above. Why not give one a try and see the difference for yourself?"

I'm sure most of us are trying to find personal pleasure in this hobby, not seeking to impress you...

If a cob smokes great for one person, why does he need your gold plated one? Different strokes. Not everyone's wallet is as fat as yours.

 

[ravkesef]

Bigvan, there are some people who will never be able to afford a high-end pipe, and maybe they need to feel that they're getting a great smoke. Let's not put them down. I always tell a new smoker or one of modest means that you can get a great smoke with a cob. Why? Because I believe it to be true. Maybe not as great as my Castello Sea Rock, but a great smoke nonetheless. I love my MMs and my Old Dominion cobs, and hardly a day goes by that I don't smoke one, and I wouldn't do that if I didn't enjoy them. And yes, I could easily pick up one of my Dunhills, Cavicchi, Castello, two pipes that I got from Paolo Becker on my last visit to Rome ...and believe me, the name dropping of the pipes in my stable hasn't even started yet, but I refuse to put down a man whose means are humbler than mine, and say "Bullshit" to his desire to enjoy a good smoke.

I'm retired, and I've been fortunate, and blessed by God. I can buy just about any pipe I want, though I have a mental limit for what I'm willing to pay. I have my share of artisanal pipes, and the last pipe I bought was one of the Stanwells on sale at P&C.

I saw the Icarus and Neptune pipes at the Chicago Show, and I was impressed. Of course I have no idea how they'll smoke, but you can bet that it won't be long before I find out.

Bottom line, I think there would be a market for quality pipes in that price range. The last thing I'd want to do is scare a young smoker off by telling him that he won't be able to experience a good smoke unless he shells out $800 for a pipe made by X. I can still remember being an impecunious undergraduate in 1960, admiring GBD pipes, but unable to afford them because they started at $15. So...our new smoker might not be able to spring for a production pipe in TE $100-200 range, but Settersbrace is in the business--train him/her right from the outset, and s/he will migrate upward to the better production pipes or hand-finished models. As to whether s/he will buy an artisanal pipe in the future, well that depends on a great many other factors besides one's enjoyment of pipe smoking.

 

[bigvan]

I never said smoking a cob or Grabow or other cheap pipe couldn't be enjoyable. My point was that better materials and craftsmanship would yield a better pipe and therefor a better smoking experience.
The original question, as I heard it, was how to convince new smokers who are already considering stepping up to a higher end pipe to make the change? I was saying that we encourage them to decide for themselves because there are many better made pipes for not much more money.
Ranger, this is not about impressing anyone. Again, the question was regarding guys who are already considering trying something new. And a $150 Wayne Teipen Heritage pipe is hardly "gold plated".
Rav, I didn't intend to put anyone down and I don't think I did. Disagreement is not an insult. If someone makes a claim that "it doesn't get any better than a cob", I simply disagree.

 

[rangerearthpig]

Fair enough bigvan. It's difficult to grasp the tone of words typed on a chat board. I obviously misinterpreted you. 8)

 

[ravkesef]

Me too, Bigvan. I misinterpreted your response and for that I apologize.
Of course, I fully agree with you that a well-crafted artisanal Pipe will offer things that a cob couldn't possibly hope to achieve. For that matter, a well-made production Pipe would also outstrip a cob in many respects. Nonetheless, for those just starting out, I think were both agreed that a new smoker needs to walk before he can run, sometimes even crawl before he can walk.

By the way, one advantage that a corncob offers the neophyte that most briars don't, is the advantage of no break-in period. Let us say that we have a new, or relatively new smoker who has the money to buy a better pipe, any wishes to get started in the hobby. We walk into Settersrace's store with him, and we explain to him that here's a good tobacco, and here are some excellent pipes. However, you need to understand that the first 10, 20, perhaps even 30 smokes on this Pipe won't be as good as you expect them to be until a certain amount of cake is built up, and the pipe really comes into its own. What might be his response? I have a Castello that tasted great on the first puff, but not all of them do. And I have a Cavicchi that I really had to grit my teeth and work on to get it to deliver the goods. Now, it offers a supernal smoke, but it certainly didn't at first.

Back in the old days of the plentiful B & M, the owner would often swap out a stem, and offer to smoke the pipe for a while until it was broken in, and then return it to the customer, replacing it with the customer's own stem.

These days, I suspect most of the newer pipe smokers are younger sorts, and they're probably like I was, when even a $15 GBD was way, way out of reach. We've got to start them with something affordable because if we tell them that they have to shell out a couple of bills for even a modest grade pipe, they'll back off in a hurry, and we will have lost them to cigarettes. I suspect that once they get enthused about Pipe smoking, and see how wonderful it really is, their natural desire for something better will move them at the scale.

 

[kcghost]

I appreciate the response, particularly those that were on topic.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

As far as I can tell a budget model from Savinelli (etc.) should be as good as anything, but you have to distinguish between diminishing returns, and value for money.

Your minimum investment will always give the best value from a diminishing returns point of view, going from nothing to something.

From that point of view the Missouri Meerschaum Ozark Mountain is the best pipe I own, and even without considering cost it's hands down it's my best clencher, incredibly light and the stem is replaceable. The downside is it has a loose tenon, big draft hole (you get more bits of tobacco, though it does reduce gurgling too), it's kind of hard to clean out the bowl and it's not briar (which is supposed to be more heat resistant, but is a nice hard wood at the very least), so there's still room for improvement.

On my mid-range pipes (nearly a dozen, just over $100 on average), the draft hole is perfectly centred, the bowl is tapered, the tenon is tight, functionally I can't think of anything I would want improved.

At the same time I do appreciate precise geometry and a good polish, those things take time, skill and effort. I'm more than willing to put down good money for fine craftsmanship, if a high end pipe pops up that has all the right features I won't hesitate.

The high end pipe is a good value, but the primary attraction is aesthetic, I just can't peg the minimum price for a practically perfect pipe anywhere above $100.