Legends of today

[w2irt]

Greetings all. I'm a relatively new pipe smoker. I'm in my 50s and started with cigars in 2010, so I'm still quite overwhelmed on many fronts. When I've chatted with fellow pipers over the last few winters many old-timers are waxing poetic about 759 or BSOSM, etc, and how this company or that is trying to re-create these legendary mixtures.
But aren't we in a new golden age of pipe tobaccos now? What, in your opinion, are the current production tobaccos that are every bit as complex and wonderful as those old legends of forty years past? Tobaccos we can now buy for about ten bucks a tin in the U.S. that will be spoken of in hushed and reverential tones forty years from now?
From my understanding, back in the 60s and 70s Balkan Sobrainie, et al, were not particularly rare nor overly expensive. I'm not going to bring Stonehaven, Penzance or other exotics into the discussion, but rather ask what tobaccos can we buy easily and relatively-inexpensively that you think will become the stuff of legends when our grandkids take up the pipe.
We're now two generations removed from some of those legendary mixtures. Surely there must be leaf currently grown that's of better quality than that of yesteryear, no?

 

[sablebrush52]

That's a very interesting question. A number of favorites of today, like Full Virginia Flake, have been around for quite a while. I can't predict what will be the legends of tomorrow, but I can relate what I like today. In the realm of Sobranie clones, I'd place both WhiteKnight and Black House at the top as faithful recreations. FVF is one of the most cellared blends. Capstan Blue continues to be a favorite that's also been around for many decades. St James Flake, McCranie's Red Ribbon and Red Flake, Old Dark Fired, Gaslight, Anniversary Kake, Astley 44, John Aylesbury Luxury Flake, Escudo (another blend with a long history), Abingdon, Blackpoint, Haddo's Delight, Sixpence, Westminster, Tashkent, Marlin Flake, Red Rapparee, Hal O The Wynd, Solani Slver Label 660, Balkan Sasieni are but a few of the excellent blends available.

 

[aggravatedfarmer]

I'm a legend of today. :mrgreen:

 

[mikestanley]

In the 60' s, 70's and the 1980's no blend

was rare or expensive. Things changed without

much notice when production of blends were

moved to "the continent" to bypass English

purity laws. Shortening in house aging, the

Switch from 2 oz. to 50 gr. packaging. The tinkering

with blends to eliminate various leaf from mixes

Then , it seemed all of the sudden that blends

Just stopped showing up on shelves. Before

the internet, these things were found out at

Pipe shows or paper publications . I got caught with

my pants down with a couple of blends.

My biggest worry for the future is the loss

Of internet sales. I get most by far of my tobacco

at B&M stores but many rely on the internet.

Curtail internet sales and I believe we would

lose many of the blends we enjoy today. As far

As my future classic list...too much GLP to

mention. Solani 633, a dozen or more McClelland

blends. Maybe Magnum Opus. Many right now .

Mike S.

 

[misterlowercase]

In the 60' s, 70's and the 1980's no blend

was rare or expensive. Things changed without

much notice when production of blends were

moved to "the continent" to bypass English

purity laws. Shortening in house aging, the

Switch from 2 oz. to 50 gr. packaging. The tinkering

with blends to eliminate various leaf from mixes

Then , it seemed all of the sudden that blends

Just stopped showing up on shelves.

Good points Mike,

thanks for weighing in.

What, in your opinion, are the current production tobaccos that are every bit as complex and wonderful as those old legends of forty years past? Tobaccos we can now buy for about ten bucks a tin in the U.S. that will be spoken of in hushed and reverential tones forty years from now?

Legends are kind of strange and difficult to peg what will eventually become one.
I'll agree with what has been mentioned so far, and add Motzek Strang as it is already a legend in its own right.

Maybe Wessex BCDF, maybe also the currently available Irish-style plugs.

Maybe a couple of boutique blenders like Compton's or Steven Books.

Surely there must be leaf currently grown that's of better quality than that of yesteryear, no?

Yes, there are quality baccies grown today, but many of the more exotic varietals are no longer around.
But, largely, what I personally think is missing, are the olde processing techniques which were very time & labor intensive, the methods of manufacture (many of which are lost to time) of the old UK baccy companies is what made their stuff so special methinks.
And the packaging too,

cutter tops are legendary for good reason,

look here:

https://youtu.be/qLU5zfVOkt4?t=2m39s
The Danes are becoming more Anglocentric these days, and in my mind, that's a great thing.

I'm glad to see any player pick up the torch and do it up proper,

and they're doing some good things in line with the old UK manufacturing techniques.

::

 

[neverbend]

W2IRT, you present some interesting questions and ideas. Some rambling thoughts.
If quantity in choice makes this a Golden Age of pipe tobacco, then I’d agree, although I suspect that many marques are duplications. I think that there’s a lot of creativity in the business but there are several factors that frame what is possible.
The acreage dedicated to growing tobacco is shrinking, especially in traditional areas like the USA. The cigarette industry controls as much of any crop as they need or care to, from any country. The Gawith companies acknowledge that they source African Virginia and it’s good leaf, but different. Tobacco crops change over time, even year to year and also by growing region and they shouldn’t be thought of in static terms.
Even through the 1970s, pipe tobacco manufacturers could readily source the best leaf because there was sufficient tobacco for the cigarette manufacturers. Around 1980 I was selling a 14oz tin of Captain Black for $8.50, Balkan Sobranie #759 for $3.75 (50 grams) and Gallaher products close to $3.00. 1.5oz boxes of ‘Drugstore’ blends were around $1.25. On a percentage basis, that’s a wide range of prices.
Taste has moved toward stronger tobacco (cigars and pipes) that weren’t popular in years past. With respect to the other posters, I don’t believe that the manufacturing processes of companies like Sobranie and McConnell are known, understood or emulated with any degree of success. McClelland, beginning in 1977, was a restoration of fine USA made tobaccos but their products then, and now, never had the complexity and nuance of the English manufacturers.
I’ve not tasted any copy of Sobranie (as made under the Redstones) that reminds me of them other than in general type and strength. Kohlhase made Rattray’s isn’t the same as when McConnell made it. You can have the formula but you need the leaf and process. Even the top sauce that Sobranie and McConnell used, coumarin, is no longer available to add to tobacco, (illegal in most countries).
The demand for pipe tobacco has increased disproportionately because of hoarding or ageing. This wasn’t a factor years ago. When cellars are satiated I fear that many tobacco manufacturers will go out of business. I find many mixtures are sold with insufficient age because customers tolerate and even expect it and simply add it to their cellar. In years before ageing was, de rigeur, manufacturers expected their products to be used (rather) immediately.
Syrian Latakia and St. James Perique are no longer available and much of the current Latakia is tar processed (sticky). Carolina was once the richest of the American grown bright leaf crops but what I’ve found available today is much like what was once called Maryland, a mild filler tobacco.
Orientals are derived from Virginia seed but the soil made it a very different leaf. Even as recently as the mid 1980s, Orientals were very similar to each other in taste and aroma other than Basma A that was prized, costly and highly fragrant.
On a positive note, (I apologize if I seem otherwise negative), todays Orientals have evolved individual characteristics so that Smyrna, Izmir and Macedonian (examples that I use) are quite different, just as the Cuban seed (cigar) crops in Central America evolved.
To me, there is a bottom line, if you like a tobacco, it’s good. When I open a tin of 2000 Red Rapparee I don’t expect that it will be the same (or as good) as it was in 1980, but it’s still a fine tobacco and I enjoy it. I do think that we should all be filling our cellars with what we like because the shrinking crops and avid tax collectors threaten our enjoyment if we don’t.

 

[peteguy]

I am predicting Warhorse plug to be the next stuff of legends. No pressure guys.

 

[rfernand]

Peterson says they are busier than ever, and we certainly have no shortage of choice from dedicated artisans making pipes and producing blends. I think the Internet has made it more convenient than ever for people to explore their hobbies and connect with others.

 

[deathmetal]

The market has changed; in 1980, pipe-smoking was still a common habit, while now it's a hobby.
I see more market consolidation (sort of like how Orlik and Mac Baren make a wide range of blends) but at the same time, a keener focus on what works.

 

[michaelmirza]

Even the top sauce that Sobranie and McConnell used, coumarin, is no longer available to add to tobacco, (illegal in most countries).

First of all, thank you so much for the rich history, neverbend! Fascinating stuff. And now for a small side note. I saw a new Daughters & Ryan blend on SmokingPipes that's topped with coumarin/tonka: http://www.smokingpipes.com/tobacco/by-maker/Daughters-Ryan/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=189418

 

[mvmadore]

"Legends" are a difficult measurement and tend to grow with time and the telling.

Comparisons are impossible as we can't go back in time to sample these "legendary" tobaccos to make comparisons.

At least to my way of thinking.
Add to it the aging, where and how is very important, factor.
We are more technologically oriented today and that may give us an edge in understanding the growing process and quality of the leaf but is that balanced by the possible wearing of the soils, use of fertilizers, weed/insect control chemicals, weather changes, etc.

As it is more of a "hobby" now rather than a normal activity of past periods does that mean we, the growers, buyers, etc., pay more attention and put more effort into the growing, etc. of tobacco for people that may have more discriminating tastes, knowledge and varieties that our smoking ancestors?
I think we are perhaps in a minor golden age because of the reasons above and that we are a smaller, "hobbyist" group compared to a far greater percentage of the population of the past. Also because of "social media" we can reach out, talk to and become involved in the industry far more than the average pipe smoker of a generation or more ago. Imagine reading articles, listening to podcast interviews, etc. of makers, tobacconists, tobacco farmers, etc. back in the 60's.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Meridian will likely be a much lamented blend in decades to come. Very good English, and rivals alot of the more luxury labels for complexity.

 

[ray47]

I would say Cornell & Diehl blends like Old Joe Krantz, Pegasus, Haunted Bookshop. Morley's Best, Epiphany, Big & Burley, Briar Fox, Billy Budd, Burley Flakes and Autumn Evening.

 

[misterlowercase]

... I don’t believe that the manufacturing processes of companies like Sobranie and McConnell are known, understood or emulated with any degree of success.

I agree.
I was pointing to the Danes mostly in reference to steam-jacketed presses and the continuance of certain distinctly cased everyman style of UK baccies.
The old world stuff like McConnell's rotating copper cylinders or Rattray's toasting table, amongst many other specialized machineries and esoteric processing methods, are left only to the whispers of a bygone history, it indeed does seem.
Great post Neverbend!

:clap:

Thanks for taking the time for a comprehensive outlay,

intensely interesting.

::

 

[neverbend]

MichaelMirza said…

First of all, thank you so much for the rich history, neverbend! Fascinating stuff. And now for a small side note. I saw a new Daughters & Ryan blend on SmokingPipes that's topped with coumarin/tonka: http://www.smokingpipes.com/tobacco/by-maker/Daughters-Ryan/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=189418

Thanks for the link because I looked into the 1964 law that prohibits coumarin in food but not (necessarily) in pipe tobacco. I’ll be interested to try it. I blend with coumarin for myself.
MvMadore said…

"Legends" are a difficult measurement and tend to grow with time and the telling.

Comparisons are impossible as we can't go back in time to sample these "legendary" tobaccos to make comparisons.

At least to my way of thinking.

Add to it the aging, where and how is very important, factor.

We are more technologically oriented today and that may give us an edge in understanding the growing process and quality of the leaf but is that balanced by the possible wearing of the soils, use of fertilizers, weed/insect control chemicals, weather changes, etc.

As it is more of a "hobby" now rather than a normal activity of past periods does that mean we, the growers, buyers, etc., pay more attention and put more effort into the growing, etc. of tobacco for people that may have more discriminating tastes, knowledge and varieties that our smoking ancestors?

I think we are perhaps in a minor golden age because of the reasons above and that we are a smaller, "hobbyist" group compared to a far greater percentage of the population of the past. Also because of "social media" we can reach out, talk to and become involved in the industry far more than the average pipe smoker of a generation or more ago. Imagine reading articles, listening to podcast interviews, etc. of makers, tobacconists, tobacco farmers, etc. back in the 60's.

Very thoughtful post.
Ageing changes tobacco, smoothing at the expense of distinction, but there hasn’t been any measure of control until recent years and no experts (but lots of opinions). The reason that so many ‘legendary’ blends were discontinued was their decline in sales before hoarding/ageing.
I’d believe that advances in horticulture make crops more consistent but I fear that pipe tobacco is an afterthought with tobacco growers and only a few small niche companies specifically serving the pipe trade. In volume we smoke much less pipe tobacco than in years past but I think that smokers have become more discriminating.
The level of discussion about pipes, tobaccos, etc., is clearly in a Golden Age. I don’t think that I’ll ever taste anything like the tobaccos that McConnell produced again (I’m trying) but that shouldn’t be a factor when enjoying a bowl of quality tobacco made this week.

 

[deathmetal]

As it is more of a "hobby" now rather than a normal activity of past periods does that mean we, the growers, buyers, etc., pay more attention and put more effort into the growing, etc. of tobacco for people that may have more discriminating tastes, knowledge and varieties that our smoking ancestors?

I think that's the crux of it there. In the past, the pipe smoker went down to his local pharmacy or tobacconist and had his pick of many brands, bought whatever favorite was available or near-miss was price appropriate, and then smoked it in a pipe he had purchased with a similarly casual approach. He used those until they burned out, clogged up or got lost, and then got another. It was a part of regular life. Now it is a focal point as a hobby, designed to distract us from normal life and make us feel pampered. That changes many things.

 

[neverbend]

DeathMetal said...

I think that's the crux of it there. In the past, the pipe smoker went down to his local pharmacy or tobacconist and had his pick of many brands, bought whatever favorite was available or near-miss was price appropriate, and then smoked it in a pipe he had purchased with a similarly casual approach. He used those until they burned out, clogged up or got lost, and then got another. It was a part of regular life...

This does describe, in general terms, many pipes smokers in the past but certainly not all. The delineation between Drugstore and Tobacconist smokers (pipes) was more distinct than I see today.
DeathMetal also said...

...Now it is a focal point as a hobby, designed to distract us from normal life and make us feel pampered. That changes many things.

I think younger people have greater, overt, interest in experiencing fine tobacco, wines, etc., abetted and amplified by the Internet. I see new smokers being introduced to better tobaccos and techniques earlier in the learning cycle. The tobacco trade was my living for too long for me to think of it as a 'hobby' but even in the 1970s I spoke of tobacco as an affordable luxury.

 

[deathmetal]

The delineation between Drugstore and Tobacconist smokers (pipes) was more distinct than I see today.

Not really on point -- here's the point being made: Social acceptance meant that the pipe smoker could go about his task as a normal part of life, shared with others, with normal methods. Now the pipe-smoker must specifically seek it. Does that clarify the direction of the comment?

I see new smokers being introduced to better tobaccos and techniques earlier in the learning cycle. The tobacco trade was my living for too long for me to think of it as a 'hobby' but even in the 1970s I spoke of tobacco as an affordable luxury.

That's why people refer to it as a hobby: people get into it not a a functional habit (see first point above) but as a luxury, recreational and personal identity activity. As a result, they are more likely to get in-depth, where previously, the smoker chose tobaccos and pipes much as smokers choose cigarettes today.

 

[newbroom]

Well, I 'got into it' a a functional habit. So? Are I not a people? I would be a drugstore guy except for these forums and the internet marketplace.

 

[neverbend]

With respect, and not to be contentious (and we're off topic). Your initial post doesn't mention social acceptance, rather you state that smokers were casual in selecting pipes, tobaccos and then the care of those pipes and that's too broad a generalization.
You say social acceptance (second post) and I'll add to that legality, and obviously both make purchase and where you can smoke more difficult.
DeathMetal said...

That's why people refer to it as a hobby: people get into it not a a functional habit (see first point above) but as a luxury, recreational and personal identity activity.

This is exactly why men have purchased pipes for generations. From marketing to stores like Alfred Dunhill in the 1920s through G. Lorenzi in the 1980s, pipes were sold as a personal accoutrement. That's why pipe advertisements showed dashing men with their pipes.
People take up a hobby and they develop a habit. Habits aren't all bad but, socially and when it comes to smoking, the word hobby is more appealing. I accept that you consider it a hobby.

As a result, they are more likely to get in-depth, where previously, the smoker chose tobaccos and pipes much as smokers choose cigarettes today.

Again, with respect, I don't think you have context. I sold tens of thousands of pipes to thousands of smokers and they were every bit as conscious of their choices in pipes as smoker today, perhaps more. I would agree that, formerly, smokers tended to buy a narrower range of tobaccos than they do today.