Lakelands - An Attempt To Understand The Famous Gawith Scents

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flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Congratulations lowercaseman on yet another example of erudition and scholarship, enhanced by reborn's gallery of images from the legendary SG and peterpiperuk's important SG link. I agree that the scents used in snuff making almost certainly contributed to these experiments in tastes/aroma. But have you considered the 'showing off' element of the aroma to bystanders in Edwardian days (in another thread I suggested that this was the only reason the noisome "Clan" still exists)? I can just imagine some posh gent sashaying around a drawing room emitting clouds of perfumed smoke in order to impress!
However I must raise a point of order - in the British House of Commons it would be "Mr Speaker, A POINT OF ORDER, SIR?"
The crucial point of order here is that not all Kendal tobaccos should be tarred with the same perfumed brush, the disgusting taste of which rightly irritates most North American brethren. The Kendal tobacco artisans include Samuel Gawith and Gawith Hoggarth & Co who IMHO, across the board, make the best tobaccos in the world today. But they have a wide range of products, and some of them are disgustingly perfumed.
In respect of GH flakes, anything with the word "aromatic", "A' wudna touch wi' a shitty stick", in the North West England vernacular of my youth! But if you applied the "Lakeland" disparative to all GH flakes you would miss out on Dark Flake, Balkan Flake and BB No 2, all majestic flakes with nary a trace of perfume. Not to mention the unique ropes and twists that have never been near a scent of any kind, unless it is the smoke of the curing flue!
Similarly with SG - avoid most like the veritable plague, but don't forget that the divine BBF, FVF and 1792 Flakes have no so-called 'Lakeland essence' yet are indeed tobaccos from Kendal, in the English Lake district and 'pari passu' are "Lakeland" Flakes.
So, the point of order, Sir, is that not all that is scented is Lakeland and not all Lakeland's are scented!!
My serious point is that the wider smoking fraternity might wrongly be "put off the scent" (pun!) of some wonderful tobaccos simply because they are crafted in Kendal by GH or SG in the Lakeland of North West England.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Peterpiperuk, sincere apologies. I'm working on my loquacity! but, LOL, I gave some specific examples and I hope you enjoyed the political analogy.

 

dochudson

Lifer
May 11, 2012
1,635
12
don't know about all the history or finer points above but I have pounds of SG 1792 and pounds of GH Bosun Cut Plug jarred away.

 

gnatjulio

Lifer
Mar 22, 2012
1,945
937
56
New York
Excellent read and thanks for posting. I'm looking forward to rereading it on my larger screen actually.
When I first started smoking a pipe, I cracked open a tin of GH&Co Rum Flake. I was put off by the flowery essence (before I even knew what a Lakeland blend was), and ended up shelving the tin. A few months down the road I went back to the tin of Rum Flake and found myself craving the essence a little bit from then on. I've got three pounds of the stuff in my cellar now. While not in my regular rotation it jumps in to my rotation for about 2 weeks, as a nice little break from my Va's, VaPers and English blends and sits somewhere in my list of top ten favorites.

 

bryanf

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 16, 2013
742
8
I look at lakelands as being an aromatic with balls. I like the sweet taste, but enjoy the punch. Also, the room note is very nice for non-smokers, from what I'm told.
I think that aromatic smokers looking for more nicotine might enjoy ennerdale. I love 1q, for instance, but find it very weak in nicotine. Don't get me wrong. The two taste completely different.
Something about lakelands to me. The only flavour I find myself craving all day long.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Sorry bryanf, "her at home" has left the room and I'm on the port and Cob Plug (crafted in the lakeland). Call me a pedant if you will - I will regard it as a compliment! But please be specific lol! Do you mean the 'perfumed' lakelands or the ones like FVF, BBF, DF or ropes that have no discernible added scent but truly are also "lakelands"?

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,638
Chicago, IL
I think he means the stuff that smells like a cross between your old Aunt Millie's perfume and a urinal cake. :lol:
I'm not too fond of the stuff, but I can understand it. The closest thing to it that I have ever actually enjoyed is

C Howard's Violet gum and candies, or perhaps Sen-Sen breath "mints".

330px-Sen-Sen.jpg


 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Or walking through the "fragrances" section in a cheap department store, or the most effeminate aftershave cologne known to man? (not a real man of course - wouldn't touch the stuff myself lol).
But, cortez, your urinal cake analogy takes the biscuit, although it kind of destroys my argument that one of the reasons for their popularity was the aroma of the smoke they produced (see the "Clan" thread), but who knows what turned on the ladies in those bygone Edwardian days? lol. Maybe they were even used to enhance the urinal experience? In my imagination I can just imagine an Edwardian gent saying:
"Scctch Cake, eh what! - pah! I p*** on you Sir! Take that you boundah!!" LOL

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Peterpiper, my point was/is that all SG/GH tobaccos derive from Kendal, which is the place misterlowercase referred to in his masterful post, and they shouldn't all be tarred with the same "lakeland essence" brush. My point may seem pedantic on the surface, and I would be happy for the term "Lakeland Essence Tobacco" to be applied to the smelly perfumed articles, but not "Lakeland" per se because Kendal is de facto a Lakeland town, and those with less knowledge of English geography than yourself might easily be confused and inhibited from trying some other wonderful SG and GH tobaccos simply because they derive from Kendal.
We are basically saying the same thing (I think?)lol

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,282
66
Sarasota Florida
I think we need to differentiate between Lakeland blends and Lakeland essence. All of the blends from GH and SG are Lakeland blends and then they have their moth ball smelling, old lady in her death throes smelling, rancid cheap perfume smelling and urinal cake tasting scented varietals. :rofl:
I hear that most of the stuff from GH does have a slight essence due to the fact that it permeates their machines and is in everything at the factory.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
cigrmaster that is a very good point. I doubt it is relevant for the plugs, and certainly not for the ropes, which are prepared very differently (GH produce many more ropes than SG). But it could apply to the flakes if they use the same cutting machines. If they do, my palate can't detect any "Lakeland Essence" taint in their Dark Flake Unscented (which I love and smoke a lot), their BB No2 Flake or their Balkan Flake, which I also smoke a lot (although in this latter case it may be overpowered by the high proportion of Latakia etc.).
If reborn or peterpiper see this they may know more, and when I go to the Edinburgh Pipe Club next week I will certainly enquire because they recently had a day trip to Kendal, which I couldn't join!!

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,282
66
Sarasota Florida
flakey, I swear, if I try the Unscented Dark Flake and their BB2 and love them and then have to go buy 10 pounds of each, I am going to blame you.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
cigrmaster - don't! The pressure would be too much for me LOL Yes to the GH Dark Unscented, but otherwise I concur with peterpiper; go for the SG flakes; in my order of preference BBF (which IMHO may be the best Va flake anywhere), FVF (if you don't suffer tongue bite too much, and I prefer the FV Plug anyway), Balkan Flake (if you like Latakia, and I do!) and 1792 Flake (if you like the tonquin flavour, an acquired taste, which I do!)
With these caveats you can go out and buy 20 llbs of any of these without me having nightmares lol, although probably only the FV and BBF are likely to age well.
Personally I avoid the rest, although I reserve judgement on the St James' Flake which reborn says he likes!!

 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,282
66
Sarasota Florida
flakey, I have 14 pounds of SG St James flake, 10 pounds of SG FVF and 12 pounds of SG Best Brown already in the cellar, love them all. I am going to try those 2 from GH and will report back.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Ye Gads, Ser!!!
"If you smoke a pipe there can be no doubt, you are a man!" A.A. Milne (Winnie the Pooh etc)
You Master Cigrmastr must be a superman!! LOL
PS I think you will love them both. The Dark Flake vies with BBF for my No 1; it is an amazingly cool smoke, but high in nicotine, so I sip it after dinner with a nice port - heaven!

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
It be true,

Cigrmastr is the superpipeman!
Also, what he said above is a very good point:

I think we need to differentiate between Lakeland blends and Lakeland essence. All of the blends from GH and SG are Lakeland blends and then they have their moth ball smelling, old lady in her death throes smelling, rancid cheap perfume smelling and urinal cake tasting scented varietals.
It ties in to your point as well Mr. FJ Esq. --- that is:
However I must raise a point of order - in the British House of Commons it would be "Mr Speaker, A POINT OF ORDER, SIR?"
My point may seem pedantic on the surface, and I would be happy for the term "Lakeland Essence Tobacco" to be applied to the smelly perfumed articles, but not "Lakeland" per se because Kendal is de facto a Lakeland town, and those with less knowledge of English geography than yourself might easily be confused and inhibited from trying some other wonderful SG and GH tobaccos simply because they derive from Kendal.
It was completely a case of convoluted writing on my part, for surely I am no equal to the Great Bard and often jumble things up which make an incoherent mess like jammies on the jinglebells and whither a sticky wicket thru a molasses syrup of bad imperfect prose, like.
In most case, us yanks when talkin' about the Lakelands, unconsciously know and are specifically, in most cases, referring to those blends of the ineffable essence, and often in the sense of something wickedly scented this way comes. :lol:
I yield to your argument as indeed I am guilty of offering up a flawed strain of confusing jabberwocky.

:worship:

I bow to you sir, in humble servitude.
Ah, the House of Commons, what great fun!

Sometimes I watch 'em battling it out on a cable channel over here called C-Span, it's actually some invigorating stuff methinks --- them dudes gotta keep sharp and often display a keen sense of wit, knowing full well how to present an argument and doing so splashingly --- much unlike our dimwitted idiots over here, who often don't even know how to form complete sentences, much less defend their position with an intellectual exercise, it's a sad state of affairs over here what we've let the politicians come to, our press is so soft it's more like an ad agency rather than serious journalism, often stardazed and dazzled by the endless razzamatazz which is always unfolding --- we have no shortage of weiner waggle exhibitionists, blowjob presidents, lovestruck international galavanting, inept statements, dum-dum rhetoric, high-end hooker hoopla, cash stashed in the freezer, nincompoop nepotism, neverending nannyism and any other kitchen sinks outside of Watergate and Nixon's favorite word being "cocksucker" !

:lol:

8O
In my list of top ten tobaccos is included G&H Kendal Kentucky, indeed one of my favorites, very good stuff even though it burns a bit too fast, nothin' like it that I've found, absolutely love the stuff! I reckon the Lakeland term most applies to the scented stuff, whereas Kendal applies to the straight natural stuff...
...anyways, thanks aplenty everybody for bringing this convo along, I've been enjoying reading it all!

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
misterlowercase, I am incapable of flattery (but perhaps not insusceptible to it!) so you will know that the Limey speaks not with forked tongue when declaring that this masterpiece of historical erudition (enhanced by reborn's SG images, peterpiper's link and everyone else's posts) is IMHO the second most interesting topic I've seen since I joined. The first was also penned by your good self lol! Maybe you should come to the United Kingdom and do some in depth, boots-on-the-ground research LOL!!

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Maybe you should come to the United Kingdom and do some in depth, boots-on-the-ground research LOL!!
No doubt my man, no doubt.
It's long been a dream of mine, and I will make it happen somehow.
The biggest problem I'd have is getting myself torn up all in knots, I think I'd prefer Liverpool to London though, but I reckon at least one day in London would be mandatory...

...but, I would wanna go find myself a Hillman Imp or Mk. 1 Escort Mexico, or maybe even haggle over some fine Bristol 401, not to mention my fondess for the Rover P5 --- alas, y'all got wrong side syndrome, RHD is a thing of the devil! The shifting hand should always be the right hand!
I would have to visit Rugby too, one of my favorite bands, Spacemen 3 are from there. Excuse me sir, which way to the Black Sabbath museum?
I'm not afraid of ugly women, they need lovin' too and they usually give it back real good, maybe I'll find a mail-order British bride...I'll start posting on AmericanBoyFetishist.com and lure one in with my cute jokes and dizzy dimples! LOL
Really, I will visit there one day,

I simply must.

 
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