JT Cooke Yelled At Me
- Thread starter iamn8
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I'm happy you both took it to a civil conclusion. Every once in a while you meet someone who has a terrific reputation in their field but for you, isn't a good working match. Bravo for both of you for handling the situation amicably.
A week of communication trials and tribulations. This thread is intriguing. Per the norm so many good points. In a competitive market the consumer can at times feel some power over the producer and the transaction. If indeed you are dissatisfied with any portion of the transaction you can go elsewhere. Which it seems that Nate has. Even more so, you can share your experience and potential influence others away from said producer. Again here we are. Perhaps the producer will think twice with what appears to be a serial problem. From the sounds of it though demand is high enough that he may just move towards others with a higher threshold for broodiness.
The pipe sale is a balance of how much You want the pipe vs how much the Producer wants your money. If customer service is a vital part of your transaction then it seems you have made the right choice.
brass said “If I go to a decent restaurant, with a chef of any renown, I wouldn't tell him what or much seasoning to use. The most I would do is tell him what kind of dishes I like or perhaps mention any strong dislikes, e.g. anchovies. The chef is the artist and I want to taste his creations, not mine.” A strong point well received. I would just add that without the customer, the Chef’s art has very little purpose. Services require someone to be served and therefore, again, we have some say.
A special nod to briarblues for pointing out that this commission could have left you with a fine pipe with a bad story. That is not getting the proverbial bang for your buck. Piping is so near and dear to our hearts. It doesn’t need to be infringed upon with a troubling story.
The pipe sale is a balance of how much You want the pipe vs how much the Producer wants your money. If customer service is a vital part of your transaction then it seems you have made the right choice.
brass said “If I go to a decent restaurant, with a chef of any renown, I wouldn't tell him what or much seasoning to use. The most I would do is tell him what kind of dishes I like or perhaps mention any strong dislikes, e.g. anchovies. The chef is the artist and I want to taste his creations, not mine.” A strong point well received. I would just add that without the customer, the Chef’s art has very little purpose. Services require someone to be served and therefore, again, we have some say.
A special nod to briarblues for pointing out that this commission could have left you with a fine pipe with a bad story. That is not getting the proverbial bang for your buck. Piping is so near and dear to our hearts. It doesn’t need to be infringed upon with a troubling story.
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This thread has been some great reading. I am very impressed that he gave a refund and walked away. That tells me a lot about him right there. No reason to carve a pipe that has a likely chance of having the buyer be at all unhappy. Glad you moved on as well and are working with a carver that will make you something you will treasure.
Well said pipebaum!!! And Pete also!! I'm happy with how things happened. It's been a real honest to goodness learning experience. Not every artist is for every client. I LOVE his pioes though!
Pitchfork: it's a terrific smoking lil pipe! It's a bit smaller than I prefer, but it was too good a deal to turn down. Beautiful little pipe.
Thanks everyone for all the feedback n advice!! This has been very helpful and the reason I love it here! Can't imagine how those new to this pastime ever survived without these forums.
Pitchfork: it's a terrific smoking lil pipe! It's a bit smaller than I prefer, but it was too good a deal to turn down. Beautiful little pipe.
Thanks everyone for all the feedback n advice!! This has been very helpful and the reason I love it here! Can't imagine how those new to this pastime ever survived without these forums.
Well, while you guys were blabbing and wasting time on this thread I grabbed both a Cooke lumberman and a Parks billiard.
:nana:
:nana:
Well said Mike.
For me it's even a bit stronger. When I started in the hobby someone said something I really didn't understand: that he personally wasn't interested in having a pipe in his collection from a carver that he didn't like. At first I really didn't understand that; I had always thought the artist and his art are two distinct things. Why would my opinion of a carver influence my view of one of his pipes? But my perspective gradually changed. This is a small, tight-knit hobby where there are abundant opportunities to meet most of the major figures in the pipe community. The pleasure that my pipes, tampers, bags, and tobaccos give me is greatly enhanced by having met, gotten to know, and like people such as Will Purdy, Jack Howell, Adam Davidson, Wolfgang Becker, Gunnar Weber Prada, Neil Flancbaum, Joe Lankford, Russ Ouellette, and many, many others. As for the very, very few whom I don't especially like: life's too short for me to want to own one of their pipes, no matter how perfectly drilled or aesthetically pleasing.
For the sake of clarity let me add that I completely recognize that this is a personal preference, and that on this point reasonable people can disagree. I also recognize that any two people may have different experiences with and/or different opinions of any given artisan.
We all ultimately vote with our dollars; that's part of the logic behind how I vote with some of mine.
I've fired clients. It was usually along the lines of, "If you're interested in the least expensive (fill in the blank), then I recommend that you go elsewhere. Or "I think there are other designers more compatible with your sensitivities".
The most memorable firing by a true artist, Japanese woodworker, furniture maker George Nakashima, of new Hope, Pa. I heard him refused a rather pushy woman's commission, telling her that she "didn't understand the spirit of the wood" that she was insisting be used for a table.
BTW, he hand crafted his entire home, never using a nail. It was all pegs and butterfly joints.
The most memorable firing by a true artist, Japanese woodworker, furniture maker George Nakashima, of new Hope, Pa. I heard him refused a rather pushy woman's commission, telling her that she "didn't understand the spirit of the wood" that she was insisting be used for a table.
BTW, he hand crafted his entire home, never using a nail. It was all pegs and butterfly joints.
I've fired clients. It was usually along the lines of, "If you're interested in the least expensive (fill in the blank), then I recommend that you go elsewhere. Or "I think there are other designers more compatible with your sensitivities".
The most memorable firing I witnessed was by a true artist, George Nakashima, acclaimed Japanese-American woodworker/furniture maker and a father of the American Craft Movement. I heard him refuse a commission from a rather pushy, yuppie woman, telling her that she "didn't understand the spirit of the wood" that she was insisting be used for a table, which George apparently thought ontologically unsuitable. Or else, he just didn't like her and this was his way of making sure he didn't have to interact with her again. It wasn't like he needed her business. If you wanted George to make you a chair, you put three large down and waited 3 years.
BTW, he hand crafted his entire home, never using a nail. It was all pegs and butterfly joints. There was a small stream with a foot bridge, that separated his studio from the family living area.
It was one of my lasting regrets that my wife and I didn't commission a work from him.
The most memorable firing I witnessed was by a true artist, George Nakashima, acclaimed Japanese-American woodworker/furniture maker and a father of the American Craft Movement. I heard him refuse a commission from a rather pushy, yuppie woman, telling her that she "didn't understand the spirit of the wood" that she was insisting be used for a table, which George apparently thought ontologically unsuitable. Or else, he just didn't like her and this was his way of making sure he didn't have to interact with her again. It wasn't like he needed her business. If you wanted George to make you a chair, you put three large down and waited 3 years.
BTW, he hand crafted his entire home, never using a nail. It was all pegs and butterfly joints. There was a small stream with a foot bridge, that separated his studio from the family living area.
It was one of my lasting regrets that my wife and I didn't commission a work from him.
Just for the record, I WAS NOT being difficult. He wanted to do something very specific. I wanted something by Cooke, not by me. I was requesting his creativity while he was requesting specificity. I was being the exact opposite of demanding. I told him I believed in allowing "the artist to be the artist" and he wanted to do a 1/4 bent Apple sz 6 in black.
Just to be clear, iamn8, I wasn't suggesting you were difficult, if you are indeed reacting to my post above your. Glad it worked out.
Nah brass I just wanted it clear. I wasn't offended. Thanks!
While it was just a pipe.... It could've one day ended up in the hands of a physician who was relaxing with a pipe... So relaxed and inspired by the pipe was he that he had a moment of inspiration which then led to the end of cancer.
lol
While it was just a pipe.... It could've one day ended up in the hands of a physician who was relaxing with a pipe... So relaxed and inspired by the pipe was he that he had a moment of inspiration which then led to the end of cancer.
lol- Status