Got pulled over tonight.

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tinsel

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 23, 2015
531
7
Completely unnecessary and confrontational. Why??
I don't feel that way. I'm never confrontational or impolite. I say "sir" and "officer". I keep my hands visible. I don't berate those who serve the community. I comply with all lawful orders given to me.
It's my right to not answer questions and it's my right to refuse searches and I choose to exercise those rights. When stopped, I just want to be on my way as quickly as possible. Being upfront (but polite) in saying that I don't answer questions and asking if I am free to go is nothing more than a polite, legally correct way of saying that I am not willfully engaging in this "contact" and want to leave as soon as the traffic stop is concluded.
It's been my experience that as long as you are calm and polite in asserting your rights, the officer will return the favor. He will either give you a citation (or warning) and say "you're free to go". I always part ways with officer contact by saying "Have a nice day, officer, and be safe".
I've never understood why people think that asserting your rights is "confrontational". Some people say "Yeah that's a good way to make sure you get a ticket". Well, if I broke the law, I'll take the ticket happily. Actions have consequences. Again, my experience in all the times I've been pulled over is that as long as you are polite and non-aggressive, officers don't get upset when you exercise your rights.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,755
16,381
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Polite and non-aggressive is good. But, what if the officer insists on doing what you consider to be wrong or against your rights? Asserting one's rights at the wrong time and place can be very dangerous. This is true as one's "rights" are being redefined daily by the courts. So polite, non-aggressive and compliant is probably best.
The following is just some general advice to the members from an old, wore out copper with respect to citizen/officer contacts:
You can refuse, verbally, any search request. After voicing your objections it is then best to stand aside and watch the search being conducted. The legality will be worked out in court. Unless you constantly read court decisions you really only understand your rights as someone has explained them to you at some time in the past. Do not get into this type of discussion on the side of the road. Make your objections known, do not impede the officers and contact your attorney at the first possible moment should things go badly for you with regards to the search.
Lawful order? Depends on the circumstances at the time.
If you are driving a vehicle which matches a description the officer has of a vehicle used in a homicide, you'd best consider any order delivered at the point of a gun as lawful at that moment. Explanations will come later, just do as the officer tells you. No questions? No hesitation? You have absolutely no idea what information the officer has nor any idea why you have been stopped and are being ordered around. You think you were speeding and he/she suspects you of being a homicidal maniac with a decapitated body in the trunk. He/she may be just out of training and hyper as hell, scared shitless and barely in control, hoping that good ol' sarge will arrive in seconds. This is not the time to assert your "rights."
I often had to explain "rights" to people who understood them only as a teacher/professor, TV crime show, TV attorney, or "fully informed" private citizen interpreted them. Believe it or not, one's rights and civil liberties are in a constant state of flux. When I was a copper I was constantly being reminded of that fact through bulletins and in-service training.
A nationally known criminal defense attorney advised my brother's law class at Stanford to never argue criminal law with a police officer. The cop deals with it all the time and an attorney uses clerks to keep up and then only as the law applies to a case being handled at the time.
Now, all that said, there are cops and indeed departments that do not keep up. But, the court is the place to argue not the side of the road or at your front door. Things can generally only go south in those situations. Bite your tongue, watch closely, make notes and engage an attorney. The worst case scenario is you confronting a poorly trained cop with "John Wayne Syndrome". You can't win that confrontation, you should win in the courts if your position is correct and the officer didn't shoot you while being in fear for his safety.
Is a hand gun readily accessible in a locked glove box? Some jurisdictions yes, others no. Open bottle laws vary widely as to what constitutes a violation. Personal use marijuana? An ounce? Two cigarettes? When must you be read your "Miranda Rights?" When are you detained? Under suspicion? At what point are you under arrest? Can you be handcuffed if you are not under arrest and only being detained? Was the stop sign you ran legal? Who authorized it's placement? What's the definition of a public way or street? Lawful search? Unreasonable search?
A few years ago I knew the answer to all of those questions in my jurisdiction. Now? Not so much, as the rules change daily and I'm retired. On a rural road in . . . Indiana for example, I would never question an officer's instructions, even with my background and a badge in my pocket. Nothing good can come of such. When the situation is calm I might request the officer to summon his supervisor/commander or, if I feel aggrieved, I would see the officer in court.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,833
27,502
Carmel Valley, CA
It's been my experience that as long as you are calm and polite in asserting your rights, the officer will return the favor. He will either give you a citation (or warning) and say "you're free to go". I always part ways with officer contact by saying "Have a nice day, officer, and be safe".
That's sweet. However, I'd go by Warren's admonitions, as your to date experience may not hold true the next time.
If you block a reasonable request with assertions of your "rights", whether grounded or not, it's not terribly smart. Smug, but not smart.

 

crashthegrey

Lifer
Dec 18, 2015
3,833
3,681
41
Cobleskill, NY
www.greywoodie.com
Thanks for all the stories. I've often wondered how long it will be before my lighter in the dark is mistaken for lighting something other than my wonderful tobacco. It's good to know that at least some officers are fully aware that yes, there are still people under the age of 70 who smoke a pipe. Warren, I actually really appreciate the time you put into your responses. It may not be the popular opinion, but it is good to hear.

 

seagullplayer

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 30, 2014
500
129
Indiana
I won't go into much detail but I was once pulled over out of state in a work van.

It was very late at night we where headed back to the hotel from work.
We had a head light out, so we found out.
Long and short of it, it was the second closest I have come to being shot.

He ended up sending us on our way without any paperwork. I think the office was more shaken than I was

and he was on the good end of the gun.
Nothing good happens after midnight, and even less after 2am...

 
Just after college, I made a deal with another student who was from Texas to buy his VW van. I got a steal of a deal, and I was wanting something to drive from art fair to art fair to sell my paintings that I was doing at the time. But, the catch was that I had to fly to Texas to get the thing. The guy I bought it from had put these silly skull and dancing bear stickers all over it. Half way through Texas, I was pulled over, and made to lay on the ground as they disassembled the van, because apparently in Texas at the time those stupid stickers were "probable cause" for searches. They found nothing, because I am a geek who doesn't do anything like drugs or drinking. But, they politely tipped their hats and left me with seats, panels, spare tires, etc... all laying over the side of the road, and all I had was one of those all-in-one tools that people that don't know you very well give you for Christmas. And, I had to assemble that thing all by myself, ha ha. Since then, I will drive around the state of Texas to get to where I need if I cannot just fly there.
That said, I have never had anyone look twice at me for smoking my pipe in my car, but I tend to keep it clenched. And, I don't think that people who use pipes for drugs do that. So...

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,194
5,107
Seems to me that when in the power of a superior force, uniformed, armed with pistol and taser, and having a close relationship with a jail, respectful obedience as a disguise for anger and fear is always the best course. Short of directives to get into the squad's trunk or get naked and run south, a salute to the flag is, I think, the best course.
I got stopped 18 months ago for speeding, which I was, at 9:30 at night, and it was quite dark. The cop approaches my window and was belligerent, which he has a right to be. I look out at him and couldn't see him, so I stopped looking and faced forward, and we talk about the speeding as he processed the situation. After about a minute he gets extra angry and wants to know why I'm not looking at him. I say why and look at him as he holds the flashlight by his head so I can.
Afterward I'm thinking that his manner was entirely justified as he is by himself and worried about getting shot, at any point, when he approaches my window or during the exchange of pleasantries that will result in me getting a ticket, which will occasion trouble and expense. That he didn't have my eyes was to him no small thing. He could get shot.
There's a level of desperation and substance use everywhere, short of the monasteries, that has made a cop's job downright dangerous.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,755
16,381
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
If I was that man's sergeant, and you'd have beefed him, and I found your complaint reasonable, I'd sit him down for a bit of retraining. I'd also closely observe him over time to see if he was using belligerence as a cover for a lack of confidence in his abilities. A good officer should be able to control an, as yet, benign situation. I didn't care if I could see a face on a vehicle stop, I wanted to see both hands, all the time. Your face can't harm me, your hands can. I'm not going to look at your face until I can see the hands and the interior of the vehicle.
A really tough stop, for me, was the well endowed female in the low cut top. I knew where I should be looking and it conflicted with where I wanted to look.

 

atfan

Lurker
Jan 30, 2010
5
0
WNC
Officer: May I see your driver's license,registration and proof of insurance ,please?
Me:Well, officer, I don't have any of those ,but I do have my "cheese lovers of America" membership card...
Officer:this card is expired,pull over into the church parking lot and lock it up.The cell was like a gas station bathroom with a dog bed on the floor.

 

kuroneko

Lurker
Dec 19, 2016
31
0
This is going to be my first post but I couldn't help sharing. I'm an exchange student in Japan(where pipe smoking is almost non-existent and especially unusual for someone under the age of 25) and I've gotten the "are you smoking pot in that?" question quite a number of times with a nervous laughter and worried looks. But once they know you're smoking tobacco, they are usually intrigued and think it's very cool and charismatic.

 
Aug 14, 2012
2,872
123
It's a damned shame that the cops are so nosy. I used to love smoking a lightweight bent billiard when driving. Now I don't because I do not want those !@#$%^&* to stop me.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,755
16,381
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Not sure I fully understand your question. The US Marshall Service is in fact the law enforcement arm of the Federal Government taking their orders from Federal judges. They were/are basically the enforcement arm of the judiciary. These days they also operate in task forces made up of local, state and federal personal. I think their primary responsibility is still "man hunting", looking after the judges and magistrates (court security and protection), witness protection, etc.
foggy: Cops are paid and trained to be nosy. How nosy depends on what their employers desire. Generally speaking, less nosy in smaller jurisdictions with low crime activity and more intrusive where the crime rate is high. And then there are the localities where the budget is based heavily on collected fines. One does not want to be driving with "out of state" plates or insurance stickers from other counties displayed on the windshield.

 
Jul 28, 2016
7,661
37,059
Finland-Scandinavia-EU
Thank You dear Mister Warren, I got completly clear answer, this was just what I wanted to know,pretty interesting,

out there are similar enforcement services around the world, but to my knowledge,none of them foreign equivalents are comparable with the U.S Marshals(equipement-and training wise)

 
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