English vs. American Pipe Smoking History

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snagstangl

Lifer
Jul 1, 2013
1,608
770
Iowa, United States
I found myself asking stupid question: What were the drugstore pipes from England? Then I thought about it more. All those estate pipes that I buy that say made in England/London. Those are them! Their cheap pipes were just way better quality than we had, but produced in similar quantity. Or so I assume. Are their sites, or links here on this forum that go into this?
I have also heard of the "one pound pipe" being a cheap pipe being able to be bought for about one british pound. Perhaps these are the drugstore equivilent.
I would appreciate any insite into this, opinions and things you have heard or understand are also appreciated.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
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Interesting, Dr. Grabows, Medico's, etc. were the drugstore pipes in the US, but I don't have a clue as to what the UK equivalents were either.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,739
16,336
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
My first pipe, a Ropp, was purchased in a Woolworth's store. French made, leather covered, cherry bowl, and meerschaum lined, I cut quite the figure at the University, all for less than $10.00, if I remember correctly. that pipe and a package of Middleton's "Cherry Blend" was my introduction to the pipe. It's a wonder I kept it up. The pipe was . . . not bad, but was soon replaced with a Kaywoodie or two and the tobacco of choice became Sail "Regular".

 

4dotsasieni

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 6, 2013
756
6
Dr Plumb pipes come to mind, but they're actually pretty good pipes - marketed by GBD, still available in the U.K. and, occasionally, North America, today.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
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This is a really great question, I too hope some of our UK brothers weigh in on the topic.
I've being doing quite a bit of research in this area and I'll offer my 2d.

d = pence (one pence = one penny)
There is a strong Anglophile streak in the American collecting community because the UK stuff was usually top notch, even the "cheap" stuff, not to mention their glorious baccy which was unlike anything on this side of the puddle.
First, the nature of tobacco selling.

What we call drugstore or OTC, fell under a diverse umbrella in the UK.

Tobacco was sold through newsagents, confectioners, hairdressers and of course, tobacconists proper.
I think most of the "cheap" pipes were actually 2nds from the famous factories, with some exceptions of course, but for the most part, the famous factories made a wide range.
I'm looking at a 1935 catalog and it'll give an idea.

The way they list prices looks odd to our eyes, for example, 12/6 would be 12 shillings 6 pence (I think?), often said as twelve and six at the counter.
So, in 1935, a Dunhill cost 25/-

a high-end Ben Wade could cost 42/-

a Parker cost 7/6
Civic made many "pound pipes" under a variety of names, like Steel's or Kool-Bob

A Civic proper cost around 5/6

Imperial pipes could be had for around 3/6
A top of the line Comoy's went for 12/6, but they made all sorts of 2nds too, like Astor for 3/6, Everyman for 5/-, Royal Falcon for 2/6 and many more.
Delacour made a wide range, all the way from 10/6 to a mere 6d for a Nipper.
BBB made a "pound pipe' called Good Luck, as well as a Major Dash for 1/6.
Hardcastle made "pound pipes" too, even their famous Jack 'O London was fairly cheap at 3/6.
Masta made many "cheap" pipes.
Duncan too I think might fall in that category?
GBD had a fairly huge range of "pound pipes", here's a few - Riseagle, Greaves Patent, Finsbury, Oliver Twist.

Dr. Plumb was 2/6, Irwin's was 3/6, City De Luxe was 5/6, and the GBD's proper were from 7/6 to 12/6.
The Portland Pipe Co. Made Wholly In England had a full range from 7/6 on down to 1/-
Specialist tobacconist shops often had their own branded line of pipes, many of which were actually made by Barling, Sasieni, Comoy et al and can be good bargains for sharp-eyed collectors.
Well, I've spent my 2d!

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,802
45,446
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Great posts! To add to misterlowercase's escellent post, both Comoy's and Sasieni had extensive lines of 2nds and even 3rds. To get some idea, check out the listing of Sasieni seconds on pipephil.
Though Barling didn't officially make seconds during the family era, there appears to be some evidence that they did, based on entries in "Who Made That Pipe?".

 

snagstangl

Lifer
Jul 1, 2013
1,608
770
Iowa, United States
The Pipedia page on GDB's talks about 5 1/2 shilling line of City De Luxe as well, along with Camelia which was a 2 1/2 shilling line, and Riseagle which was a very popular 1 shilling pipe until 1939. I have tobacco trade year book from 1968 I will have to check it out as well. The previous owner has store records scrawled in the back.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
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Perhaps England or the UK didn't have a need for drugstore pipes because tobacco shops were so prevalent?
My wife's Grandfather lived in our town, of about 40,000 people I'm not aware that the city ever had a tobacconist. He bought all of his pipes and tobacco at Peoples Drugstores or the local grocery store. Those stores didn't carry British made pipes, but only Grabows, Yellow-Boles, etc. I found this picture and imagine it is pretty representative of what was available to him in the 1960's.
My wife said her Grandfather also bought tobacco at the local newstand but she doesn't think the sold any kind of premium imported pipes. She said he rarely spend more than a few dollars for a pipe.
Is this only a US occurence?
gm01.jpg


 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
That's a great pic Al!

Thanks for that, sorta looks like an Imperial pipe display underneath the Yello Boles on the right, wonder if that was the British Imperial brand, or a different one?
Sablebrush, you're right about Sasieni, they had quite a few!

Not only that, but they had many different stinger designs too, I always wondered what was up with that?

I once had a Royal Stuart that had one that looked like this, looks more like a medieval torture device!

UpND3CK.jpg


...and then different designs, why?

At least Kaywoodie figured it out and stuck with their Drinkless system!

:P

ow2B1Yi.jpg


E1dURIM.jpg


EJsQIop.jpg


xhrphw5.jpg


euJN761.jpg


RYF4j39.jpg


1OwxXmj.jpg

...it's kind of funny when you look in this old '41 Geo. Yale catalog, the way they list the Sasieni stuff,

Windsor, also known as Mayfair

Old England, also known as Berkeley Club, also known as Henley Club

:lol:

2nds 3rds 4ths & 5ths ?

http://pipepages.com/pics/gy8.jpg
Also interesting to look thru the RTDA Retailers' Almanac progressively,

1949, 1955 and 1969

Premium Kaywoodies were more expensive than Dunhills,

and in the '69 catalog Charatan shows up with the big money pipes,

even Stanwell in '69 had a pipe going for $175!
http://pipepages.com/49rtda13.htm
http://pipepages.com/55rtda4
http://pipepages.com/69rtda106.htm
Neat stuff.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Aye laddies,

just coming back to this as it's all very interesting, and I forgot a couple of things, and I'd also like to denote a few cultural traits I've come across in my manic scramblings and copious notetakings.
I forgot all about the REJECT pipes, you've probably seen them before. I dunno why they chose such a horrible phrase to stamp a pipe with, but I reckon they were honest, and I think the REJECT pipes wooda been cheap.
You'll also see UK pipes stamped Foreign Made, which may have been cheapies?

Imported goods not from the Commonwealth in those days were stamped "Foreign" or "Foreign Made" and were subject to a higher import tax than those in the "Commonwealth Preference Band."
I also forgot about the immense popularity of Falcon Pipes, which were quite affordable workaday instruments for the daily pleasures of pipe smoking, I reckon they got big in the 50's or 60's?
A UK pipeman with a Falcon fill'd with Condor is the classic image of an "Old Codger".
And perhaps the Peterson System pipes were more affordable?

The knock-off Peterson style pipes certainly were.
A working-man didn't really visit British High Street posh tobacconists, in general, they'd usually go to the newsagent, Co-op, grocer or F.W.Woolworth aka "Woolies".
The Co-op's had mobile shops that served the countryside wayback when before everyone could afford a car.
Post-war austerity in the UK was pretty severe, I recently got a hardbound volume of Punch (hoping for adverts, but they're not included in the hardbound editions) and it was from 1947, many stories about people wearing thick coats indoors due to lack of coal, and many other necessities were hard to come by, thrift was not only a way of life but nearer a religion for many folks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postwar_Britain#Austerity.2C_1945.E2.80.931950
Most old men everywhere smoked bar, plug, twist or pigtail tobaccos which they cut up with a knife, milder baccy was generally more aimed at the "Officer Classes" .
Most pipemen owned just the one pipe and possibly one “good one” for Market Days, Sundays, Weddings, Christenings and Funerals.
In many cases, pipecleaners weren't necessarily deemed particularly needed,

"Older Brits, by and large, run their pipes with a thick coat of cake and tend to regard blowing down the stem hard, as adequate cleaning. Condor and St. Bruno Flake, the two biggest seller do leave a ghost. We also tend to knock our pipes out on the nearest hard surface – ashtrays, boot heels, fence posts, telegraph poles and even the pavement.
The Old Boys as I've said before when their pipes started gurgling excessively or blocked completely, would simply take their pipes apart, turn down wind, blow sharply through the stem to dislodge any foreign objects and goo, give the pipe a flick with a particular snap of the wrist, reassemble the thing and carry on a conversation on auto pilot.
Occasionally if a large bird's feather was found it would be used as a pipe cleaner – but this was by no mean a daily occurrence. I suspect from some of the pipes that I've had from E bay, this treatment is still pretty common and is probably why in books of the period any pipe man was always described as “smoking a foul smelling old pipe.”

Older working men then smoked what were called “Cutty Pipes” - short Stonehaven Briars available from any newsagents. These pipes were greatly favoured because of their cheapness and the fact that being short they were not so readily broken when carelessly thrust into a pocket. One of these would only require an outlay of 7/6d ( £0.37.5 )
I love UK dialect and slang, so here's a bit 'o that.
skint = slang for penniless
borassic lint = skint, in Cockney

"I cant go out tonight I'm borassic"
A ciggy could be known as a "gasper", especially if it was one of the stronger variety, like Capstan Full.
Something kinda funny to Yank eyes here would be this, we all know what shag tobacco is (altho at some point 'shag' also became slang for sex), and most know that "fag" was Britslang for a ciggy, but what about this curious combo to more modern eyes?

MXuxYD0.jpg

Skint teenagers would go on ashtray raids to grab “dog ends” (butts) and combine all the salvaged baccy into a new handrolled ciggy.
One thing to keep in mind too, is just how much things have changed in the USA, Balkan Sobranie was technically a "drugstore brand" because it could be had at just about every pharmacy or newsstand, William Faulkner in Oxford Mississippi got his Sobranie (and St. Bruno!) from a Rexall drugstore!
Greg Pease has written well on the topic of Sobranie, and especially how it's unlikely that there'll ever be such a legendary blend to replace it, in the sense of universal high-praise, because it was widely popular, widely known, and widely available, most everybody knew about it and it was available at arms reach - unlike Fred Hanna's beloved Marcovitch, which may have been an even better blend, that would have been totally forgotten to the mists of time if he hadn't had given it its proper due. But I doubt Marco was ever available OTC, thus the dust of obscurity, unlike Sobranie whom looms so large.

.

.

.

All of the above is secondary info to me, and I'm passing it along because I find this kinda stuff of deep interest, so take it all with a grain of salt, I certainly ain't no scholar!
Hoping for a few of our UK brothers to tell us better details!

 

pipeherman

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 13, 2013
228
2
I was about to shout out some jingoistic drible Britainnia rulling the waves et cetera, then I remembered that I fell to ordering a large amount of tobacco from 4noggins, simply because we don't have the same range of tobacco products over here. :crying:
I'm a relatively young pipesmoker achtzehn, living in Surrey which make up the home counties South East of the Isles. I never saw the 50s, 60s or 70s the height of smoking in the workplace et cetera. Though I do understand some of the rich tradition of pipe making mainly Dunhill and Peterson. Peterson cementing their place due to them sponsoring the British Army with the Spigots and Military mounts in the height of the Empire, when Britain had over one third of the Globe. Huzzah! Though that is now a past which we should be careful in how we look at it, after all the BBC wouldn't like the idea of showing Colonial activity in a positive light.
In terms of pipe prices at the moment I believe a standard Peterson System is around $80 dollars in the uk so thats about £50.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,802
45,446
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
misterlowercase once again provides much interesting material.

Kaywoodies were more expensive than Dunhills back in the day, were more popular and very highly regarded. Then S. M Frank turned them into a cheap drugstore pipe and Kaywoodie's reputation has never recovered. You can buy a 1930's Kaywoodie for a fraction of a Dunhill from the same period. Those old pipes are a great bargain. Kaywoodie dominated the pipe market for decades. Their popularity was such that they set up shop in England to manufacture pipes for the European market.

Comoy also produced a wide range of marques at every price point.

I have no idea what was behind Sasieni's many varied stingers.

Falcon bowls were turned by Barling. But don't get too excited. They used different wood.

We live in a time of political correctness. You won't find faggots and peas on a British menu any more.

Many years ago I bought several of Alfred Hitchcock's Dunhills. That man never trimmed his cake. His pipes were almost completely filled. What a slob. Made some pretty good pictures, though.

 

jguss

Lifer
Jul 7, 2013
2,482
6,470
Portland Pipe was a wholly-owned subsidiary of Barling, and for decades the primary outlet for Barling bowls that for whatever reason didn't meet their "first quality" requirements

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,464
11,388
Maryland
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I don't think we have come up with the answer yet, but this thread sure is interesting!
For the time period of the 1960's, when US pipe makers quality had taken a down-turn and pipes like Yellow-Bole were $2 - was there a dominating British equivalent?

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Sablebrush,

thanks for that info, and we need to hear more about Hitchcock's Dunhills!!!!

An incredible tale to tell there!
Jon Guss,

I am a great admirer of your work and thank you mightily for your massive efforts which enrich the whole community, it's an honor to have you be part of this thread and thank you for participating.
Did Barling own Portland from the start as a subsidiary, or was Portland bought out at some point by Barling?

Does that mean that the famous Barling briar may exist in the form of earlier Portland pipes?

I've been after one of the old ones, simply because of that "wholly made in England" stamp, usually seen as a John Peel. And the later ones using the John peel moniker are sometimes stamped as BB&S I've noticed.
I've found a couple of different addies for Portland, the earliest being 30 Great Portland Street W.1.,

and then 7 & 8 Jeffreys Place, London, as seen in this advert from 1951:

fiCInMN.jpg


...and here's a John Peel marked Finlay's, underscoring the Barling connection,

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-finlays-john-peel-london-made-briar

although I find it strange that they'd maintain 2 factories instead of consolidating 'em all under one roof?
scarborian,

many thanks for your input, it's good to hear a firsthand account.
pipeherman,

Besides the £50 Peterson, I've also noticed some inexpensive Parker pipes,

I dunno of the quality, but I've been tempted to get me one just 'cause they're so affordable...
I've always wanted a chubby shape 95 LB-looking billiard,

here for only £22.99,

http://www.mysmokingshop.co.uk/index2.php?pageNum_rsProdscat=3&mod=mancats&sec=1534&man=376&totalRows_rsProdscat=22
...and more of the "special selections" Parkers,

here even as low as £20.00!

http://www.thepipeshop.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Parker_of_London__Dunhill_Factory_made__slight_seconds_50.html

:

 

snagstangl

Lifer
Jul 1, 2013
1,608
770
Iowa, United States
So this phrase is about pipes? "Postcolonial theory thrusts an epistemological redefinition of enlightenment universalism"
Oh and I thought the BB&S company was a post transition company.

 
May 31, 2012
4,295
34
Edit per request,

apologies for my transgression

and off-topic rambling.
That was a dumb hijack tangent on my part.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
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In the Portland Londoner ad, is that price 17 shilling & 6 pence? (17/6?)

What would that have equated to in US dollars in that era?

 
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