Crumble Cake or Double Pressed?

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shanez

Preferred Member
Jul 10, 2018
662
90
While looking at John Cotton's double pressed Virginia is was left wondering could all crumble cakes be called "double pressed" or is the pressing to form the cake something else? Or were the tobaccos in other cakes not pressed the first time? Just curious what others thoughts might be.

 

brooklynpiper

Member
May 8, 2018
260
31
I believe cakes are just pressed pre-sliced and processed tobacco. The descriptions I've read of John Cotton's Double seem to say that they first make flakes, rub them out, and then re-press the ready rubbed ribbon into cake. This isn't common.
I haven't tried it but I worry this is hokum. I think right now we see an odd willingness in the pipe tobacco market to pay a premium for cake cuts - Seattle Pipe Club coming to mind at a $14/15 tin. The competition is a lot stronger and market is cheaper for ribbon and flake tobaccos, and sure Capstan is a $14 tin, but there doesn't seem a willingness to pay more for a flake online than that, especially when plenty of alternatives come in dollars cheaper than Capstan. You wouldn't see a new flake or ribbon cut enter the online market at $16 a tin. I believe John Cotton's is trying to differentiate and not compete with other, cheaper established tobaccos while cashing in on willingness to pay extra for cake cuts.

 

mityahicks

Member
Nov 18, 2018
192
5
It seems the cost of a tobacco reflects the quantity of distinct leaf varieties in the blend and the time it takes to create. Demand also plays a role.

 

danimalia

Preferred Member
Sep 2, 2015
748
24
The price is unappealing, but some of the early reviews are very appealing, and the track record for Russ is also worth considering. And coming from cigars, my perspective is a bit different on price. That said, it better be good... for the price. You write a check when you charge a premium, and your blend better be able to cash it.
I enjoy crumble cakes, because I think they offer some of the benefits of flakes and plugs, but they're easier to work with.

 

greeneyes

Member
Jun 5, 2018
101
8
While I'm not referring to any particular brand, I think it's important to mention that low-quality tobacco is still low-quality tobacco, even when pressed into a crumble kake or flake. It's the tobacco equivalent of "IPA," the thing that consumers flock to because that old-time format must guarantee a higher standard of quality. Anything can be pressed into a kake.

 

danimalia

Preferred Member
Sep 2, 2015
748
24
While I'm not referring to any particular brand, I think it's important to mention that low-quality tobacco is still low-quality tobacco, even when pressed into a crumble kake or flake. It's the tobacco equivalent of "IPA," the thing that consumers flock to because that old-time format must guarantee a higher standard of quality. Anything can be pressed into a kake.
I agree. If the tobaccos do not taste good, a cake/crumble cake will not make a difference, and may even intensify unpleasant flavors. But I do think it makes a difference in the leaves marrying and intensifying similarly to a flake or plug. And I enjoy working with them.
I would also say these new JC blends are at an abnormally high price point compared to most crumble cakes available. Most cakes aren't any more expensive than flakes, in my experience.

 

trubka2

Member
Feb 27, 2019
294
99
There was an interesting interview with the guy who runs Sutliff (on the Pipes Radio Show, I think? or maybe the Country Squire podcast?) in which they discussed the JC cakes at length. According to him, as I understood it, the point of the double pressing is to simulate the aging process, or at least substitute for it so that you have a freshly tinned product that's ready to smoke. So I guess the idea is that the price premium is what you pay to skip a few years of waiting. Kind of the same thinking behind the hot pressing for MacB HH series, if I'm not mistaken. Something like an industrial scale version of sticking tins in the oven, sous vide, car trunk, garage rafters, etc. Again, that's all if I'm not mistaken and as far as I understand, which is not very far. Kind of sounds like hokum to me, but I'm of course still going to buy at least the Kentucky. Because it's, like, Pressed Twice, which must be better than all that tired old single pressed stuff.

 

greeneyes

Member
Jun 5, 2018
101
8
By the way the price was dropped to $13 a tin I think. And it's worth mentioning that the Twice-Pressed Va won the Chicago Show blind tasting. It's darn good if you're into that kind of mixture.

 

shanez

Preferred Member
Jul 10, 2018
662
90
By the way the price was dropped to $13 a tin I think. And it's worth mentioning that the Twice-Pressed Va won the Chicago Show blind tasting. It's darn good if you're into that kind of mixture.
P&C does have it for $13.99/tin. Still listed higher on at least one other site.
Given the above info and the price drop, I'm intrigued enough order a tin and give it a whirl.

 

dcon

Preferred Member
Mar 16, 2019
598
12
I have had a couple of bowls of the Virginia Double Pressed. My initial take is that it smokes and has a flavor profile of a slightly aged VA. I quite like it. My one surprise is that it does have a nice dose of Vitamin N. I have a high tolerance and it does not bother me in the least. I do think it is worth noting for those looking for it or those that want to stay clear of that aspect.

 

blendtobac

Preferred Member
Oct 16, 2009
1,212
23
Most crumble cakes are just made of cut leaf while the double pressed, as noted by brooklynpiper, starts out as a flake which is tumbled out. You'll notice the difference when you rub out the double pressed as the pieces more resemble rubbed-out flake tobacco.
Russ

 
Jun 9, 2018
151
11
I don't know when I'll next have the cash to do an American order but whenever it is these will be at the top of my list, they both sound right up my alley especially the Double Pressed Virginia and overall it's an intriguing concept.
Chris

 

spartan99

Preferred Member
Mar 10, 2017
514
0
Most crumble cakes are just made of cut leaf while the double pressed, as noted by brooklynpiper, starts out as a flake which is tumbled out. You'll notice the difference when you rub out the double pressed as the pieces more resemble rubbed-out flake tobacco.
Definitely. All of mine came from the Chicago show, and I didn't know it came in cakes until I saw Spartacus's picture. As Russ says, it looks more like a well rubbed-out flake.