Canadian Duty Taxes of Mail Orders

[andrew]

WTF??
http://www.immigroup.com/news/canadians-guide-bringing-cigarettes-and-tobacco-back-across-us-border

SHIPPING TOBACCO TO YOURSELF

Unlike alcohol, which postal services refuse to carry, you can mail tobacco to yourself or order products from online retailers without much hassle. Your personal exemption for tobacco products — 200 cigarettes, 50 cigars, or 200 grams of pipe tobacco — applies to the mail. Anecdotal evidence from pipe tobacco enthusiasts suggests that about four tins of tobacco won't exceed the personal exemption, and that orders of larger amounts from certain shippers in the US will escape the notice of customs officials.
- See more at: http://www.immigroup.com/news/canadians-guide-bringing-cigarettes-and-tobacco-back-across-us-border#sthash.URS6zCyZ.dpuf

 

[drezz01]

Thanks Gents, I don't mind paying up to and slightly over the price of tobacco here for blends I actually want but this was just scary -- like I had committed a crime importing it or something. I have just dealt with the gov't over the course of 6 weeks over back taxes (stemming from a supposed "Graduate Retention" program) and am tired of the bureaucracy so I was willing to eat the $70 and let this one go.
I had looked up the taxes and it was (I believe) 6-something per 25g, or what worked out to be $50 -- totally acceptable, even Davet's price of $82 would have sat -- but 5X the declared value? Yikes.
Frankly I was wondering if they had connected the dots and were charging me taxes on all of the parcels that hadn't been caught.
SK Gov says as of March 21st 2013, tax is 6.25/25g of tobacco. I'm not sure how one calculates duties however and the Canadian Border Services Agencyform is fairly nebulous as to how I would explain that they incorrectly assessed the product.
Frankly, dealing with the gov't gives me the heebies -- but I will go see the post office tomorrow and start the reassessment process - hopefully one of our fine men or women on the border had a long shift and there maths failed them.

 

[drezz01]

Andy,
That 200g limit is anecdotal but typically has been my experience. However tobacco isn't exempt; to me in regards to the situation above from the CBSA:

Please be advised that Canadian residents do not qualify for an exemption when importing tobacco products into Canada by mail or courier. In order to qualify for a personal exemption on tobacco products a Canadian resident must be absent from Canada for 48 hours or longer and the tobacco products must be in their possession at the time of re-entry.

That said, they did not go in to specifics about this case in particular as it is provincial in nature. They gave me a number to contact but they close at 4pm so I have yet to contact them.

 

[stickframer]

Hopefully you can enjoy your baccy without too much delay or hassle. Good luck! I'd be curious to know how it pans out.

 

[drezz01]

I'll certainly let you all know -- frankly I was just happy to find out that I had the option to 'return to sender' without having the men in black come after me or ding my credit for the 300-bucks owing!!
Best case scenario - I end up paying ~80 bucks extra (happy to do it) and have some slightly (hopefully only slightly) more aged tobacco to enjoy.

 

[drezz01]

and in case you are interested - here is the full and comprehensive email. They certainly covered their bases and gave me an adequate response - even if it didn't come with a resolution...

Please be advised that Canadian residents do not qualify for an exemption when importing tobacco products into Canada by mail or courier. In order to qualify for a personal exemption on tobacco products a Canadian resident must be absent from Canada for 48 hours or longer and the tobacco products must be in their possession at the time of re-entry. Further information on the conditions applied to personal exemptions is available in the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) I Declare publication:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5056-eng.html#s2x12

(Please note that although the I Declare publication has been archived, the information is still relevant)
Information on the excise duty and other fees as well as provincial and territorial limits related to the non-commercial importation of tobacco is accessible from the "Publications" section of the CBSA Web site at:
Memorandum D2-3-6

Non-commercial Provincial Tax Collection Programs

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-3-6-eng.html

(Click on the PDF document and scroll down to the "Appendix A" heading on page 5.)
As you may have noticed upon opening the link, each province and territory is responsible for establishing their own taxation rates for tobacco products. Due to this fact we are unable to reply to your e-mail in a more precise manner. When you open Memorandum D2-3-6, you will find Appendix A as having the tobacco taxation rates listed by province. To identify the duties and taxes payable, you would locate the province where you will be entering Canada and calculate the rates for that province.
In addition, the Excise Act 2001 limits the amount of tobacco products that can be imported (or possessed) by an individual for personal use to five units if the product is not packaged and stamped “CANADA DUTY PAID ● DROIT ACQUITTÉ”. One unit of tobacco products consists of either: 200 cigarettes, 50 cigars, 200 grams of manufactured tobacco, or 200 tobacco sticks. The Excise Act 2001 can be found at:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/E-14.1/index.html
For goods imported by mail you can refuse the payment and the parcel, and advise Canada Post to return the parcel to the sender in the country of export. If you want to return goods to the sender before you pay the duties and taxes, check the "Return to Sender" box on Form E14, CBSA Postal Import Form and sign the "Customer's Signature" box. Canada Post will then return the mail item to the sender.
For goods imported by courier, we encourage clients to discuss their shipment and return options directly with the courier company.
Should you require additional assistance with your inquiry, including estimated fee calculations for your tobacco importation, we recommend that you contact the Border Information Service (BIS). You can access the BIS line free of charge throughout Canada by calling 1-800-461-9999. If you are calling from outside Canada, you can access the BIS line by calling either 204-983-3500 or 506-636-5064 (long-distance charges will apply). If you call during regular business hours (8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Monday to Friday, except holidays), you can speak to an officer by pressing “0” at any time after you have made a selection of either English or French.
Thank you for contacting the Canada Border Services Agency.

 

[davet]

The young fella at the border had a heck of a time trying to figure it out and ended up calling another agent over to help.He did suggest that I keep the receipt in the truck for the next time I cross with tobacco to save them the trouble of searching for the proper rates.

 

[kanada]

If you have to go to the post office you could always look at the customs receipt and see what other charges there may be in terms of inspection

 

[bigjoe]

If you do the math following that memo D2-3-6 link they sent you it looks like taxes should have been about $45 provincial taxes on the whole order. I couldn't find a federal document, but news sites reported a federal tax of $26.29 on 200g. on last year's budget. I would get that bill reassessed, it looks about $300 too high!

 

[dochudson]

If you refuse/return the products to the retailer are you expecting a refund?

 

[pruss]

I'll certainly let you all know -- frankly I was just happy to find out that I had the option to 'return to sender' without having the men in black come after me or ding my credit for the 300-bucks owing!!

I'm sorry to hear that you're considering returning the package to sender.
If I'm reading your contributions to this thread correctly, it appears that you were erroneously charged duty and taxes by a BSO who miscalculated the amounts owing on your package. This isn't your fault, and you shouldn't be expected to pay that incorrect amount; but it's also not the fault of the e-tailer you purchased from.
Returning the packaged to sender forces the e-tailer you purchased from to incur extra shipping costs, and a restocking fee, at a minimum. If they do offer you a refund on your purchase, then they are out the shipping cost both ways, and a restocking fee. In either instance you're putting cost pressures on the e-tailer for reasons which are completely out of their control.
IMHO the appropriate way to deal with this issue was to have CBSA re-evaluate the duties and taxes and pay the correct amount. This means you get the tobacco you ordered, after paying the duty and taxes required, and your e-tailer gets paid for fulfilling your order as processed.
Punishing the e-tailer because of an error in duty and tax calculation makes it more expensive for them to do business with Canadians. There is already one major online vendor of pipes, tobacco and cigars who won't ship to Canada because of the cost in doing so... everytime someone refuses an order because of incurred duty and taxes we get one step closer to losing more e-tailers.
Let's decide now not to make shipping to Canada a fruitless venture for those few companies who will still do business with us.
-- Pat

 

[davet]

His original post said he was going to return the package and take the $70 hit, the retailer would receive the package and keep the payment. I believe he is going to return it to Customs for revaluation, that's what I would do.

 

[purplemotoman]

I agree Pat. You can argue the tax with the Border but "return to sender" will cost Canadians another vendor.

 

[drezz01]

I'm sorry to hear that you're considering returning the package to sender.

...

Let's decide now not to make shipping to Canada a fruitless venture for those few companies who will still do business with us.

That's certainly not what I want -- I had assumed when I refused the package that I would be paying for the return shipping - which I would gladly do, nor did I expect a refund. I had also emailed the retailer to let them know to expect it back - then after reading the comments here and deciding to have the package reassessed - I emailed them again with the update.
I by no means blame the retailer for any of this BTW -- I realize that I accept the responcibility for duties and taxes.
Thank you for letting me know that if I had decided to send the package back that it may be detrimental to the vendor -- I appreciate all of the purchases I have made through them and would hate to foot them with the bill.
Hopefully I can make it to the post office after work and sort all of this out.

 

[pruss]

Drezz01
It sounds like you're asking the right questions and making good calls. Good on you!
-- Pat

 

[drezz01]

So I made it to the post office today. The majority of the fees were just lumped under 'Duties': $319 dollars worth. The box had yellow customs tape on it and I thought I saw a united-states stamp on the customs bill which I thought odd. Frankly I don't even know what 'duties' are or how they could amount to $319 dollars on a package the size of a half-carton of eggs and just as light.
I pretty much had to walk the chap who worked at Canada Post through his job. He didn't know how to go about having the parcel re-assessed so it was a good thing I did some research ahead of time as he was adamant the only way to have it reassessed was for me to pay the fee and then submit to the CBSA for a refund. He also couldn't find the form that they were supposed to have on hand (as the CBSA website informed me) so I had to google the process, find the form number, and leave my phone number with him.
Who knows how this saga is going to end up turning out!
... I just want my wessex dark flake.....

 

[jkrug]

A bit of a hassle for sure but I am hoping in the end that it will all get sorted out in a favourable way for you. Good luck. ::

 

[pruss]

I pretty much had to walk the chap who worked at Canada Post through his job.

Unfortunately this is becoming the norm. Especially in "Post Office" locations which are actually run by third parties. In my neck of the woods, most of the POs are actually service counters in Shoppers Drug Mart and the employees are challenged to understand basic customer service, much less the complexities of working with CBSA. I admire your sticktuitiveness!
Keep us posted!
-- Pat

 

[drezz01]

. I admire your sticktuitiveness!

It's really my only option. Either I reject the package and the retailer eats the return shipping and headache (though in our email correspondence they had said that, considering the circumstances, they would gladly do so), I just pay out the $374 and chalk it up to the perils of ordering tobacco from the US, or I appeal it and hope for the best.
I'm 50% certain the post office employee (which was located in a shoppers drug mart btw) just marked it return to sender after I left. In the case that he didn't I'm concerned that the duties may have been incurred on the American side of the border in which case I likely have no leg to stand on with the CBSA.
Time will tell - unfortunately in the magnitude of 4-6 weeks.

 

[davet]

There's no duties or charges until it hits Canada, I just got dinged for $84 today. In the event I get a bill like yours I'll make sure I deal with a manager at the Post Office.