Bubbling in Old McClelland Tins

[backdoorhippie]

I mentioned this briefly in another thread, but wanted to ask more specifically about a condition I found in an old tin of McClelland's Christmas Cheer 1996 I opened. I have a number of old tins of various McClelland Virginia flake from the mid-90's that exhibit some degree of bulging. They have been stored in cool temperatures (NJ basement) and I've owed the condition to the firmentation of the sugars in the Virginia, which seems to have been answered/confirmed elsewhere.
My question has to do with the condition of the tin itself. I do not have any old cans of Christmas Cheer, but I do have a couple old tins (same era) of McClelland ribbon cut that were opened in the previous millenium. The newly opened can exhibits some bubbling in the side walls, while the opened cans do not. I am assuming it is the lining of the tin reacting with the gases released (CO2 - anything else?) during the fermentation. Is this something I need to worry about?
Here is a photo of the lining of the two cans so you can see what I'm talking about:

Also, here's a photo of the tobacco itself. I have to assume that the white is not a mold but rather the sugars that caused the fermentation - but if I was 100% sure I wouldn't be asking.

I have a number of tins that I may be looking to trade in the future (please do not take that as an offer to sell or trade - that is not my intent with this post (my newbie apologies if I've broken a rule with that), but I would not want to offer anyone any of this if it is not smoke-worthy.

 

[sjpipesmoker]

I don't have any tins that old so I'm no use... But I'll be hesitant on smoking the tobacco because of the white stuff... Just my opinion...
You might want to contact McClelland.

 

[spartan]

If its fuzzy, it's mold, toss it.
If it looks like white powder, keep it. Sugar crystals, not fuzz.
Hard to tell fromt the pic.
As for the bubbling on the tin... I've never seen that before.
Hopefully one of the old folks here can help. :wink:

 

[backdoorhippie]

Thanks. The first thing I did was give it a wipe with my finger figuring that mold would disperse and sugar would not, and it definitely did not behave like a mold (which I have experienced, particularly in an unlucky cigar humidor). I decided to contact McClelland about the can, but after extensive searching for a website for McClelland in hope of sending an email the best I could do was find their address and phone number. I called and spoke to a woman who told me that, while she wasn't the best person to speak with, it sounded like it was simply sugars and I probably shouldn't worry, but it would be best to get back in touch when Mary got back next Friday.

 

[cortezattic]

I don't know if the bubbling will harm the tobacco; and my guess is not to worry about it, but transfer the tobacco to a Mason jar.

As for the white stuff ...the following is a cut 'n paste from The Pipe Tobacco Aging, Storage and Cellaring FAQ.

6 ~ What are these crystals on my aged tobacco?



Answer: nobody really knows. But Greg Pease has some thoughts...
The crystals that appear on aging tobaccos are more likely something that is soluble within a narrow pH range. These crystals are not very soluble in water. As the tobacco ages, the pH changes, and some things that had previously been in solution may, and apparently do, precipitate out. But, from some very preliminary testing, it is almost certainly not sugar.
GL Pease, 2003-10-01
I don't think the crystals that form on tobacco are sugar. A long time ago, I did some messing around with some of the crystals I discovered in a tin of Virginia, a little analysis, and they did not behave like any sugar that would be in tobacco. They were not even soluble in water! At the time, I could neither harvest enough of them, nor did I have access to the necessary equipment to get a read on what they might be.
GL Pease, 2002-06-26

and also...

My tins are internally coated, as are most tobacco tins. The rust problem is generally a result of the tins being stored in a humid environment; they rust from the outside in. I've had very few tins rust from the inside, though it's not unheard of, and even a good coating can fail occasionally.
GL Pease, 2004-08-27
Some tins fare better than others. The worst tins seem to be thin aluminum ones, whose side walls can become perforated with little pinholes from corrosion far too easily. The next most likely thing to be effected is aluminum pull-tops. Examine these frequently for signs of damage, which will normally first appear as a white powdery area. If you see a problem area, wipe it off with a damp cloth, and keep a close eye on it. If you shake and tap on a tin, and it sounds dry inside (I don't know how to really describe this, but there is a difference in the way dry tobacco "sounds" when it's dry...) it would probably be best to transfer the contents into a glass container immediately. You'll lose some of the "bottle bouquet" of the sealed tin, but you'll save the tobacco.



GL Pease, 2000-06-23
The rust won't hurt you, but it will impart an unpleasant taste and smell to the tobacco, if present in sufficient quantity.
GL Pease, 2002-11-23

 

[spartan]

So it's not sugar... and no one knows what the hell it is.... and we're smoking it?
Awesome.

 

[backdoorhippie]

So it's not sugar... and no one knows what the hell it is.... and we're smoking it?
Awesome.

Wouldn't be the first in my life that I've done that. 8O

 

[backdoorhippie]

I never thought about tins rusting from the inside, but I believe that may be what happened here. I removed the tobacco (it smoked fine) and put it in a Mason jar and the conditions is pervasive throughout the can. With the staining it's difficult to tell whether it's actually rust or just dark stains, but it certainly looks like rust.
I have a calendar entry to contact the folks at McClelland at the end of the week when Mary returns and I will certainly mention this.

 

[sjpipesmoker]

So it's not sugar... and no one knows what the hell it is.... and we're smoking it?
Awesome.
:rofl:

 

[topd]

Think I've said something similar to this in another string.... But I've smoked worse looking

tobacco than that before when in places I knew I couldn't get more. I say smoke it in a cob, see

what it's like before you throw it out.

Now if your lips fall off, I'd toss it along with the cob.

 

[backdoorhippie]

No worries. I've smoked some and it's just fine - and so far no strange growths on the side of my neck. LOL It's in a jar now and the can is set aside in case McClelland is interested in photos of the guts.

 

[pitchfork]

I just popped open a tin of Blackwoods Flake from 1991 and the lining looked just like the one in the OP. Very strange. The tobacco was completely dry as the tin feels as if it had rusted in places -- I can't see a hole, per se, but the walls are very thin.
In any case, does anyone recall seeing this sort of bubbling in the tin lining before?

 

[pitchfork]

These cans have also been known to rust from the outside, particularly around the seams. I suppose this potential problem is why a lot of puffers jar these cans right away if the contents is intended for long-term aging.

This was an ebay purchase. I plan to rehydrate the tobacco, though. It smells fine -- no hint of mold or mildew, just dried out.

 

[gwtwdbss]

I have some 8+ year old tins. I think it depends largely on the environment they are stored in. None of mine show any hint if rust. The ones I have popped open show no bubbling but they are not 22 years old.

 

[pitchfork]

Thanks, Chris. Yeah, I have some 2003 Christmas Cheer and some 2002 GLP Cumberland recently opened and no issues whatsoever.
BTW, I'm smoking the '91 Blackwoods right now and it seems fine.