Blends, Blending Houses, Pipe Makers Lost to FDA

[brightleaf]

This is from page 20 of this pdf

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/tobaccoproducts/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/ucm501230.pdf

FDA does not intend to initiate enforcement action for failure to

have premarket authorization during these respective compliance

periods.
According to that statement it would appear safe for a company to release new blends. These lost blenders can come out of forced retirement for one last hurrah.

 

[Chasing Embers]

These lost blenders can come out of forced retirement for one last hurrah.

I would say that in shutting down and selling serplus they've been placed in a position of never returning, much less of a brief return to glory. Just no money in it. We are watching the last days of tobacco's golden age.

 

[woodsroad]

Jesse said:
"Examples of components or parts that are not covered tobacco products include: a pipe or an ENDS atomizer sold without liquid nicotine."
So, although contradictory, it would appear that pipes are not on the regulatory chopping block as of now.

 

[gecko13]

As I was sorting through my cellar the other evening to find a few tasty tins for my Secret Santa recipient, I thought, "gosh you have become a hoarder for sure." But now in considering this, I don't feel so bad. Even the stuff I don't care for right now, may be good trading stock later. So until it ends, I will continue adding to my tobacco specimen "collection".

 

[cigrmaster]

If an artisan pipe maker goes out of business because he is afraid of the FDA, they should rethink their decision. There is no way an investigator from the FDA would ever in a million years waste his time on a pipe maker who makes what 150-200 pipes a year? Think about it, they have investigators going after major companies not some guy making pipes.
I would also like to see how many investigators they throw at the pipe tobacco companies to see who is following the rules. I would be willing to bet GL Pease and the like could continue selling whatever they want to for years before the FDA figures out what they are doing. I would contact a corporate attorney and find out exactly what the fines are and then keep selling what I want to if the fines are nowhere near the profit I would be earning. I would find out if defying the FDA could land you in jail as then it is not worth it, but for just some fines????

 

[cosmicfolklore]

As to Brad Rowley of Growley Pipes, has he been telling people that the FDA is the reason that he has stopped making pipes? You actually heard him say this?

He is a Briary rat, and... he has his reasons,.. but I think some pipe makers may have tossed that out there as an angry flippant, in response to everything, but...

 

[Chasing Embers]

As to Brad Rowley of Growley Pipes, has he been telling people that the FDA is the reason that he has stopped making pipes? You actually heard him say this?

 

[Chasing Embers]

Not stopped making, stopped selling in the U.S.

 

[cigrmaster]

Sorry but Growley is an idiot if he thinks the FDA is going to give a shit about him and how many pipes he sells. If anyone knows him tell him to get his head out of his ass and stop cutting off his nose to spite his face.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I know him, ha ha. I pretty much just sent Duane a PM saying as much, ha ha.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Not stopped making, stopped selling in the U.S.

Bah ha ha ha ha!!!! :rofl:

 

[piffyr]

There is no way an investigator from the FDA would ever in a million years waste his time on a pipe maker who makes what 150-200 pipes a year? Think about it, they have investigators going after major companies not some guy making pipes.

The don't have the resources to go after every artisan pipe maker, but they could certainly go after one or two. Use them as examples, throw the book at them, hit them with the harshest penalties at their disposal, and then the chilling effect takes care of the rest. Afraid of being put into the same position, other makers abandon the craft of their own accord. From the FDA's standpoint, the strategy is a complete success with little effort.

 

[woodsroad]

Could.

Might.

Aren't.

 

[hawky454]

He’s doing leather work now. Has a site up and everything. Brad is a good dude! I knew him when he just started making pipes, he honed his skills extremely quick, when he decides to do something he fully commits and his leather work is no exception. I’m wanting to get a pipe carrying pouch from him.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

But, what would be the point? You stop one guy making like 100 pipes a year? Do you know how many illegal things happen that people just shrug off everyday? The posted speed limit is 70MPH in Alabama, but ask anyone driving through Alabama what the speed limit is, "What speed limit?" If you are driving less than 80MPH, the police will pull you over to laugh in your face. There is a law on the books, and then you have reality.

 

[cigrmaster]

piffyr, sorry but that scenario doesn't work for me. If the FDA is going to go after anyone in the pipe and tobacco industry they are going to go after someone like Smokingpipes or PC or a tobacco mfg. If they wasted time on a guy like Growley, they would lose their freaking jobs.

 

[sasquatch]

The letter of the law is one thing, the intent (and prosecution/enforcement) is another. This whole FDA thing is actually ironic in that it's a push from big tobacco to get ahold of the vape stuff, which was taking a big bite out of their profits. So that's why things are written up this way - it makes giant corporations the only ones with enough financial clout to control/launch product, and they'll basically have a monopoly because of it.
Welcome to the new world order, guys. It's gonna suck real bad.
Most of the pipe makers I have talked to are not super concerned. Keep your head down, maybe don't write "tobacco pipe manufacturer" on your income tax form, but "artisanal woodworker", that kind of thing.
Up here in Canada the law is explicitly the opposite, pipes are not regulated at all, for tobacco or anything else (in fact any pipe/tobacco shop up here will be filled with glass bongs at this point and a few dusty old kaywoodies). So I'm good to go up here! And I find it a little hard to imagine that the customs agents at the border are hunting through the million or so boxes they see every day looking for a wooden pipe, when smuggled humans, animals, drugs, weapons etc are being found every day.

 

[piffyr]

There is a law on the books, and then you have reality.

True, but when your only hope of not being prosecuted is not being investigated, then you can't really fault someone for not being willing to take the risk. Getting a speeding ticket on the highway is one thing, but getting hit with fines intended to punish multinational corporations when you're just a lone guy in a workshop is something very different. It's potentially ruinous.

piffyr, sorry but that scenario doesn't work for me.

The FDA has already leveraged the deeming rules against boutique vape shops and the effect has been as I described.
My work specializes in small businesses. I've seen similar scenarios play out. The investment on the part of the regulatory body is minimal. They're not going to be tied up in court for long periods like they would if they challenged a larger entity. The small guys buckle under the weight pretty fast.

 

[cigrmaster]

piffyr, how is the FDA going to stop a guy who has maybe 4 pipes at a time on his website? Are they going to actually go through their legal department for something this small? I just don't see it. We will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[warren]

Don't forget about the competition who has three pipe