Balkan vs. English: What's The Difference?

[sladeburns]

It would be great if there was a style guide blenders used along the lines of beer home brew competition BJCP guidelines. Unfortunately, it seems tobacco companies are pretty loosely-goosey with labels. I am a relative newbie to the width and breadth of the amazing variety of blends out there and the Balkan thing confused me too.
That said, I like Jud's take on it. Simple and clear with plenty of room for blenders to do that voodoo they do so well.

 

[andrew]

I think the general consensus is that balkans have orientals in them and englishes don't

No several english blends have orientals, it seems like some consensus is that the orientals in balkan blends have to be from the balkan region. Here you can read this article I was speaking of earlier and even GL. Pease, Russ Oulette, and 2 others that all can't agree on what constitutes a balkan blend. Which is why I think it's mainly just a name given to a pretty much English blend. Also once latakia is added it's no longer an english blend which I didn't know either.

PipesMagazine.com: If you had to, how would you describe what makes a Balkan Blend a Balkan Blend?

Mary: The term ‘Balkan Blend’ is a loosely used term referring to any blend that contains Balkan tobaccos. Generally speaking, we tend to define it as a Balkan blend if it has a pretty good amount of Balkan tobaccos in it.

Russ: Over the years it has come to mean, to me, a Latakia blend in which Orientals are the secondary note. So that means that after the main influence of Latakia, the next thing that you notice is the influence of the Oriental and Turkish tobaccos. That then, to me, fulfills the kind of antiquated description of Balkan.

GLP: I can’t answer that question because, as I said in my article - What is a Balkan Blend?, I think the term is pretty much meaningless. But it does bring up some interesting points for discussion.

Craig: Our description of a Balkan Blend is as follows: Latakia and Orientals are added to a base of Virginias. English blends may or may not have a percentage of Orientals but Balkans will always have a percentage of Orientals.
PM: What would you say are the primary tobaccos used in a Balkan Blend?

Mary: Orientals from the Balkans are the primary tobaccos. Other types of tobaccos such as Virginia, Burley, Latakia, etc. can be used in the blend to complete it, but it has to have Balkan Orientals as the primary tobaccos.

Russ: Latakia, Oriental, Turkish [2] tobaccos. Virginias may be used and sometimes there may be some Perique as well.

GLP: Latakia, Oriental, and Virginia tobaccos.

Craig: Latakia, Oriental, and Virginia tobaccos.
PM: Would you say that the inclusion of Latakia is necessary in order for a blend to be called a Balkan Blend?

Mary: No. It just needs a good portion of Balkan Oriental tobaccos.

Russ: Yes.

GLP: Yes.

Craig: Yes.
PM: How would you place in order of importance the types of tobaccos used in a Balkan Blend?

Mary: Orientals from the Balkan region have to be the dominate feature. There are a variety of other tobaccos that can be used to make up the blend, but the Balkan Orientals have to be the main focus.

Russ: Latakia is the main focus with Orientals being the secondary note and there may very well be Virginia tobaccos.

GLP: Latakia is dominate, a sturdy backbone of Virginia, and a seasoning with Orientals.

Craig: I don’t think that this is a valid question because it all depends on what the blender is trying to do with the blend. Sometimes you may want a heavier Latakia content and sometimes you may want a lighter amount of Latakia.

——————–
Once again, while some really good information, opinions, and discussions have been obtained, there still doesn’t seem to be a clear cut definition for what a Balkan Blend really is. There does seem to be a general agreement as to what makes one, but it is not a unanimous agreement. It seems that the definition of a Balkan Blend is still left to interpretation and opinion. While some questions may have been answered, new questions have been raised. The term Balkan Blend is still shrouded in mystery.

As for the answer to the question; What exactly is a Balkan Blend?

Well, to quote the end of the old Tootsie-Pop commercial; The world may never know.

http://pipesmagazine.com/python/pipe-tobacco/the-mystery-of-balkan-blends/
I kind of agree with G.L. Pease on this one.

 

[andrew]

http://glpease.com/BriarAndLeaf/?p=90 Gl. Pease's take on it.

 

[novicemaker]

so from what i read there, it is just a fancy pants term.

 

[doctorthoss]

There has been a lot of debate over the past 3-4 years as to whether we should stop using terms like Balkan and english altogether because there really doesn't seem to any consensus as to their meanings. I've been smoking Latakia for a couple of decades, and I'd never heard the term Balkan until I joined the interet pipe community. I "grew up" hearing Latakia mixtures described as "light English," "English/medium English," and "heavy English" (or at least how we described them in east Tennessee). For the most part, e blends we now call Balkan would have been described as heavy English back then, because the terms tended to allude to how strong the latakia and/or other orientals were. It was crude, but it worked.

 

[bowler1]

This is a good question that I have wondered about too. Seems not to be a really solid answer.

 

[rmbittner]

Doctorthoss wrote:
"For the most part, e blends we now call Balkan would have been described as heavy English back then, because the terms tended to allude to how strong the latakia and/or other orientals were."
So, you're saying you'd never heard of Balkan Sobranie or Balkan Sasieni prior to joining the Internet community? That surprises me, since the former is one of the best-known blends of the 20th century. (And it's current incarnation will likely carry that tradition on for the 21st as well.)
To be honest, I think that the Pease blends described as Balkans fit my personal definition perfectly. Smoke a Pease Balkan blend and you will know, by actual experience, what distinguishes a Balkan from any other variety of "English" blend. A Balkan is not simply a "heavy English." For example, I'd consider Gordon Pym a heavy English, and its proportions are nothing like a Balkan blend.
Bob

 

[rmbittner]

Bowler:
As I mentioned above, all you have to do is smoke a Balkan and you'll immediately understand what the difference is. If you can, get ahold of the new Balkan Sobranie; it's a quintessential Balkan blend. It will show you with one bowl how it differs from a standard English blend. If you can't find the Sobranie, then try GLPease's Caravan.
I say this because people can debate their assumptions for days. But the fact is that the definition of what a Balkan really is is perfectly represented in the tin. Smoke a Balkan, smoke a standard English, and your questions will be answered.
Bob

 

[escioe]

Dear Bob: I always liked this point of Pease's.

Most smokers of Latakia blends, when asked, would probably hold up that Sobranie stuff as the prototypical “Balkan blend,” and this certainly makes some sense. On the other side of the Balkan/English coin, Dunhill’s London Mixture, first created in 1928, would serve as well as the classic exemplar of an English mixture. Unfortunately, this is troublesome in any attempt to solidify our definitions, since the two blends are precisely the opposites of what we would think of them as being, given the connotations of these terms in our currently fashionable parlance; London Mixture contains relatively little virginia leaf in its makeup, and Balkan Sobranie, quite a lot!

That all evaporates if you want to say that London Mix isn't an English blend.
I like the term latakia blend, though I can guess at what people mean when they say Balkan or English.

 

[rmbittner]

Thanks, Escioe.
I need to comment on something that I think can be confusing, though. First, I give Greg Pease the last word on *everything* tobacco-related. But he's talking about *quantity* of Virginia leaf in the above quote. I'm talking about the actual flavor on the palate. So while Balkan Sobranie may contain more VA than an English blend such as London Mixture (which I think is a wonderful English, by the way), it doesn't smoke as if it does; in the bowl, it's the latakia and orientals that come through most strongly, and the VA is a solid background element. (At least, this is how it plays for me!)
I don't define a Balkan by the actual percentages of any one leaf. I define it by how those flavors manifest themselves in the bowl.
Bob

 

[pipedreamer]

I love Balkins!

 

[blendtobac]

I feel that it's less the amount, than the influence, of the Orientals. Some of that leaf has a very strong impact on the flavor of a blend, even if the amount is somewhat less. For me, a "Balkan" exhibits the ability of Orientals to elevate the flavor and aroma of the Latakia beyond that of the Virginias. But I agree with Greg that the terminology is antiquated and inaccurate. I like his description of "Latakia blend, Oriental-forward".
Russ

 

[bowler1]

Bob,

Okay, I will give it a shot. Of all the tobacco blends that I smoke, the Latakia blends intrigue me the most. To me there are so many subtleties to identify.
Matt

 

[bowler1]

I will try come HH Blackhouse back to back with an English blend. Blackhouse is supposedly a very good rendition of a "true" Balkan bland, supposedly...

 

[doctorthoss]

Mbittner:

Not only had I heard of BS, I smoked quite a bit of it cause, when I started smoking in 1990, it was a drugstore blend with lots of Latakia. The only one, in fact. But I had never heard of the term "Balkan" being applied to a genre. It would have been like someone calling burley blends "Prince Alberts"! Pease did some research, I believe, and concluded that the term Balkan evolved through internet discussion groups to apply to blends similar in conceptto BS. I don't now accurate that is, but I will again say I had never heard the term used until I joined the Internet pipe community. Latakia blends where described as English, with other terms attached to allude to more specific characteristics.

 

[rmbittner]

doctorthoss:
I do get it. But the fact is, the very name "Balkan Sobranie" is a use of the word "balkan" to describe a style. Balkan Sobranie isn't the name of a company; Sobranie released at least two other blends that were quite different. Maybe there's some confusion because they said "Balkan Sobranie" instead of "Sobranie Balkan," but the meaning was exactly the same. And Balkan Sasieni may have been around just as long.
Bob

 

[doctorthoss]

I'm now wondering what we are discussing! I had never heard the term "Balkan" to describe any product other than the Balkan Sobranie pipe tobacco or cigarettes. There were different types (759, the iconic white mix, etc), but they were are all pipe tobacco from that company. I'm not aware of any other producer calliing their blends "Balkan" mixtures, or of any other cigarettes being described as Balkan cigarettes. If the term wasn't used by tobacco manufacturers or the community in general, I guess I personally don't think we could say it was a term that was commonly used to designate a blend with a focus on Latakia and orientals (unless you are aware of some marketing material or books from the per-Internet era that use the term in such a way). And the BAlkan Sasieni. If I recall, was blended and marketed specifically to appeal to smokers of BS after one of its many recipe changes (the makers used the term "Balkan sasieni" not because they were trying to refer to a style of tobacco but rather to draw the attention of customers who smoked BS). Also, of course, I beljeve that Pease himself did some research along these lines and concluded the term "balkan" was not used to describe a genre of pipe tobacco until the Internet era, when it evolved into something like "blend in the tradition of the old BS." Greg,of corse,has been arguing for years now that the term "Balkan blend" be done away with completely because it is so imprecise as to be practically meaningless,

Insofar as Pease's blends,I have smoked all of his mixtures containing Latakia (except for some of his limited editions) and love them. That being said, I would have been comfortable years ago classifying, say, Odyssey or Abingdon as heavy english blends alongside 759, Nightcap, or even Pirate Kake. I would have called Caravan a heavy or perhaps a medium along with London Mixture, Presbyterian, or any number of others.

 

[doctorthoss]

Please forgive some of my grammatical idiosyncrasies - I am typing on an IPad because my computer is in the shop and I'm having a very difficult time with the keyboard.

 

[doctorthoss]

Please forgive some of my grammatical idiosyncrasies - I am typing on an IPad because my computer is in the shop and I'm having a very difficult time with the keyboard.

 

[metarzan]

Great thread. Interesting how orientals have so much impact. One thing I wonder about Hearth and Home blends is that when you go to TobaccoReviews ( http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/brand/787/hearth-home ) and view their 60 blends, NONE of them are categorized as an Oriental. A great many of the H&H blends contain Oriental leaf but not one Oriental blend. Is Oriental another broad antiquated term that can be broken down more specifically or does Russ just not like Oriental blends? :lol: