Any Black Powder Shooters Out There?

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bentmike

Lifer
Jan 25, 2012
2,422
37
That's interesting. No doubt it would work the same for a little barrel as it would for a giant one.
I poked around the web and there is plenty on the subject. Here is a good quote from Tracy Kunze and Michael Couture the founders of Seacoast Artillery Co. Makers of 1/6 scale Civil War Artillery. The statement was in response to a question about the subject on a BP forum.:
"In our relatively extensive reading on the subject of rifling, constant twist and gain twist, we have learned a few things. Robert Parrott wrote that his major concern was the shock imparted to those frequently fragile cast-iron shells used in the 1850s and 60s. The gain twist obviously would reduce the torsional forces on the shell at the critical starting point in the bore when the forces of acceleration were also trying to rip it apart. The heavy shell, naval artillery of many nations used it for the same reason. In WWII, the extremely accurate, German 88 used gain twist with no loss of velocity noted.
In a scale Parrott of 1" bore diameter, the advantages would be the same as Harry Pope, maker of legendary Pope rifle barrels noted:
"The advantages for gain twist listed back then where these: The twist being less at the breech gives less friction to the bullet, it therefore starts easier and quicker, giving the powder less time to burn on in front of the chamber, which therefore fouls less than in a barrel of uniform twist at the same necessary muzzle twist/pitch. Also, the slight change in angle of rifling in connection with choke boring, effectually shuts off any escape of gas and prevents gas cutting, which is another cause of imperfect delivery. It holds a muzzle loaded bullet in position much better than a uniform/straight twist barrel.
The above is quoted from the manual of Stevens-Popes barrels literature and remember they are referring to lead bullets.
Now lets fast forward a bunch of years. There are differences in shooting lead bullets vs. jacketed bullets. I'm not claiming I or let alone anyone else I can think of knows all the real answers but I will share some observations.
The gain twist type rifling will what we call will give a mechanical choke on the bullet just like with lead bullets. A lot of bench shooters always ask for the bores of the barrels to be lapped with choke in them (this is another subject). Some comments made to us about the gain twist is that is seems to give a broader tune window (i.e. different bullets and different powders and or charge weights) the barrels seem to be more forgiving." This is all from Frank Green of Bartlein Barrels.
Bartlein barrels have been used by more than 60% of match winning bench rest shooters since 2008. All their barrels are cut-rifled and a large majority are gain twist rifled.
Victor, besides the obvious advantage of a "reduction of stripping", from all of our reading, we have drawn these two conclusions: One, the fact that a mechanical choke is created by forcing the bullet constantly against the driving side of the rifling land reduces gas cutting and blow by. Two, this form of rifling offers an accuracy advantage over button rifled bores by being available only in cut rifled bores. Over 90% of match winning competitive rifle shooters use cut rifled barrels."

Reduction of stripping was my guess.

 

petes03

Lifer
Jun 23, 2013
6,212
10,654
The Hills of Tennessee
I've been shooting BP for several years now. I've always been into shooting, but only recently jumped into BP. I prefer Goex FFF real black powder and CCI No. 11 mag caps. I've got several BP guns at the moment, a Lyman "Great Plains" .54cal, a Thompson Center "New Englander" .50cal, a Jukar (CVA made) Kentucky Long Rifle .45cal. All of my BP rifles are side locks. I've also got a .36cal wheel gun, but it needs a new set of nipples on it.
I also cast my own round balls for my .50cal, as it gets shot the most. I use 100% pure lead for casting. I also make a lot of my own accessories, I made a possibles bag out of an old welding jacket, powder measures out of shell casings, ball starter out of Cherry wood ect.
I used to have an uncle, who's now passed away, who made BP rifles from scratch! He was a licensed black smith, a licensed gun smith, a certified welder and a master machinist.

He pounded out his own barrels, made his own locks and furniture, and did his own rifling! He was also a great wood worker and carved out some beautiful stocks!
He passed away when I was 10-12yrs old, but I still remember going over to their house and going out to his shop and watching him work on them. He was actually about to start on one for me before he passed away.

 

smokeybear

Lifer
Dec 21, 2012
2,202
25
Brampton,Ontario,Canada
That Patterson is absolutely beautiful! Who makes that? I'm guessing it's not an Uberti...
No not uberti which I like also, but the Patterson that there is from the mind of Samuel Colt himself.
However now that I think about it uberti does make there own version of the Patterson and if I recall correctly they do an outstanding job at it.

 

mustanggt

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 6, 2012
819
4
I shoot Sharps BPCR rifles. Two 45 2 1/0" and a 50 2 1/2" with 75gr of Swiss 3F and 110gr 1F.

9tsw.jpg


wr99.jpg


 

htmn246

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 11, 2010
239
1
I'm into BP shooting also I have a 1860 Colt army and 1858 Remington. For fun last winter I built a Traditions Blunderbuss.

 

smokeybear

Lifer
Dec 21, 2012
2,202
25
Brampton,Ontario,Canada
I love the Tang Sight on your rifles Mustanggt.
For those of you who like the classic sights for your BP, Marlins Etc check out this guy i used his sights for my Marlin. Great service and great product.
His names Andy Stand up guy, i dealt with him 5 years ago and he still remembers me cause he was helping my decide what to use. A+++++ no joke.
Skinner Sights

 

mustanggt

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 6, 2012
819
4
I've got skinner sites on two marlins myself. Those tang sights are soule sights for long range Creedmoor or other BPCR competition.

 

fitzy

Lifer
Nov 13, 2012
2,937
27
NY
Nice guns guys. I've been looking into getting an inline BP as in my county you can't hunt with a rifle only a shotgun or a muzzleloader. Most guys I know hunt with a modern muzzleloader as they are much more accurate than a shotgun and better at longer ranges. I've got a friend who shoots regularly with his modern muzzleloader at some pretty long distances.

 

bentmike

Lifer
Jan 25, 2012
2,422
37
Thanks for replies guys. And some fine shootin irons you all have.
@mustanggt That is a sweet trio of Sharps. If I was in for a BP breech loader that would be the gun. I first learned about the Sharps from Selleck's Quigley movie and been a fan ever since. Your model with the curly wood and silver nose cap is my favorite. That rifle is a beauty.
@pete03 That's too bad you never got a chance to have a rifle built by your uncle. At least you have the memories of watching him do his craft. That's just as cool but in a different way. You also point out a great part about the hobby that is making up your own possibles if one has the inclination. Here's the ball starter I made out of Black Walnut to match the stock on my rifle.


I'd like to try my hand at scrimshaw so I plan to start working on a horn this winter.

 

petes03

Lifer
Jun 23, 2013
6,212
10,654
The Hills of Tennessee
Thanks Mike, I am glad I have those memories. And yes, I think making your own possibles is great! I believe it give you a link to the past in a way. Most of mine are very crude, which is very similar to what most mountain man possibles looked like anyway. As a guy who's been trained as a machinist/ welder/ fabricator, I don't get along well with wood and leather as well as I do metal. I make things that are functional, but that's not to say I don't enjoy it, because I do! I also made my own melting pot and ladle for casting.

 

aaronbrill

Might Stick Around
Sep 28, 2012
72
1
Nice guns guys! I'm a black powder fan myself, of all my guns the one I enjoy shooting the most is my reproduction Colt (Pietta) 1860 Army. One of these days I'll add another BP revolver to the collection, maybe a Colt Dragoon or Walker model. I also have a CVA Kentucky pistol that I assembled from a kit, but that doesn't see as much action as the 1860.

 

mustanggt

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 6, 2012
819
4
They are all C. Sharps. They are just down the street from Shiloh. They were one company 30+ years ago but got divorced. The barrels on all three are Badger.

 

checotah

Part of the Furniture Now
Feb 7, 2012
504
3
Am just getting into BP Cowboy shooting, albeit the cartridge variety. Replicas of Burgess rifle, Colt Peacemakers, and Colt 1878 shotgun. Rifle and pistols in .44-40, and pair of 1875 Remington replicas in .45 Colt. Also have a 1858 Remington replica cap and ball that I usually use in Old West reenactments, without the ball, of course....

 

bentmike

Lifer
Jan 25, 2012
2,422
37
Great pic jeepnewbie! I've never shot a side lock pistol, always wanted to though.
Got out this weekend while the weather was nice and got some range time in with family and friends. Took along the Ruger Old Army .45 and put 36 rounds through it. Using Hornady .457 round balls, lubed wads over 35 grains of Pyrodex P and #11 caps.


Naturally the heft of the Old Army makes it a joy to shoot off hand on the strong side but I like to shoot from a sandbag rest too.

My son scored two bulls out of six shots his first time shooting the ROA.

 

onepyrotec

Lifer
Feb 20, 2013
1,091
7,101
Nevada
z2ZhqGbCt9Q


youtube 45-70
When we were at the shooting range, the guy a few stations down let my son fire his replica Sharps Shilo 45-70. Shooting this made him want the real thing...just a few hundred more laws to cut and he will have it.
I don't remember how or if videos can be embedded so click the link above.

 

bentmike

Lifer
Jan 25, 2012
2,422
37
Great video pyro! Wow! I don't even want to think what the .45-110 or 120 would feel like. Taking the boys (or girls for that matter) out shooting is the best.

 

cavendish

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 22, 2013
806
1
I have a Brown Bess smokepole however I haven't fired it in quite a while. I really should get back to using it but I find bow hunting just as thrilling and the farm I hunt the farmer said no guns, bows only and I respect his wishes.

 
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