Your Opinion Requested

[foggymountain]

I need the opinions of a few of you thoughtful reasonable people. I placed a large order for pipecleaners from pipes&cigars, a well regarded vendor by those on this site. Ups sent a substitute driver who left the package inside the front door of the building (no doorman). Since I had already made my trip down & up the stairs for that day, I expected to pick it up the next day. When I got to the package it had been opened and probably burgled. I declined to touch it since it had neither been delivered properly nor signed for. I notified the vendor and they say there isn't much they can do. It seems that the driver forged my signature. I can A) Call the police to report the forgery B)Make a non delivery claim with Paypal, which will result in me being credited for the amount of the sale or C) Take the package and absorb the loss of whatever is missing, and hesitate to ever buy on the web again. What would you do? Bear in mind that the integrity of the Fedex/UPS delivery system is at stake here. If a consumer can't place an order & expect it to be delivered to his door unopened and with nothing missing, the entire internet purchase system becomes a questionable risk.

 

[baronsamedi]

I've had problems with UPS smashing and mis-delivering packages before. I'd hesitate to take it out on the retailer, since it really wasn't their fault. It's really on UPS if you ask me. They are the ones who decided to fake-sign for it and drop it and they know that's wrong. Not sure what the police would do, but if a UPS driver gets multiple reports of mishandling deliveries, I suspect there would be some sort of disciplinary action.

 

[stanwellman]

It would appear that this is between you and the delivery service. Personally I would be on my way to the local UPS office responsible for your area and asking to speak to the supervisor there regarding this matter. Barring a satisfactory resolution of the issue at the lowest level, a phone call to the UPS head office/manager of claims would be my next step.

While at the local office, I would be asking for a copy of the “delivered and signed for” slip and keeping track of the names of the persons I spoke to and their responses should the call to HQ become necessary. You would be amazed at what the power of a single, well prepared and spoken person can be when dealing with corporate ineptness.

Good luck to you.

 

[eaglerico]

I would take it up with UPS. Their claims department has been great every time I have dealt with them. My best example, my room mate in college bought a used Calloway Big Bertha golf club online. Paid $100 for it. They broke the shaft in half during shipping. They paid for a brand new one at over $300 a week later.
I am not sure but if you take it up with PayPal I think they will refund your money but at the same time take it from P&C and they might not want to work with you again if you do that.
Also, I have never signed for a package that was delivered from P&C. It was always sent with no signature required and left at my front door.

 

[flmason]

I would contact UPS to resolve the forged signature issue and then I would also contact the vendor. The vendor may want to stop using that company for delivery. If this same issue impacts too many of their customers they might loose lots of future business.
I hope UPS will make it right and compensate you for the missing items.

 

[numbersix]

Sorry to hear it Foggy. Have you checked the contents yet? If everything's there I would probably just log a complaint with UPS and forget about it (for me, life's too short to make a federal case out of it).
If things were stolen, then I think I'd take it up with UPS and PayPal.
All in all, if this is a one time occurrence, I would likely continue to place orders from the 'net. If it happened to me more than once, then I'd re-consider. Is there a neighbor you trust that is home all the time and would accept packages for you?
Do you work outside of the home and if so, can you receive packages at work?
Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[bigvan]

So you left the package unattended, overnight, and you're surprised it's been tampered with.

 

[captainprophesy]

I would have to agree with Rothnh in that the retailer should at the very least help out as they are the ones that offered said delivery company.
But I would definitely talk to the local office and if need to talk to the headquarters... if they wont play nice, then I would definitely go to the police and file charges for forgery against the driver as well as the delivery company.
So have you checked the contents? is there in fact anything missing?

 

[rotschefeller]

It wasn't the retailers fault, and police will likely do absolutely nothing.
Your problem is with UPS, others have already given great tips on how to deal with them

 

[taerin]

Forging a signature is a crime, I'd go to UPS and ask for a copy of the pape you "signed" then I would ask for reimbursement after showing them a copy of your signature on a legal document and show how they do not match. I'm pretty sure a manager would listen to this and would probabley later on try to nail the employee who did it. Forging documents is a pretty serious business, no company wants employees who do this, it could get them into hot water. I do not care if it was over pipe cleaners, I would never allow someone to get away with forging my signature.

 

[dochudson]

sorry don't know much about NYC living.. does the UPS guy usually deliver packages to your door? If you knew there was a package in your lobby for you and you decided to leave it overnight does that having any bearing on your problem? around these parts an unattended package in a lobby probably would have brought the bomb squad. I would have taken a couple of pictures and then inventoried to see what was missing and then started with UPS,

 

[05venturer]

I would say it seems to be a problem with the delivery and nothing else. It would not have mattered if the product was ordered online, by phone or whatever. The problem was a forged signature apparently and that should be taken up with either authorities or delivery service.

 

[zanthal]

UPS would likely be very concerned if they knew one of their delivery drivers was opening other people's mail.

 

[vaboatbuilder]

i had this problem with a package i had sen to my son from walmart. two years later i still get email from ups asking if i got my package. but walmart gave me a full refund and sent same package to my son fed ex for free even tho i tried to pay for the item.

 

[dragonslayer]

If you have a computer, or smart phone and going down the stairs is a problem, all you have to do is click on "tracking" from your order email (you already know it's coming that day) and it will show the status. On that day it will have you as "in route" then "delivered" within minutes. So you know it’s there. UPS will take care of your problem, not worth their time, and just adds to a cost that we all pay. You may end up with a CAVEAT on deliveries from then on “not to deliver without a signature”, and then you would have to wait and try to catch them before they leave the note each day, after two attempts you’ll have no choice but going to the office and pick up all packages. So balance the option, few people want their package not left at the door, and that’s why you have a choice of methods. He only forged you signature if you requested “sign for” otherwise they have guidelines on where they can leave a package or not. You can change and choose “only deliver with signature” on your tracking page.
Whatever you do, don't go after P&T or PAYPAL, neither had anything to do with it, this was a delivery issue; they fulfilled their responsibilities and can damage future relationships. We all pay for the abuse of the system from claims; they pass it on to all of us. The only true "criminal" is who opened the box and stole your things. That's a police matter, not knowing your relationship with local authorities, balance value or person feelings against your reputation with the local police.
Craig

 

[Perique]

Option D: file a police report for forgery, and take UPS to small claims court. It is unlikely they will show up and you will win a default judgement.
Problem with option A is that the police won't so anything. Problem with option B is that it unfairly punishes a cherished vendor and member of the pipe smoking community in good standing. Problem with option C is that you should not have to absorb the loss.
All that said, my deliveries from this vendor are never signed for. Simply dropped off. Did you request this shipping service?

 

[dlattim]

I have some experience with this as I run an online shop. The items you bought belong to the vender until you sign for them unless they are shipped F.O.B. venders warehouse. In that case they are yours the moment they ship and therefore the shipping is your responsibility. Since these items are not shipped F.O.B. they still belong to the shipper. What should happen is that the shipper should file a claim with UPS to be handled by the UPS claims department and at the same time send you a new shipment of the same order at no charge. If they refuse to do that contact Paypal. If you ask for proof of delivery from UPS they will most likely return a document that shows "left on doorstep" on the signature line. The risk belongs to UPS, the responsibility to file the claim lies with the shipper. All this will be time consuming, but actually you are off the hook once you contact Paypal. I'm sure you will get your refund and the shipper has no recourse against you. Believe me, I've been through this before as the shipper. I can not charge back the items to the customer again after Paypal refunds the money, at least not legally.

 

[gwtwdbss]

Don't forget that every UPS package is insured for $100 without paying any extra for it. I would submit a claim with them if it was me.

 

[dlattim]

UPS will only accept the claim from the shipper at this point. Legally it still belongs to the shipper as I said above. However, if whoever you talk to at UPS is on the ball they will take the information and contact the shipper for claim information. In my experience my customers have notified me as the shipper and I had to file the claim. Being an upright vender I never waited for UPS to pay the claim. I always re-ship the product with my apologies then wait for UPS to pay me. It doesn't belong to the consignee until it is signed for, even if the credit card has been debited.

One other thing, if you do tell UPS you got the package but it was damaged they will want a picture of it and possibly even send a rep out to retrieve/inspect it. This is bad for the shipper because their standard out in this case is to say it was packaged poorly and then never pay the shipper his claim. It would be best for P&C if you never got the package (follow my drift).

 

[dochudson]

I think we know the package had been opened but we don't know who opened it. Also, I don't believe we even know if anything was missing or damaged.