You Mean They Can Legally Not Hire Me Because I Smoke?

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conlejm

Lifer
Mar 22, 2014
1,433
8
I read somewhere that several health associations (Heart Association, Lung Association, Cancer Association, etc.) are against these Smoker Hiring Bans because they disproportionately affect lower-income individuals (i.e. The poor, who have a higher smoking rate than upper-income individuals), and because they feel smoking cessation programs are a better, less draconian solution. Not often do Big Tobacco and Health Associations agree on anything, but in this instance, they do. That is, they are both against smokers being discriminated against.

 

tuold

Lifer
Oct 15, 2013
2,133
172
Beaverton,Oregon
Ravenwolf opined:
What I do off the clock isn't their concern.
A quaint notion these days, indeed. We are all part of the collective and everything we do affects our neighbors whom we also depend on for social order. The idea of the individual living a self sufficient life is a selfish and outmoded paradigm. (I've actually had people tell me this) Sure my agricultural reforms will cause famine and kill millions, but it's for the good of the people!
Leaving the realms of sarcasm now.....
Suppose you could afford to buy your own health insurance at reasonable rates without subsidies and there were many insurance companies you could choose for to buy a policy. You could purchase a policy that fit your needs and living conditions using the medical facilities and doctors you choose. Well, it seems to me this is the situation we should all be aiming for in our quest to solve the health care mess. Yet it is just the opposite course we are sailing. The reason is that while government is great at creating sweeping policies for all citizens, it really sucks at serving the individual. One size fits all. Outliers are fined for being a drag on the system. My proposals would still require government regulation of insurance companies, but that is still much better than regulating citizens.
Make me King and I will see that pipe smokers are treated fairly!

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
12,346
18,527
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
ae1pt: Some of our members revel in taking umbrage with statements made. They enjoy being offended and will not, under most circumstances accept explanations or apologies with good grace. You'll just have to live with the shame of having offended someone's sensibilities. It's not as if you or I haven't done it before and . . . will no doubt unintentionally do it again. I sometimes offend people with the intent to do so.
As sarcasm and irony are synonyms I suspect that only extremely broad sarcasm (irony?) should be used on the "net" as anything less is too subtle for some to grasp. Either that or the disgusting emoticon must be used so as to offend as few as possible. I find the emoticon to be offensive as it implies that I have no sense of humor or grasp of sarcasm (irony?). And to use one would imply that I am unable to find the right phrasing for a statement and must use the emoticon as a crutch for my lack of a decent grasp of punctuation, phrasing, and indeed the language.
So now you have offended me with your use of emoticons. :wink:
Ohhh! This is soooo much fun! :nana: :puffy: :roll:

 

gtclark

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 3, 2013
512
3
I think the issue here is one's conception of intrinsic "rights". If they exist, they do not cease to exist or come into being thanks to socio-political change. If inalienable rights exist, they have always existed for everyone, despite the myriad justifications offered throughout history to deny them to certain populations. I don't think many will argue the US has a great record in allowing the exercise of these rights, but I will argue the ideal is sound, and worth fighting for.
On to the issue at hand: yes, the employer "owns" the job, and has a right to hire who they want. However, the employer does not "own" the employee at all hours of the day, as long as they hold employment. At home, the employee is a private citizen, and has the right to live the life of a private citizen, engaging in whatever legal activity they see fit. When we allow the employer to follow the employee home, I believe we're going down a very slippery slope. This is happening now, and in my opinion, is contrary to the ideal of personal freedom. (Again, rights cannot be legislated out of existence, only ignored or repressed).
Employers argue employees that smoke are statistically more likely to require expensive medical treatment. Therefore, they have the right to deny employment based upon the smoker's decision to keep smoking. I cannot see how this rationale stops with smokers. The next logical step is to deny employment to the obese and overweight. I will not attempt to guess where the road goes on from there. However, I do predict citizen's rights will continue to erode in the name of corporate interest.
Again, my argument is valid only if you accept my premise. If you don't acknowledge individual inalienable rights exist beyond the scope of legislation, the debate needs to be re-framed. I'm writing from the assumption most Americans, even those against the use of tobacco, accept this as a foundational ideal. If I'm right, it's not too late to change how the debate is framed, despite the efforts of some to name tobacco users "deviant".

 

brudnod

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 26, 2013
938
6
Great Falls, VA
WOW, that was kind of odd. Sure we all have gripes about this, that and the other, but this is still the best country on the planet for the opportunities and freedoms. Every time I come back from another country I am stuck by how beautiful our flag is and how glad I am to be home. I am pained to hear Robin rail at our Nazi state and hope that he represents a tiny and diminishing view point.

 

andypandy

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 7, 2013
195
0
Oslo, Norway
Well, what I've most enjoyed have been the level of discussion ae1pt have brought to this thread, but I also found the riffing on emoticons amusing as well. :)

 

cobguy

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
3,742
17
This thread is rife with sesquipedalian loquaciousness and has become inapropos to the inaugural post.

 

conlejm

Lifer
Mar 22, 2014
1,433
8
Regarding this wave of employment bans on nicotine-users, I wonder if in these same States there are bans on nicotine-users for Medicaid or Welfare. Seems unfair if you could get public assistance but not employment.
My teachers didn't learn me good English in school, so I have no idea what is being said in the last several posts. And as for Philosophy, I'm still at the "if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball" level of comprehension:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMWdnkSMPGM

 

cobguy

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
3,742
17
:rofl: :rofl:
Your circuitous and desultory macrology coerces me to peruse the thesaurus.
I do, however, luxuriate in the contingency of it's furthered propagation.
Alas, my contribution has come to fruition as it may become unpropitious if furthered.

 
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