Will the SCOTUS Chevron Decision Affect FDA Tobacco Rulemaking?

[Hillcrest]

The majority of the population say get their "news" from antisocial media, ... ... anonymous "influencers".

Did you see the Dairy farmer who announced to those who need to hear it ... cows don't fart ! and the Immunologist who said to those who need to hear it ... cows can't get bird flu ?

My first thought was is that true ? How could everyone have missed it if true ??? Why did none say it before ???

 

[buroak]

I must disagree, no surprise of course, the blame rests entirely on an electorate, us, we vote single issue or totally uninformed about the candidates. The voters can simply be naive or, exclusively concerned with what's good for them and their wallets. Candidates understand this singularity and play to it. Voters, by and large, seem to me to be extremely gullible and are lacking, at least many of them, the willingness to put their wants after the needs of the country. Tell me you thoroughly research each candidate, each issue, and vote, not for your personal interests but, for what's best for the country as a whole. Hell, I can't say that every election.

This is why I predominantly write in the names of dead men and women I wish could legislate and execute. There are few living people with a chance to win elections that I want to see in office.

My perennial extra credit opportunity is for students to identify my dream team presidential ticket (the options are limited to past presidents) and explain why they would be my choice. I doubt anyone will ever get it right.

 

[buroak]

When America was totally free market capitalism Heroin was a registered brand name and marketed as the Sedative for Coughs and used in Baby Soothing Syrup (for which it no doubt was effective).

Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, and there was no Environmental Protection Agency or Clean Water Act yet.

Americans want to keep every constitutional right they imagine they have as individuals but the there ought to be a law against the other guy from fighting roosters or whatever, he doesn’t do himself.

I can buy a bump stock for my AR-15 again. Yippee!

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I think I’m going to lay up about a hundred pounds of Bouy Gold, for around a thousand dollars.

Or maybe make it two hundred.

Congress can’t effectively regulate tobacco now.

But they can still tax it, and I can see it coming.

But we have never been anything like a free market, much less a totally free market.

 

[buroak]

Chevron deference was the practice of courts deferring to administrative agencies' interpretation of statutes. So the way to answer the question would seem to be to ask: which tobacco regulations depend on contentious interpretation of statutes; and, of those, which would courts be most likely to hold that tobacco regulation falls outside the scope of the law?

It seems that a lot of tobacco control is pretty popular, and that legislatures would be glad to write statutes that empower agencies to implement sweeping rules.

I will play the optimist, an unusual role for me. The FDA deeming regulation of 2016 affected far more than pipe tobacco. It is just possible that the cigar lobby, big tobacco, and whoever makes all those candy flavored cigars sold in garish 4-packs will all push in the same direction against the FDA.

On the other hand, big tobacco has an incentive to let the regulations crush the smaller flavored cigar and “little cigar” makers who have been a nuisance to them since the tobacco settlement nearly 30 years ago.

 

[Briar Lee]

When America was totally free market capitalism Heroin was a registered brand name and marketed as the Sedative for Coughs and used in Baby Soothing Syrup (for which it no doubt was effective).

Neil Armstrong walked on the moon, and there was no Environmental Protection Agency or Clean Water Act yet.

Americans want to keep every constitutional right they imagine they have as individuals but the there ought to be a law against the other guy from fighting roosters or whatever, he doesn’t do himself.

I can buy a bump stock for my AR-15 again. Yippee!

https://www.firequest.com/AB227.html[/URL [/URL

http://

But we have never been anything like a free market, much less a totally free market.

Until the Progressive era under Teddy Roosevelt there was no income tax and no government bureaucracy except for paying pensions to Civil War veterans and their spouses (which didn’t wind up fully until very modern times when the last soldier’s widow died).

Upton Sinclair took dead aim at America’s heart and hit them in the stomach.

The Jungle - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle

The furor caused the Pure Food and Drug Act,

Under the free market only system people died from unpasteurized milk, tainted meat, but today thanks to regulations about the only cases of food poisoning come from the potato salad at the big church picnic and occasionally from imported cilantro, but hillbillies never eat cilantro on purpose so that doesn’t count.

The new decision will paralyze rule making. Not a bad thing in of itself, but from here until that decision is reversed in a decade or two or five, instead of rule making Congress will use their taxation powers.

Don’t worry, they won’t tax me or thee—

They’ll tax that guy behind the tree.

 

[sablebrush52]

http://

Until the Progressive era under Teddy Roosevelt there was no income tax and no government bureaucracy except for paying pensions to Civil War veterans and their spouses (which didn’t wind up fully until very modern times when the last soldier’s widow died).

Upton Sinclair took dead aim at America’s heart and hit them in the stomach.

The Jungle - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle

The furor caused the Pure Food and Drug Act,

Under the free market only system people died from unpasteurized milk, tainted meat, but today thanks to regulations about the only cases of food poisoning come from the potato salad at the big church picnic and occasionally from imported cilantro, but hillbillies never eat cilantro on purpose so that doesn’t count.

The new decision will paralyze rule making. Not a bad thing in of itself, but from here until that decision is reversed in a decade or two or five, instead of rule making Congress will use their taxation powers.

Don’t worry, they won’t tax me or thee—

They’ll tax that guy behind the tree.

The decision represents something of a power grab by the judiciary. It effectively leaves the final decision in the hands of a judge, who more than likely is not expert in the details of the issue at hand. It's partly the result of poorly written statutes. Fair enough. But it will also hinder response to changing circumstances involving people expert in the issues created by those changes.

 

[buroak]

http://

Until the Progressive era under Teddy Roosevelt there was no income tax and no government bureaucracy except for paying pensions to Civil War veterans and their spouses (which didn’t wind up fully until very modern times when the last soldier’s widow died).

Upton Sinclair took dead aim at America’s heart and hit them in the stomach.

The Jungle - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle

The furor caused the Pure Food and Drug Act,

Under the free market only system people died from unpasteurized milk, tainted meat, but today thanks to regulations about the only cases of food poisoning come from the potato salad at the big church picnic and occasionally from imported cilantro, but hillbillies never eat cilantro on purpose so that doesn’t count.

The new decision will paralyze rule making. Not a bad thing in of itself, but from here until that decision is reversed in a decade or two or five, instead of rule making Congress will use their taxation powers.

Don’t worry, they won’t tax me or thee—

They’ll tax that guy behind the tree.

We seem to be defining free markets differently. To my thinking, an income tax is compatible with a free market, while even a small government and tiny bureaucracy can still greatly impede a free market. Henry Clay’s American System and the 1890 McKinley Tariff are striking examples of how distorted markets were even before the Progressive Era.

I am not opposed to free markets. They could do good things here. We simply have never had them, and we are running the other direction.

 

[buroak]

The decision represents something of a power grab by the judiciary. It effectively leaves the final decision in the hands of a judge, who more than likely is not expert in the details of the issue at hand. It's partly the result of poorly written statutes. Fair enough. But it will also hinder response to changing circumstances involving people expert in the issues created by those changes.

The restraint of experts can be good (Le Corbusier’s urban planning springs to mind), but especially in environmental regulation scientific expertise is needed to keep protections up to date with new developments. Fracking is one recent example. Domestic lithium mining and processing are in our future, and I would like experts to steer us away from the kinds of environmental harm the lithium business is causing in China.

 

[sablebrush52]

We seem to be defining free markets differently. To my thinking, an income tax is compatible with a free market, while even a small government and tiny bureaucracy can still greatly impede a free market. Henry Clay’s American System and the 1890 McKinley Tariff are striking examples of how distorted markets were even before the Progressive Era.

I am not opposed to free markets. They could do good things here. We simply have never had them, and we are running the other direction.

http://

Until the Progressive era under Teddy Roosevelt there was no income tax and no government bureaucracy except for paying pensions to Civil War veterans and their spouses (which didn’t wind up fully until very modern times when the last soldier’s widow died).

Upton Sinclair took dead aim at America’s heart and hit them in the stomach.

The Jungle - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle

The furor caused the Pure Food and Drug Act,

Under the free market only system people died from unpasteurized milk, tainted meat, but today thanks to regulations about the only cases of food poisoning come from the potato salad at the big church picnic and occasionally from imported cilantro, but hillbillies never eat cilantro on purpose so that doesn’t count.

The new decision will paralyze rule making. Not a bad thing in of itself, but from here until that decision is reversed in a decade or two or five, instead of rule making Congress will use their taxation powers.

Don’t worry, they won’t tax me or thee—

They’ll tax that guy behind the tree.

There has NEVER been a "free" market. There will NEVER be a "free" market. At least, not one involving Homo Sapiens. The free market is a myth perpetuated by manipulative charlatans and believed by credulous idiots. All markets are subject to manipulation, whether from government, businesses, lobbyists, trade groups, labor, political nutjobs, religious nutjobs or take your pick. They don't, haven't and never will exist if people are involved in it.

Next.

 

[sablebrush52]

The restraint of experts can be good (Le Corbusier’s urban planning springs to mind), but especially in environmental regulation scientific expertise is needed to keep protections up to date with new developments. Fracking is one recent example. Domestic lithium mining and processing are in our future, and I would like experts to steer us away from the kinds of environmental harm the lithium business is causing in China.

Sure, though Le Corbusier serves as a cautionary tale, his expertise compromised by his longing for power to realize his fancies.

The other, perhaps unintended, effect will be to make the judiciary a far bigger whorehouse than it currently is.

How, say you? By encouraging the still somewhat nascent practice of "judge shopping". This is still in its early stages, but the Chevron decision should give this practice a huge shot in the arm.

What is "judge shopping" you might ask? The practice of finding a judge who's track record shows that he will be very receptive to your side of the dispute, or, better, whose track record shows a level of ideological purity that guarantees you a win, regardless of the legal merits of your case. And lawyers are making it more and more of a practice to seek out and get a friendly judge. And that shopping can involve more than a favorable ruling.

As we've seen in SCOTUS, gifts are happily accepted, Canons be damned.

So if you like corruption, you like this decision.

 

[buroak]

There has NEVER been a "free" market. There will NEVER be a "free" market. At least, not one involving Homo Sapiens. The free market is a myth perpetuated by manipulative charlatans and believed by credulous idiots. All markets are subject to manipulation, whether from government, businesses, lobbyists, trade groups, labor, political nutjobs, religious nutjobs or take your pick. They don't, haven't and never will exist if people are involved in it.

Next.

That’s fair. When I think of at least freer markets, I think mostly of the government not picking favorites and “national champions.” That, I would like. Even (maybe especially) as someone from corn country, I hate the ethanol mandate and other manipulations in our agricultural policy.

To your point, there are always big guys (public and private) who can tip the scales of market exchanges in their favor. I hired an out of state company for a job. They dragged their feet for months. A lawyer friend said suing to get the work done or the contract cancelled was not at all cost-effective and could take years. He recommended I file complaints with the attorneys general of my state and the company’s state. Pressure from those government offices spurred that company to get the work done quickly, even though they had to subcontract the work at much greater expense to themselves. Sometimes the very visible hand of the government is exactly what is needed. Courts and voluntary market exchanges are not always efficient, at least not for all parties.

 

[bent1]

There has NEVER been a "free" market. There will NEVER be a "free" market. At least, not one involving Homo Sapiens. The free market is a myth perpetuated by manipulative charlatans and believed by credulous idiots. All markets are subject to manipulation, whether from government, businesses, lobbyists, trade groups, labor, political nutjobs, religious nutjobs or take your pick. They don't, haven't and never will exist if people are involved in it.

Next.

Which brings us right back to Chevron. There numerous examples of industry or special interest groups placing there people in influential government positions to craft or sway regulation. There needs to be competing powers & a mechanism to resolve the valid points of each party. What that is, I don’t know.

 

[buroak]

Sure, though Le Corbusier serves as a cautionary tale, his expertise compromised by his longing for power to realize his fancies.

The other, perhaps unintended, effect will be to make the judiciary a far bigger whorehouse than it currently is.

How, say you? By encouraging the still somewhat nascent practice of "judge shopping". This is still in its early stages, but the Chevron decision should give this practice a huge shot in the arm.

What is "judge shopping" you might ask? The practice of finding a judge who's track record shows that he will be very receptive to your side of the dispute, or, better, whose track record shows a level of ideological purity that guarantees you a win, regardless of the legal merits of your case. And lawyers are making it more and more of a practice to seek out and get a friendly judge. And that shopping can involve more than a favorable ruling.

As we've seen in SCOTUS, gifts are happily accepted, Canons be damned.

So if you like corruption, you like this decision.

Oh, yes, it is a thing: https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...ause-transferring-cases-elsewhere-2024-06-17/

 

[sablebrush52]

Which brings us right back to Chevron. There numerous examples of industry or special interest groups placing there people in influential government positions to craft or sway regulation. There needs to be competing powers & a mechanism to resolve the valid points of each party. What that is, I don’t know.

Absolutely true. And we also have political groups, often aligned with business and other interests, promoting Judges to the bench. There is no truly uncorrupted branch of government.

 

[jpberg]

Damn, we’re witnessing the taking the forum sides live and in color.

 

[condorlover1]

Soon you will be able to rush out a buy a bottle of H H Warners 'Safe' Cure....

Warner's Safe Cure Blog

Celebrating the Patent Medicine Empire of H.H. Warner

warnerssafeblog.wordpress.com

 

[AJL67]

Soon you will be able to rush out a buy a bottle of H H Warners 'Safe' Cure....

Warner's Safe Cure Blog

Celebrating the Patent Medicine Empire of H.H. Warner

warnerssafeblog.wordpress.com

Well you can still buy... this was THE painkiller in the late 1800s .. now i guess they will prescribe it for diarrhea lol

Laudanum

Laudanum is a tincture of opium containing approximately 10% powdered opium by weight. Laudanum is prepared by dissolving extracts from the opium poppy in alcohol. Reddish-brown in color and extremely bitter, laudanum contains several opium alkaloids, including morphine and codeine.

 

[condorlover1]

@AJL67 : Used to be available over the counter in the U.K under the name Dr. Collis Brownes Mixture - one of my favorite cures for a hangover, now you have to make a special order or if you can find it you have to sign the Poisons Register J Collis Browne's Mixture | Pharmacy Requirements - https://www.pharmacyrequirements.co.uk/j-collis-browne-s-mixture