I think Jud nailed it. The unique flavor comes primarily from the wood that is used to smoke the leaf. I don't care what kind of leaf you have, once you smoke the hell out of if for several months the only thing you are going to taste is the black creosote laden leaf.
Why Is Syrian different from Cyprian Latakia And Could They Change It?
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It's hard to imagine that Cyprus has forests of trees that grow no where else. Any cite for that assertion?
And, yes, the smoke makes a lot of difference, but not more so than the leaf itself, which in turn is dependent on several factors: earth, wind and water being among them. The fire comes later!
And, yes, the smoke makes a lot of difference, but not more so than the leaf itself, which in turn is dependent on several factors: earth, wind and water being among them. The fire comes later!
Location is critical, it cannot just be transplanted. Camel tried to grow Oriental in the US in the 50s I think....they wound up with a bumper crop of burley. The flavors of the Oriental leaf is a compunding of the harsh environmental conditions, with soil conditions, much like (duh) briar, chili peppers or those secret catches of superior home grown tomatoes. Even if you replace the Smyrna with Shek el Bint it won't be the same. A great many of the "different" Orientals are just Smyrna grown in different locals.
What is true for the leaf is true for the wood, it won't be the same. If you take mesquite out of its home in the southwest, it won't be the same taste and smell, and the same goes for Syrian oak. By the way does anyone know what wood Cyprian is smoked over?
To try to replicate Syrian is a fools errand. To try to come up with something that is different or even superior to Cyprian.....now there is a project.
What is true for the leaf is true for the wood, it won't be the same. If you take mesquite out of its home in the southwest, it won't be the same taste and smell, and the same goes for Syrian oak. By the way does anyone know what wood Cyprian is smoked over?
To try to replicate Syrian is a fools errand. To try to come up with something that is different or even superior to Cyprian.....now there is a project.
You guys are getting caught up in the "mystic" of Latakia. Like I said before, smoke the hell out of a tobacco leaf so that charred creosote remains and it doesn't matter what type of leaf you had because you will only be tasting the burnt leaf/ particulate matter from the fuel. It is the wood that is imparting the flavor.
As for the wood used in Cyprus, it is:
Pistacia lentiscus (aka Mastic) : 90%
Myrtle: 4%
Stone Pine: 4%
Cypress Tree: 1%
All approximate.
As for the wood used in Cyprus, it is:
Pistacia lentiscus (aka Mastic) : 90%
Myrtle: 4%
Stone Pine: 4%
Cypress Tree: 1%
All approximate.
No mystery to it. Some palates prefer Syrian. Syrian tastes differently than Cypriot. And the trick is to enhance or slightly alter not kill the flavor of the tobacco entirely. It that were the aim, just shred up and smoke anything, old shoe leather might substitute.
Piñon wood would be worth trying, IMO. The aroma of that Southwestern wood smoke is intoxicating and it already sort of hints at the incense side of latakia already.
Wait a second, let's think about this. Who said producers of Cyprian lat, are trying to, or want to imitate the Syrian variety? I see nothing wrong with lat from Cyprus, and honestly I think the droves of people that buy blends that contain said lat show the numbers. Let's not forget there are still plenty of blends readily available that have the Syrian variety in them. How come they're not outselling the other blends that don't use it?
I hear lots of talk about how great it is, and I've had a few blends that contain Syrian. The fact is, at least for me, there are blends I smoke with Cyprian lat that I enjoy much more.
I hear lots of talk about how great it is, and I've had a few blends that contain Syrian. The fact is, at least for me, there are blends I smoke with Cyprian lat that I enjoy much more.
I think people realize there is only enough Syrian latakia left in warehouses to last a few more years and whenever a tobacco becomes hard to get pipe smokers seem to go a little overboard about it....penzance I'm looking at you. Syrian latakia is a dead tobacco....it's not going to come back; what we have stored is all there is/will be. In a couple years some people will be glued to their computers looking for the last tins of 3 Oaks Syrian and be willing to pay extra just to get it.
On Perique.
There are more Perique producers in St. James Parish, Louisiana than La Poche. Reportedly the other manufacturer produce an inferior type of Perique because they are not as meticulous about the processing (they don't strip the stems out as completely as La Poche and they don't age it as long).
True Perique is grown in St. James Parish in Louisiana. La Poche buys the entire crops from a number of growers. However, in a good year not enough of the tobacco is grown to fill the demand for Perique. According to Mark Ryan, who is the owner of the La Poche Perique factory, there has been little true perique to hit the market since the 1950s. Pretty much all the Perique we smoke these days are blends made with tobacco they import from Kentucky. There are some pure Perique pipe tobaccos on the market though. Just not everything. (picture of Mark Ryan giving the tour)
Tobacco waiting to be bundled for processing.
There are more Perique producers in St. James Parish, Louisiana than La Poche. Reportedly the other manufacturer produce an inferior type of Perique because they are not as meticulous about the processing (they don't strip the stems out as completely as La Poche and they don't age it as long).
True Perique is grown in St. James Parish in Louisiana. La Poche buys the entire crops from a number of growers. However, in a good year not enough of the tobacco is grown to fill the demand for Perique. According to Mark Ryan, who is the owner of the La Poche Perique factory, there has been little true perique to hit the market since the 1950s. Pretty much all the Perique we smoke these days are blends made with tobacco they import from Kentucky. There are some pure Perique pipe tobaccos on the market though. Just not everything. (picture of Mark Ryan giving the tour)
Tobacco waiting to be bundled for processing.
@Cosmic, I would be careful using Pinion Pine, it is a hot burning wood and it does have a far amount of pitch in it. Yes it does have a pleasing aroma. I have used it to get Cedar and rock oak started. I think Jesse can fill in more details. I have had small Pinion fires in the stove and drove me out.
Cool, That's me in the green shirt, straw hat in front of Mark's face in the middle photograph.
But, as Mark said, those other periques are used for the cigarette industry, unless of course my ears were blocked or something. Mark all but said that his perique was the only one used in pipe tobacco.
But, as I heard him, the Kentucky was used to blend with the perique.
Maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly. I was standing right there listening to the same speech. Maybe we should get Mark to post clarification. I won't gamble on my own memory. I could be wrong. But, I asked him later which pipe tobacco companies used the other perique, and he just smiled and said they all use his. But, like I said, maybe I'm wrong. Personally, I'd like to know for sure, if I am wrong. I am no expert, just a guy who went to hear him talk.
But, as Mark said, those other periques are used for the cigarette industry, unless of course my ears were blocked or something. Mark all but said that his perique was the only one used in pipe tobacco.
But, as I heard him, the Kentucky was used to blend with the perique.
Maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly. I was standing right there listening to the same speech. Maybe we should get Mark to post clarification. I won't gamble on my own memory. I could be wrong. But, I asked him later which pipe tobacco companies used the other perique, and he just smiled and said they all use his. But, like I said, maybe I'm wrong. Personally, I'd like to know for sure, if I am wrong. I am no expert, just a guy who went to hear him talk.
I thought that part of his talk where he talked about misinformed rumors was the misconception that perique came from other places. Anyways... like I said, I could be wrong. I was not aware of the rumors at the time. I may be misunderstanding what the misconception was he was talking about, as I went there with no knowledge of perique at all, except that it was from LA and fermented under pressure. Other than that i was totally a blank slate.
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