Whole Leaf Beginner

[andrew l]

Title edited. Please see Rule 9. -jpm

I'll soon be starting with my first batch of cured whole leaf. Think I'm pretty much on board with cutting, casing process and recipes, but a few questions remain.

• is it better to case all you have at once or does whole leaf store better uncased?
• best storage for whole leaf: air tight or not? Have read that polyethylene produce storage bags are good here (?)
• when storing cased / cut tobacco should it be fully dry?

Thanks to all.

 

[woodsroad]

Case only what you plan to use. Cased, moist tobacco will mold without an antifungal added. I use Calcium Proprionate. I’ll dig up the application rate info if you’d like.

I store untreated whole leaf in Mylar bags. Polyethylene bags are not moisture barriers and also leach plasticizers.

 

[mortonbriar]

I just avoid casing, for the sake of less drama with mold. Smoking dry is very nice once adapted to it.

 

[mso489]

There are several experienced growers on Forums, and I'm not one of them, but I am curious what variety of tobacco you are growing.

 

[woodsroad]

This is the label from the Calcium Propionate spray that I made up for dosing whole leaf or other untreated tobacco to protect from fungal growth.

It is in a Zep spray bottle from Home Depot. I measured the output of the spray, then adjusted the solution concentration to give the correct application rate 1 spray pump for 2oz of tobacco.

Calcium Propionate (Mycoban)
Antifungal
84gr/1L H20
Use 1 spray (3.5ml) per 2oz of tobacco to achieve .5% application rate

Calcium Propionate on Amazon

Zep spray bottle on Amazon ($$$)

Zep Spray Bottle at Home Depot (1/3 the cost of Amazon)

 

[Ocam]

It doesn't have to be dry. It will be fine as long as it is in low case (dry feeling but doesn't crumble when handled).

If you apply a casing, then dry to low case, it should be fine. But I guess it makes more sense to just case what you are going to use.

 

[Ahi Ka]

On the off chance you have purchased leaf from WLT, you can (I haven’t) store the leaf in the bags they come in, just make sure you have a clean cut to open them and fold over 3 times before holding closed with some pegs. I’ve used a mix of jars/vacuum sealed Mylar for low case storage, and vacuum sealed Mylar for high case storage.

 

[andrew l]

This is the label from the Calcium Propionate spray that I made up for dosing whole leaf or other untreated tobacco to protect from fungal growth.

It is in a Zep spray bottle from Home Depot. I measured the output of the spray, then adjusted the solution concentration to give the correct application rate 1 spray pump for 2oz of tobacco.

Calcium Propionate (Mycoban)
Antifungal
84gr/1L H20
Use 1 spray (3.5ml) per 2oz of tobacco to achieve .5% application rate

Calcium Propionate on Amazon

Zep spray bottle on Amazon ($$$)

Zep Spray Bottle at Home Depot (1/3 the cost of Amazon)

Thanks Woodsroad -- the Calcium Propionate needs to be applied separately from the casing mixture (vs. being in the mix)? There's some opinion that the sugar in a casing mix is a natural antifungal.

I'm not looking to add any flavor here (working with deep fired Virginia & Latakia).

 

[andrew l]

It doesn't have to be dry. It will be fine as long as it is in low case (dry feeling but doesn't crumble when handled).

If you apply a casing, then dry to low case, it should be fine. But I guess it makes more sense to just case what you are going to use.

From the responses so far it would seem that casing doesn't particularly add/subtract to the aging process.

 

[Ahi Ka]

From the responses so far it would seem that casing doesn't particularly add/subtract to the aging process.

Calling @rajangan to the rescue

 

[andrew l]

There are several experienced growers on Forums, and I'm not one of them, but I am curious what variety of tobacco you are growing.

Purchased from Total Leaf:

Thanks Woodsroad -- the Calcium Propionate needs to be applied separately from the casing mixture (vs. being in the mix)? There's some opinion that the sugar in a casing mix is a natural antifungal.

I'm not looking to add any flavor here (working with deep fired Virginia & Latakia).

correction: Tennessee / Kentucky Dark Fire Cured LO Solid Leaf (not Virginia). There is some Virginia flue cured in the order though.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Ok, from memory the total leaf bags are not as thick as the WLT ones. The Latakia I got from total leaf them I just put directly into jars, and after 18months there is no issues. I found it more oily than wet. The Dark fired, I removed the stems and dried down before storage. I have subsequently vacuumed sealed the majority of this as I don’t see myself using it for a while.

their organic lemon (from memory) was the only one I’ve had issues with mould with. But I think I didn’t dry it enough before storage and I think the jar seal may have compromised.

 

[rajangan]

Short answer... Uhh, adding a preservative wouldn't likely affect aging. Without offering sources, because it's not without controversy, I can say that aging usually seen as natural enzymatic processes that don't require bacteria, yeast or fungi. But, there are obviously tobaccos that have been influenced at least partly by microorganisms: perique-big time, cigar filler-probably at least some influence.

Theoretically, preservatives could help you to safely maintain the tobacco at a higher moisture level, and that would speed up aging for those who struggle finding the sweet spot.

I've lost plenty of tobacco to mold, and conversely also stored tobacco that was too dry to age. Oh well. I still enjoy my tobacco and my life, and am getting better at storing. My best way is to make plug and vacuum seal it.

I wouldn't use it. I think they share/sell that casing because people expect it for whatever reason.

 

[andrew l]

So I don't really have to do anything other than cutting with my WLT order? Doubt that I would store any more than 18 months; semi-dry sealed in an amber jar would be good?

Is there a risk to casing good whole leaf -- would be my first effort & I wouldn't want to mess up the dark fired especially.

Thanks again.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Some people don’t even remove the stems as they prefer to store the leaf whole - my situation is different as I can no longer import whole leaf, so I did one big order and removed as many mould risk factors as possible/purchased enough condiment tobaccos to blend with homegrown for the the next 5 decades.

are you casing the leaf with flavours or only with preservatives?

 

[andrew l]

My first time & not really interested in adding any flavor, just want the leaf to be in top form for storage.

 

[rajangan]

So I don't really have to do anything other than cutting with my WLT order? Doubt that I would store any more than 18 months; semi-dry sealed in an amber jar would be good?

Is there a risk to casing good whole leaf -- would be my first effort & I wouldn't want to mess up the dark fired especially.

Thanks again.

I just keep it whole, and maybe cut 50g at a time.

The tobacco was stored and aged without casing up to this point. There's no reason to deviate from it that I can see, except maybe if you lived in an excessively humid place.

 

[logs]

So I don't really have to do anything other than cutting with my WLT order? Doubt that I would store any more than 18 months; semi-dry sealed in an amber jar would be good?

Is there a risk to casing good whole leaf -- would be my first effort & I wouldn't want to mess up the dark fired especially.

Thanks again.

What kind of casing did you have in mind for the dark fired? My understanding is latakia, dark fired, and perique are to be used uncased. (At least that's how I've done it).

But with any leaf you need to decide whether you're ultimately going to run it through a shredder. If so, save the casing until after you shred otherwise you're more likely to gum up your shredder.

I have plenty of leaf that I've shredded and then stored in mason jars for later casing and blending. For me, I'd rather get in a groove and batch process a lot of leaf and then clean up, since it's generally a messy process.

 

[woodsroad]

What kind of casing did you have in mind for the dark fired? My understanding is latakia, dark fired, and perique are to be used uncased. (At least that's how I've done it).

But with any leaf you need to decide whether you're ultimately going to run it through a shredder. If so, save the casing until after you shred otherwise you're more likely to gum up your shredder.

I have plenty of leaf that I've shredded and then stored in mason jars for later casing and blending. For me, I'd rather get in a groove and batch process a lot of leaf and then clean up, since it's generally a messy process.

Even in the best scenario, shredding Latakia and KDF will gum up the shredder. I bought quite a bit of KDF from a farmer in Kentucky a few years back, right out of the barn, and that stuff was sticky! But it was also dry enough that I've had no mold problems.

 

[logs]

Even in the best scenario, shredding Latakia and KDF will gum up the shredder. I bought quite a bit of KDF from a farmer in Kentucky a few years back, right out of the barn, and that stuff was sticky! But it was also dry enough that I've had no mold problems.

You're not kidding! Latakia, perique, and dark fired are quite a pain to turn to ribbon.

I'm curious how you deal with mold? I've occasionally bought leaf that had minor mold on the stems. I was told to just wipe it off with a sponge and vinegar and process the leaf as normal. Seemed to work well. Ever do this?