Who is the Charatan Historian on the Forum?

[pappymac]

Here's the question. What year did they stop using Charatan's Make on the pipes. I'm looking at two pipes stamped Charatan's Make - a 4651X Special and a 149DC and trying to figure out the time period they were made in. I'm waiting to hear back from the seller to find out what stampings are on the stem.
I've read the Charatan's articles on pipedia and pipephil, but I can't seem to find the answer. Am I missing something?

 

[carolinachurchwarden]

I believe that'd be the illustrious Kenbarnes. He usually pops in from time to time and addresses any Charatan questions or threads. The Charatan line can be a little confusing to wade through. I found lots of info over at reborn pipes, some you already have read through at pipedia, but there are a few other potentially helpful links in this article:
https://rebornpipes.com/tag/charatans-make-pipes/

 

[pappymac]

Thanks. I've sent a PM to Ken Barnes.

 

[dmcmtk]

You also read here?
https://pipedia.org/wiki/Dating_of_Charatans

 

[pappymac]

Yes sir, read that also.

 

[sablebrush52]

Unfortunately, there are no good articles on Charatan. This surprises the hell out of me. Even Fabio Ferrara's article is pretty lacking in detail. It's useful only in a general way. Ken may be your best bet.

 

[pappymac]

The antique store said they just found a third Charatan's Make pipe. It's a 2615X. I'm waiting for them to send me photos.

The stamping on the stem is the CP but they don't see an L. Which basically means nothing according to what I read.

 

[kenbarnes]

Hello pappymac.

I don't seem to have received a PM from you, but I know that the 4651X (The Banker shape) was first catalogued with the X for a saddle mouthpiece - I think this was in 1969-1970. I think that later on it became a 4651DC (in the 1975 catalogue). The Small Chubby Pot shape 149 was a simple saddle (X) in the 1970 catalogue and in the 1974 catalogue it appeared with a DC mouthpiece.

The 2615 relates to the group 2 shape no. 615 - The Shannon which is a slightly forward canted Dublin. This appears in the 1970 catalogue with a taper mouthpiece and with a DC in the 1974 catalogue. I have never seen the Shannon shape with a simple saddle fitted and stamped with an X. This could have been from the inception of the shape when they were 'playing with' the best mouthpiece to fit to this shape.

Whilst looking at the 1974 catalogue, I now realise that out of the thirty six catalogued shapes that Charatan made at this time (in various sizes), 35 are fitted with a DC mouthpiece!!! One is not.. which one? The Prince.

The 'L' stamp was stamped on pipes going to the USA from the factory. It served as a check for Herman Lane whether pipes that turned up for repair in New York were bought in the U.S. or in London (where they were cheaper).

 

[ssjones]

@Ken - do you know when the "Charatan's Make" stamp was discontinued?

 

[kenbarnes]

I do not think that I have seen a Charatan without 'Charatan's make' stamped on it. If they did do away with this, it was most likely after 1980. I am not sure about this.

 

[pappymac]

I've been trying to upload a photo of the three Charatan's the seller sent me but imgur isn't cooperating this morning.

 

[pappymac]

I don't know where I got the impression that they stopped using "Charatan's Make" at some point. I did see on pipephil.eu three pipes which were not stamped that way. I know one was made in France so I assumed that was the reason it didn't have the same stamp. The others were the Coronation and Crown Achievement.

 

[sablebrush52]

Imgur is having issues this morning. They must have done some kind of site upgrade that went pear shaped. Seems to be coming the standard.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Whoa! The site is quite different from when I was last there. Here's my Sea Rock when it was brand new.

 

[pappymac]

I really didn't get started collecting estate pipes until about 7 years ago and at first I was only finding drugstore pipes like Kaywoodies and Dr. Grabows. As I started finding higher end pipes, I started trying to learn all I could about each brand I found. I enjoy doing the research and learning as much as I do restoring and smoking the pipes.

 

[kenbarnes]

This Russian article on Charatan is the most comprehensive I know of.
http://brbpipe.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/T-shop_1-2011-12_56-69_3.pdf

 

[pappymac]

I’ll look at at later. My phone doesn’t translate Russian

 

[seldom]

Kenbarnes, since you are on this thread and mentioned the 149 pot I'm jumping in with a question. I acquired an estate 149X that strangely has a DC mouthpiece. All I can imagine is that the pipe is mismatched. Do you know what era this pipe comes from?

 

[pappymac]

Here's a photo of the Charatan's Makes in the wild. I'll check back with the store in a couple of weeks and see if they are still available.

If anyone wants the name and phone number of the store, let send me a pm.

 

[kenbarnes]

Hi Seldom, this 149x looks like it may have been from the early 1960s and it has received a replacement mouthpiece after 1965 and the customer was asked whether he would like a DC mouthpiece fitted (Charatan's newly designed saddle mouthpiece at the time) The repair, frazing the mouthpiece to the shank, has been carefully done so as not to remove any of the stamp markings on the shank. Notice that in those days Reuben Charatan stamped the shape number very close to the fit. Years later this was not stamped so closely to the join. In the second photo you can see that the repairer (at the factory) could not help removing part of the 'e' and some of the 'D' in order to get the mouthpiece to fit flush.