I like Ennerdale so I’ll try some Northwoods and see how it is.
Which Are the Most Incenselike Blends? ⚗️⛪🪔🥢💭
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Westminster gives me incense vibes, though I don't know if I can explain my reasoning.
That's the thing... You don't have to explain.
Thanks for explaining, Pypke.
I've seen some versions of Church incense for sale that use myrrh but not frankincense.
Three Kings seems to be one of the top producers and sellers of Church incense.
Sure. I like that you are familiar with this topic!
OK, I could just be misremembering smells of R.C. incense based on the post that I cited.
Your earlier statement is relevant here:
"...being evocative of church incense is not the same as being 'like' church incense."
It helps me think about the issue better.
Church incense is basically resins, especially frankincense and myrrh, with maybe secondary additives. You can read the ingredients on Three Kings' blends here:
Incense mixtures Archieven - Rene Schonefeld
Discover all incense mixtures. Three Kings’ incense is used in many religious and spiritual ceremonies around the world. Charcoal tabs are needed to burn it.
reneschonefeld.com
I read that R.C. customs or rubrics prescribe certain incenses for certain holidays.
Mastic wood produces resins that can serve as incense substances. But I don't know how much of those resins Mastic wood has when the wood is burned to process Latakia.
Mrs. Pickles' research article shows that Mastic wood chemicals like turpentines are left on the Latakia leaf and then released again when one burns the Latakia. But how much of those wood chemicals match Mastic resin I don't know.
Additionally, the process of casing and topping pipe blends can include casing or topping the blends with ingredients that are often added in incenses.
Of course, tobacco leaf itself is not a tree or shrub resin like incense basically relies on. So at most one is only going to get chemicals or senses that are common to both certain pipe blends and incense. That's Okay too. For purposes of my question, I mean to include also sense perceptions, and not just whether a blend has literal incense resin like Sintren cigarettes do.
I found your story about how people came to think Fr. Dempsey as a blend was incenselike fun. I don't know whether the original blender at Kramer's in California at all was thinking of Church incense when he designed the blend.
For all I know, it could simply be that the combination of people calling the blend incenselike plus the name Fr. Dempsey unwittingly makes people like myself interpret it as maybe faintly incenselike.
Some people could be more attuned to the smell of incense than others. If I didn't know that Sintren had Styrax and never heard anyone call it incense scented, I think that I wouldn't have picked up on its incense scent.
If you just smoke pure incense in big amounts, Yes it would be bad.
With Sintren, the Styrax is low enough in amount that it doesn't make your body repulsed by it.
I agree that there is a lot of ambiguity about the review statement that a blend is like incense. For instance, someone could be thinking of Hindu style incense sticks when they call a blend incenselike but never qualify the statement.
Still, it would be interesting to find the top 5-10 blends that pipe smokers found to be the most incenselike if the pipers tried all the potential reportedly "incenselike" blends.
Mclelland's Three Oaks Syrian and Magnum Opus are two names that especially stick out from reviews that I previously read. But in this thread people are giving some other names like Penzance.
Thank you for the interesting discussion. It's a topic I like, even if it's a little like an Easter Egg hunt.
Thanks for a thoughtful answer, Cosmic. Would you (or another reader) like me to send you one tiny piece of frankincense and another of myrrh? You need to put it on a burning charcoal or a burning-hot plate. EO, Catholic, some Episcopalian and some Lutheran churches use resin-based incense, and it can be pretty cheap.
Outside of smelling incense itself, I'm not sure what to compare its smell to. Maybe like a distant cousin of Chaps cologne, pure Maple syrup, pine wood smoke (myrrh), evergreen tree (myrrh), lemony smoke (frankincense), or honey, but most of those are not close enough to call them insencelike or resinous.
It seems like a lot of cigars are kept in cedar humidors, and I can see that as part of the flavor especially for some Cuban-style non-Cuban and Cuban cigars. I got a cedar "Cuban Crafters" brand humidor from a Tampa company by that name.
Occasionally there are situations where people literally don't taste or smell the same thing. One example that comes to mind is cilantro, where some people find it very bitter and bad. For me, cilantro taste is like a normal green herb like parsley, oregano, basil, sage. In the pipe world, the white bar acrid sharp soap smell that I get from the "floral" blends Ennerdale and Northwoods is the best example I can think of. I'm sure that the two pipers whom I shared my batches with didn't get that note because they smoked it in front of me, I smelled that soap note, and they said that they didn't smell it at all. We agreed that it was like how some people taste cilantro in different ways.
I am familiar with the taste of Riesling because my Dad likes it. It's bitter and so is grapefruit, but grapefruit has a sharper, more quinine-like bitterness.
In the guitar analogy that you gave, the music is specifically including G, B, and D notes. It's a good example, because Latakia for me is a very "loud" variety.
Theoretically if you could isolate only the chemicals that are left over from Mastic-resin in Latakia, along with other chemicals in the main incense resins, you would have a literal incenselike smell from them. But in real life, the ratio of those chemical amounts to non-resin Latakia smells could be so small that it might not be very accurate to describe many or any Latakia leaf as incenselike. Alternately, you could have someone who smelled a more raw, unprocessed version of Latakia 100 times and then smelled a heavily Mastic-treated Latakia and finds this new batch to be a lot like incense resin for his palatte.
Fightnhampster,
My desire to try new blends has overpowered my aversion to Latakia that comes from my sensitive palette. At this point in my pipe journey, if the Latakia is faint enough, it is not an issue for me. Out of the blends in the OP, I remember that Margate's and My Mixture 965's Latakias were light enough that they were not an issue for me and I liked both blends a lot. There is a subset of Latakia blends like that where the Latakia comes across as marginal.
A friend gifted me a box of about 7 blends including Northwoods and the blend had the most enticing tin note in the box. It was so rich and flowery that I was excited to try it.
The producer is Boswell and the genius for frankincense is Boswellia. What a fun coincidence. When I asked my friends who smoked it in front of me what notes they got, they said Chocolatey and Floral. I went over and smelled one of their pipes with their permission because the room note from it was so alluring and curious for me despite the soap part. Nota Bene: At least one piper online found it like plastic and rubber in smell, which I chalk up to the chemical that my nose took as soaplike.
Cosmic Folklore and @Mrs. Pickles ,
Last year I couldn't really recognize those substances by name either. I wanted to better understand their smells, so for Christmas I bought a small brass censer from the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox seminary in PA. Next, I filled the bottom of the censer with sand to protect it from the burning charcoal with the ingredients on top.
I got three incense resins from a supplier called "Scents of Earth". In my photo below, you can see three plastic bags arranged from left to right with Galbanum, Myrrh, and Frankincense. I broke them up into pellets and put a pellet of each ingredient on the charcoal. The three resins made a clean, oily, lemon and pine sap smoke.
One time I poured clove powder on top of the three pellets as in my photo above. The volume of clove powder was about the size of the pellets. Yet despite its moderate volume, the clove smell was overpowering. It was too strong and had a spicey sharp woody baking scent.
The reason why I tried using clove was because it's a candidate for the identity of "Shekheleth," the fourth ingredient in the tabernacle incense blend in Ex. 30:34.
Shekheleth's identity is uncertain because the only time that it shows up in the Bible is in the list of tabernacle ingredients.
The word "Shekheleth" sounds like it could be related to "Shekhelim," a Hebrew word for the plants of the genus "Lepidium," commonly called peppergrasses and cress plants.
However, the 3rd century BC Septuagint translation of the Bible into Greek translated "Shekheleth" using the Greek term "Onyx." Ancient Greek writers described "Onyx" as a name for material from the seashell doors of mollusks like conches and rock snails. The seashell doors were burnt as incense in the Mediterranean. The ancient Israelites used those seashells to make a blue or purple dye called "Tekeleth" for religious garments. So the seashells are another potential source of "Shekheleth."
A third candidate is Labdanum because in the ancient world it was often used as incense in blends with frankincense or myrrh.
A fourth candidate for "Shekheleth" is cloves. The Greek word "Onyx" literally means claw, fingernail, and the Talmud in c. 200 AD interprets "Shekheleth" as "Tzipuren," which also means claw, nail. Modern Hebrew takes "Tzipuren" as a term for clove spice. By comparison, the English word "clove" relates to the word "claw" as well. However, it's not clear whether in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic "Tzipuren" meant clove spice, and how much access the ancient Israelites even had to cloves. Cloves are only native to Indonesia. Archaeologists claimed to find some clove remains in ancient Assyria, but I wasn't able to find how common they were in ancient Israel.
The word "Shekheleth" sounds like it could be related to "Shekhelim," a Hebrew word for the plants of the genus "Lepidium," commonly called peppergrasses and cress plants.
However, the 3rd century BC Septuagint translation of the Bible into Greek translated "Shekheleth" using the Greek term "Onyx." Ancient Greek writers described "Onyx" as a name for material from the seashell doors of mollusks like conches and rock snails. The seashell doors were burnt as incense in the Mediterranean. The ancient Israelites used those seashells to make a blue or purple dye called "Tekeleth" for religious garments. So the seashells are another potential source of "Shekheleth."
A third candidate is Labdanum because in the ancient world it was often used as incense in blends with frankincense or myrrh.
A fourth candidate for "Shekheleth" is cloves. The Greek word "Onyx" literally means claw, fingernail, and the Talmud in c. 200 AD interprets "Shekheleth" as "Tzipuren," which also means claw, nail. Modern Hebrew takes "Tzipuren" as a term for clove spice. By comparison, the English word "clove" relates to the word "claw" as well. However, it's not clear whether in ancient Hebrew or Aramaic "Tzipuren" meant clove spice, and how much access the ancient Israelites even had to cloves. Cloves are only native to Indonesia. Archaeologists claimed to find some clove remains in ancient Assyria, but I wasn't able to find how common they were in ancient Israel.
Maybe. I haven't done that sort of research (reading the rubrics). As you probably already know, the use of incense in prayer goes back millennia. The R.C. church inherited the custom of using incense from Old Testament Jews. Today it's used during solemn Masses.
Next time I burn some incense at home I'll sprinkle in some latakia with the frankincense.
One of the things I love about this forum is reading about blends I haven't tried before. I have a tin of Magnum Opus that I will smoke eventually. I managed to buy only a single tin before the supply of Hearth and Home blends dried up. I'll guess we will have to be vigilant for the next Esoterica Penzance drop - I'm alert subscriber #11,990 on SP for that, lol.
There is a lot of discussion about "unobtanium" i.e. blends that are no longer produced and not readily obtainable, like anything with Syrian latakia in it. I can't help that. Discussing old blends may be fun but it doesn't yield any fruit for those seeking new blends to try out.
A few—Fr Dempsey, Grousemoor (ribbon cut), Nightcap—but none of them have smelled/tasted like incense to me.
Friend Pypke!
I wasn't able to find online a rubric or prescription giving specific types of incense differing between Catholic holidays or seasons.
I heard of a Roman Catholic priest using different incense blends, like a particular one for Christmas, but don't remember the details. Maybe he or one of his parishioners told me about it.
The list of incense blends that Three Kings shows on their website is neat:
"Our Incense Mixtures,"
Incense mixtures Archieven - Rene Schonefeld
Discover all incense mixtures. Three Kings’ incense is used in many religious and spiritual ceremonies around the world. Charcoal tabs are needed to burn it.
reneschonefeld.com
Instead of burning Latakia with frankincense, my recommendation would be to get mastic resin and burn it as incense. That way you could get a clear sense of the smell of mastic resin and then compare it with the smell of Latakia to see how much of that mastic resin overlapped with the smell of Latakia. This is because Latakia is treated with burning mastic wood and so mastic resin would be the particular flavor of incense that Latakia would most likely have. Mastic resin is cheap. "The Oriental Herborist" for instance sells 30g for $5, so you don't have to be scared away by the price.
Absent having Mastic resin, you can try burning pure frankincense or pure myrrh, which is what I did.
There are some nice inexpensive incense burners online that use a design whereby you don't need to use charcoal like the one below.
Or you could put the resin on a hot metal plate on a stove and in effect fry the incense. The advantage of this method is that you could get the pure mastic resin smell without it being effected by the smell of charcoal. I say this because one of the points of confusion about incense smells is that people could partly be confusing the smell of incense itself with the mix of charcoal and resins that are produced as part of the charcoal method of making incense in church.
Another factor is that some types of charcoal give off a stronger smell than others. A friend has some old charcoal that gives off a heavy dark thick old smell, whereas my own charcoal that I got this winter is a lot lighter.
I know what you mean about the downside of focusing on old blends. If a blend is still in production, then it has more real life relevance. If we are talking about discontinued blends that smell like incense, then it starts to feel like an archaeological expedition. It reminds me of the Quest for the Holy Incense.
Grousemoor Plug was syrupy in its tin note, and its smoke had a wood smell.
I cut the plug but it was still too thick to light and burn easily.
I did succeed in smoking it through, but it took a lot of relights.
Perhaps all those factors: the wood smell, the syrupyness, the thickness contributed to my friend and I thinking of it as having a note like Nag Champa or sandalwood.
When I told a friend on another forum that Nightcap wasn't like incense to me, his response was that I needed to smoke it in a "Big Pipe." I didn't have one, but I'm inclined to think that a big pipe will give just the same flavors, only more.
Mrs. Pickles,
I got into the Tabernacle ingredients because I find the Biblical temple impressive and interesting.
♨
The only ancient texts that I found specifically describing the ingredients are Exodus 30, Wisdom of Ben Sirach, Philo's and Josephus' writings, and the Talmud.Exodus 30:23-25 gives the recipe for the Tabernacle's Anointing Oil. The oil is separate from the incense, but includes ingredients that show up in incense:
KJV Translation
23. Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels,
24. And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin:
25. And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.
My notes:
Myrrh in Hebrew is "Mor."
Cinnamon is "Qinamon."
Calamus is "Qaneh-boshem."
Cassia is "Qidah."
Olive Oil is "Shemen Zayit."
23. Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels,
24. And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin:
25. And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.
My notes:
Myrrh in Hebrew is "Mor."
Cinnamon is "Qinamon."
Calamus is "Qaneh-boshem."
Cassia is "Qidah."
Olive Oil is "Shemen Zayit."
Exodus 30:34-36 gives the incense recipe.
KJV Translation
34. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take unto thee sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum; these sweet spices with pure frankincense: of each shall there be a like weight:
35. And thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy:
36. And thou shalt beat some of it very small, and put of it before the testimony in the tabernacle of the congregation, where I will meet with thee: it shall be unto you most holy.
My notes:
"Stacte" in Hebrew is "Nataph." The Greek word "Stacte" and the Hebrew "Nataph" both literally mean drops, as in water drops and tree resin gum drops. Ancient Greek writers explain that "Stacte" was a term for myrrh or for an extract of myrrh mixed with water and balanos seed oil. Exodus 30 must not specifically mean Myrrh when it uses the term Stacte, because earlier in Exodus 30:23, the same chapter specifically used the Hebrew word for Myrrh, "Mor." That is, if the author of Exodus wanted to specifically point to Myrrh for the incense ingredient, he would naturally have used the word "Mor," like he did when he described the anointing oil.
The KJV uses the Greek word "Onycha" from the Septuagint translation of the Bible to translate the Hebrew word "Shekheleth." Based on the Septuagint, "Shekheleth" perhaps referred to a substance named "Onyx" in Greek, which was made from seashell flaps. "Onycha" is a form of the word "Onyx." Other candidates for Shekheleth include Lepidium plants, Labdanum resin, and clove spice.
Ancient Hebrew did not use punctuation marks like commas. When the verse says, " Take unto thee sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum," it's not clear whether the "sweet spices" are stacte, onycha, and galbunum, or if the term refers to other spices in addition to those three. My own reading is that probably the author used the term "sweet spices" to refer to those three spices (stacte, onycha, and galbanum). This is because the author put the word "and" between those three spices but not after the word "sweet spices."
34. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take unto thee sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum; these sweet spices with pure frankincense: of each shall there be a like weight:
35. And thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy:
36. And thou shalt beat some of it very small, and put of it before the testimony in the tabernacle of the congregation, where I will meet with thee: it shall be unto you most holy.
My notes:
"Stacte" in Hebrew is "Nataph." The Greek word "Stacte" and the Hebrew "Nataph" both literally mean drops, as in water drops and tree resin gum drops. Ancient Greek writers explain that "Stacte" was a term for myrrh or for an extract of myrrh mixed with water and balanos seed oil. Exodus 30 must not specifically mean Myrrh when it uses the term Stacte, because earlier in Exodus 30:23, the same chapter specifically used the Hebrew word for Myrrh, "Mor." That is, if the author of Exodus wanted to specifically point to Myrrh for the incense ingredient, he would naturally have used the word "Mor," like he did when he described the anointing oil.
The KJV uses the Greek word "Onycha" from the Septuagint translation of the Bible to translate the Hebrew word "Shekheleth." Based on the Septuagint, "Shekheleth" perhaps referred to a substance named "Onyx" in Greek, which was made from seashell flaps. "Onycha" is a form of the word "Onyx." Other candidates for Shekheleth include Lepidium plants, Labdanum resin, and clove spice.
Ancient Hebrew did not use punctuation marks like commas. When the verse says, " Take unto thee sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum," it's not clear whether the "sweet spices" are stacte, onycha, and galbunum, or if the term refers to other spices in addition to those three. My own reading is that probably the author used the term "sweet spices" to refer to those three spices (stacte, onycha, and galbanum). This is because the author put the word "and" between those three spices but not after the word "sweet spices."
Wisdom of Ben Sirach was written by a Jewish sage in the 2nd century BC. In Chapter 24:15, the Lord's Wisdom describes her smell as Tabernacle scents. They include ingredients in the Tabernacle's anointing oil or its incense:
KJV
I gave a sweet smell like cinnamon and aspalathus, and I yielded a pleasant odour like the best myrrh, as galbanum, and onyx, and sweet storax, and as the fume of frankincense in the tabernacle.
NETS
Like cinnamon and camel’s thorn for spices, and like choice myrrh I gave forth a fragrance, like galbanum and onycha and stacte and like the vapor of frankincense in a tent.
My Notes:
These are translations from ancient Greek into English.
Cinnamon and Myrrh are specifically named as Anointing Oil ingredients in Exodus 30:34.
The Greek word that the NETS translates as "Camel's Thorn" is "Aspalathos," spelled "ἀσπάλαθος" in Greek.
I couldn't find much online about the substance "Aspalathos."
The Greek text literally says, "ὄνυξ", pronounced"Onyx," which the NETS translates as "Onycha." "Onycha" is the Greek accusative form of the Greek word Onyx.
The Greek word that the KJV translates as "sweet storax" is "stacte," spelled στακτὴ in Greek.
Galbanum, Onyx, Stacte, and Frankincense are the four terms in the Septuagint translation of Exodus 30 for the Tabernacle's incense ingredients.
I gave a sweet smell like cinnamon and aspalathus, and I yielded a pleasant odour like the best myrrh, as galbanum, and onyx, and sweet storax, and as the fume of frankincense in the tabernacle.
NETS
Like cinnamon and camel’s thorn for spices, and like choice myrrh I gave forth a fragrance, like galbanum and onycha and stacte and like the vapor of frankincense in a tent.
My Notes:
These are translations from ancient Greek into English.
Cinnamon and Myrrh are specifically named as Anointing Oil ingredients in Exodus 30:34.
The Greek word that the NETS translates as "Camel's Thorn" is "Aspalathos," spelled "ἀσπάλαθος" in Greek.
I couldn't find much online about the substance "Aspalathos."
The Greek text literally says, "ὄνυξ", pronounced"Onyx," which the NETS translates as "Onycha." "Onycha" is the Greek accusative form of the Greek word Onyx.
The Greek word that the KJV translates as "sweet storax" is "stacte," spelled στακτὴ in Greek.
Galbanum, Onyx, Stacte, and Frankincense are the four terms in the Septuagint translation of Exodus 30 for the Tabernacle's incense ingredients.
The 1st century Jewish writer Philo of Alexandria took the four tabernacle ingredients as representing the four elements, and took Exodus 30 as requiring equal amounts of each element:
(196) For the Lord enjoins here that each of the separate portions shall be equal to each, with a view to the proper composition of the whole.
(197) And as I imagine these four ingredients of which the entire perfume is composed are emblems of the four elements of which the whole world is made; he likens the stacte to water, the onycha to land, the galbanum to the air, and the pure transparent frankincense to fire; for stacte, which derives its name from the drops (stagones) in which it falls is liquid, and onycha is dry and earth-like, the sweet smelling galbanum is added by way of giving a representation of the air, for there is fragrance in the air; and the transparency which there is in frankincense serves for a representation of fire.
(198) On which account also, he has separated the things which have weight from those which are light, uniting the one class by a closely connecting combination, and bringing forth the other in a disunited form; as where he says, "Take to thyself sweet odours, stacte, onycha," these things being weighty he mentions unconnectedly, being the symbols of earth and water. Afterwards he begins afresh with the other class, which he mentions in combination, saying, "And the sweet spice of galbanum and the transparent frankincense," these again being in their own nature emblems of the light things, air and fire.
"Who Is the Heir of Divine Things?"
(197) And as I imagine these four ingredients of which the entire perfume is composed are emblems of the four elements of which the whole world is made; he likens the stacte to water, the onycha to land, the galbanum to the air, and the pure transparent frankincense to fire; for stacte, which derives its name from the drops (stagones) in which it falls is liquid, and onycha is dry and earth-like, the sweet smelling galbanum is added by way of giving a representation of the air, for there is fragrance in the air; and the transparency which there is in frankincense serves for a representation of fire.
(198) On which account also, he has separated the things which have weight from those which are light, uniting the one class by a closely connecting combination, and bringing forth the other in a disunited form; as where he says, "Take to thyself sweet odours, stacte, onycha," these things being weighty he mentions unconnectedly, being the symbols of earth and water. Afterwards he begins afresh with the other class, which he mentions in combination, saying, "And the sweet spice of galbanum and the transparent frankincense," these again being in their own nature emblems of the light things, air and fire.
"Who Is the Heir of Divine Things?"
Josephus, a 1st century Jewish historian from a family of Temple priests, wrote that,
The altar of incense, by the thirteen fragrant spices from sea and from land, both desert and inhabited, with which it was replenished, signified that all things are of God and for God.
SOURCE: Josephus, Wars of the Jews, Book 5, Chapter 5, v. 5
SOURCE: Josephus, Wars of the Jews, Book 5, Chapter 5, v. 5
The Talmud (c. 200 AD) describes the incense blend in Keritot 6A:
The Sages taught in a baraita: How is the blending of the incense performed? Balm, and onycha, and galbanum, and frankincense, each of these by a weight of seventy maneh, i.e., seventy units of one hundred dinars. Myrrh, and cassia, and spikenard, and saffron, each of these by a weight of sixteen maneh. Costus by a weight of twelve maneh; three maneh of aromatic bark; and nine maneh of cinnamon. Kersannah lye of the volume of nine kav; Cyprus wine of the volume of three se’a and three more kav, a half-se’a. If one does not have Cyprus wine he brings old white wine. Sodomite salt is brought by the volume of a quarter-kav. Lastly, a minimal amount of the smoke raiser, a plant that causes the smoke of the incense to rise properly. Rabbi Natan says: Also a minimal amount of Jordan amber.
And if one placed honey in the incense he has disqualified it, as it is stated: “For you shall make no leaven, nor any honey, smoke as an offering made by fire unto the Lord” (Leviticus 2:11). If he omitted any one of its spices he is liable to receive death at the hand of Heaven. Rabbi Shimon says: The balm mentioned here is nothing other than a resin exuded from the balsam tree, not the bark of the tree itself. The Kersannah lye mentioned is not part of the ingredients of the incense itself, but it is necessary as one rubs the onycha in it so that the onycha should be pleasant. Likewise, the Cyprus wine is required as one soaks the onycha in it so that it should be strong. And urine is good for this purpose, but one does not bring urine into the Temple because it is inappropriate.
SOURCE: Keritot 6a, The William Davidson Talmud, (Koren - Steinsaltz translation)
My notes:
The William Davidson translation gets "Balm" from the Talmud's Aramaic/Hebrew word "Tsuri".
The translation's word "Onycha" is taken from the Aramaic/Hebrew word "Tzipuren."
Wikipedia has a more detailed discussion of the Talmud's ingredients here: Incense offering in rabbinic literature - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incense_offering_in_rabbinic_literature
And if one placed honey in the incense he has disqualified it, as it is stated: “For you shall make no leaven, nor any honey, smoke as an offering made by fire unto the Lord” (Leviticus 2:11). If he omitted any one of its spices he is liable to receive death at the hand of Heaven. Rabbi Shimon says: The balm mentioned here is nothing other than a resin exuded from the balsam tree, not the bark of the tree itself. The Kersannah lye mentioned is not part of the ingredients of the incense itself, but it is necessary as one rubs the onycha in it so that the onycha should be pleasant. Likewise, the Cyprus wine is required as one soaks the onycha in it so that it should be strong. And urine is good for this purpose, but one does not bring urine into the Temple because it is inappropriate.
SOURCE: Keritot 6a, The William Davidson Talmud, (Koren - Steinsaltz translation)
My notes:
The William Davidson translation gets "Balm" from the Talmud's Aramaic/Hebrew word "Tsuri".
The translation's word "Onycha" is taken from the Aramaic/Hebrew word "Tzipuren."
Wikipedia has a more detailed discussion of the Talmud's ingredients here: Incense offering in rabbinic literature - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incense_offering_in_rabbinic_literature
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@cosmicfolklore
When people talk about "incenselike" smells, do you think that they tend to just mean it in some vague oily spiced-wood dark smokey way?
Occasionally I see reviews specifically comparing blends to church incense.
When people talk about "incenselike" smells, do you think that they tend to just mean it in some vague oily spiced-wood dark smokey way?
Occasionally I see reviews specifically comparing blends to church incense.
Dear Pypke and @starrynight
One could start by getting a good handle on the smell of church incense, then gather a list of blends that reviewers described as incenselike, and then compare them. Or reviewers who were familiar with church incense's smell and who tried many blends could give their answer as to which had the closest smell.
A lot of mixtures by Three Kings, one of the main suppliers for US parishes, emphasize resins from Frankincense (Boswellia genus), Myrrh, and Styrax.
SOURCE: reneschonefeld.com/products/incense-mixtures
By comparison, descriptions online of Mastic resin say that it has a pine, cedar, lemon, pistachio, fresh, woody, or citrusy flavor.
I got Three Kings' "Temple of Solomon" incense blend because I I was into the Biblical tabernacle blend.
Three Kings also calls the blend "Salomon." The producer's description for the blend says:
"Its fragrance is a classic combination of different types of incense, smelling of various spices with hints of cinnamon and cloves. The fragrance is rich and deep refined with spicy tones.
Salomon is made up of sandalwood powder and three types of gum granules (Olibanum, Myrrh and Gum Benjoin) . The sandalwood power stems from the African Pterocarpus soyauxii Taub.
The granules are obtained from different gum trees, in particular the African Boswellia Papyrifera and Commiphora Myrrha and the Asian Styrax Benzoin. The granules have been washed in perfume oils and coloured with pigments..."
Salomon - Rene Schonefeld - reneschonefeld.com/products/incense/incense-mixtures/salomon
All of the ingredients in the description relate to candidates for ingredients in the Talmud's recipe for the Tabernacle blend.
"Olibanum" is another word for Frankincense, resin from the genus Boswellia. This mixture uses "African B. Papyrifera," one of the species in the genus.
The mixture's "Commiphora Myrrha" and "Styrax Benzoin" are two resins that are candidates for what Exodus 30's Tabernacle blend description calls "Nataph," AKA "Stacte" in Greek.
"Its fragrance is a classic combination of different types of incense, smelling of various spices with hints of cinnamon and cloves. The fragrance is rich and deep refined with spicy tones.
Salomon is made up of sandalwood powder and three types of gum granules (Olibanum, Myrrh and Gum Benjoin) . The sandalwood power stems from the African Pterocarpus soyauxii Taub.
The granules are obtained from different gum trees, in particular the African Boswellia Papyrifera and Commiphora Myrrha and the Asian Styrax Benzoin. The granules have been washed in perfume oils and coloured with pigments..."
Salomon - Rene Schonefeld - reneschonefeld.com/products/incense/incense-mixtures/salomon
All of the ingredients in the description relate to candidates for ingredients in the Talmud's recipe for the Tabernacle blend.
"Olibanum" is another word for Frankincense, resin from the genus Boswellia. This mixture uses "African B. Papyrifera," one of the species in the genus.
The mixture's "Commiphora Myrrha" and "Styrax Benzoin" are two resins that are candidates for what Exodus 30's Tabernacle blend description calls "Nataph," AKA "Stacte" in Greek.
On the left is a photo of my censer with tan sand in the bottom, a charcoal disc on the sand, and the red-colored incense blend on top. A packet of the blend is in the upper left of the photo.
On the right is my censer burning the blend when I put the lid on top.
In case a reader here on the forum hasn't recently smelled church incense and wants a granule each of frankincense, myrrh, and galbanum, it's no big deal for me to send them as a gift.
The very first time someone lights pinon wood on fire around you. It’s not like pine or cedar… but more like incense. Then when you realize what it is, it makes sense to your senses.
Or the very first step into a Hindu temple… and you ask yourself, “what’s that?” A smell… is that… Ohhh, incense.
But somewhere in the dark smokey flavors of the familiar tobacconess… you get a whiff of something different… is that a circus? a street fair? Exotic temples… the brush up against a bronze skinned street whore in a long ago village, tents… it speaks of tents… batique designs, red dirt pottery, in far away places… The the tobacco brings you back in… what’s that? Hints of burning tires and angry working class?
Somewhere in between
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Went to Dubai several years ago for job training. I'm never without Bakhoor incense now.
Here is a handy list of blend comments from forum users. I underlined blends with more reviewers describing the blend that way.
Esoterica Penzance: "the older version that I am most familiar with was the first that I realized had that incense like flavor." ~CosmicFolklore , ~lukasstrifeson, ~Starrynight, "Penzance gets incense-y if smoked fairly slow in a shallow wide bowl ( like a Prince ), and it has to be at the right moisture too, otherwise it tastes just like any other Lat blend." ~rcstan, ~LudwigB88, ~jpmcwjr, "I don't taste that incense that i used to in Penzance," ~Itstone, "I never find Penzance at all." ~aldecaker
Peretti’s Tashkent: "but Oriental #40 is probably even more incense like in that way." ~ Mrs. Pickles
Peretti's Century: ~gloucesterman
Peretti Royal ~Lochinvar
SG RB Plug was "more 'Grateful Dead concert' than 'church' incense." ~Dave 760, "if you want true incense, RB Plug would give that to you." ~hugodrax
SG Skiff Mixture: ~Bigpond, ~fmgee
C&D Seersucker ~fightnhampster
C & D Dreams of Kadath ~fightnhampster , ~lukasstrifeson
C & D Pirate Kake "definitely has an incense note." ~ @BriaronBoerum
C&D Bow-Legged Bear: "I encountered an overwhelming perfume/incense note in the initial few bowls." ~Suamrai61
C & D Byzantium ~sthbkr77
Gawith Hoggarth Bosun Cut Plug and / or Bosun Plug *Clove & Floral ~Paul RVA
GLP Quiet Nights "Compared to my frequent exposure to incense at Catholic Masses" ~Pypke, ~lukasstrifeson, ~jerwynn
GLP Westminster "gives me incense vibes," ~tmcg81
GLP Chelsea Morning ~lukasstrifeson
G L Pease Regents Flake *Fig & Spice ~Paul RVA
GLP Pembroke "does have Margate's unique alluring evergreen fragrance & incense-like quality." ~Review quoted by ~@LotusEater. LotusEater commented: "I don’t really get an incense like quality from it."
GLP Charing Cross: "deep incense flavor" ~philobeddoe
GLP Abingdon: ~sthbkr77
GLP Cairo ~Krizzose
GLP Embarcadero ~Krizzose
H&H Black House / 759 Match: "deep incense flavor" ~philobeddoe, ~ LudwigB88, ~jerwynn
H & H White Knight "WhiteKnight, I think, has that incense flavor." ~newbroom. "...may have given off what I used to think was 'incense', but I'm picking up the cedar, olive etc. ~Perdurabo
MacBaren Presbyterian ~Starrynight, ~philobeddoe, ~Sallow
MB Vanilla Cream: "only blend... from which I once got such a note" ~Olkofri
Sutliff Holiday Pipe Mixture: "Holiday pipe mixture (Sutiff makes a match) probably has the most noticeable church incense smell" ~JoeH
Dunhill's Durbar: "Incense/cedar notes usually Basma and other orientals. Durbar was the king for this." ~Sasquatch
John Cotton's 1&2 "an aroma and aftertaste loosely akin to that of 'incense.'" ~michaelmirza
John Cotton Smyrna ~Clickklick
Gladora Pesse Canoe: "I dont think Gladora fits in that league." ~Sigmund
Lane Crown Achievement: "I've experience the incense thing most so far"~jerwynn
Peterson's Old Dublin: "Basma is the incensiest I think... Old Dublin from Peterson has a good dose." ~Sasquatch
McClelland's Yenidje Highlander: "very incense like blend" ~texmexpipe, ~Chasing Embers, "the room note was very incense like" ~hiplainsdrifter, "My '14 seems more tasty than the '16. Probably a little more incense-like too." ~Balkisobrains
McClelland British Woods: ~Aikatal
McClelland Samovar: ~sthbkr77, Lochinvar
McClelland's 2025 English Cavendish, "a kind of spicy incense smoke," ~agnosticpipe
McClelland's Frog Morton on the Town: ~jackswilling, ~aggravatedfarmer, ~disinformatique
Wilke No. 10 ~jackswilling
Since @rcstan wrote that he gets incenselike notes from Penzance in his Prince pipe, I looked up the model. The "Dutch Pipe Smoker" blog proposed that a Prince or a Pot pipe is the best to get the fuller range of a blend's flavors:
Esoterica Penzance: "the older version that I am most familiar with was the first that I realized had that incense like flavor." ~CosmicFolklore , ~lukasstrifeson, ~Starrynight, "Penzance gets incense-y if smoked fairly slow in a shallow wide bowl ( like a Prince ), and it has to be at the right moisture too, otherwise it tastes just like any other Lat blend." ~rcstan, ~LudwigB88, ~jpmcwjr, "I don't taste that incense that i used to in Penzance," ~Itstone, "I never find Penzance at all." ~aldecaker
Peretti’s Tashkent: "but Oriental #40 is probably even more incense like in that way." ~ Mrs. Pickles
Peretti's Century: ~gloucesterman
Peretti Royal ~Lochinvar
SG RB Plug was "more 'Grateful Dead concert' than 'church' incense." ~Dave 760, "if you want true incense, RB Plug would give that to you." ~hugodrax
SG Skiff Mixture: ~Bigpond, ~fmgee
C&D Seersucker ~fightnhampster
C & D Dreams of Kadath ~fightnhampster , ~lukasstrifeson
C & D Pirate Kake "definitely has an incense note." ~ @BriaronBoerum
C&D Bow-Legged Bear: "I encountered an overwhelming perfume/incense note in the initial few bowls." ~Suamrai61
C & D Byzantium ~sthbkr77
Gawith Hoggarth Bosun Cut Plug and / or Bosun Plug *Clove & Floral ~Paul RVA
GLP Quiet Nights "Compared to my frequent exposure to incense at Catholic Masses" ~Pypke, ~lukasstrifeson, ~jerwynn
GLP Westminster "gives me incense vibes," ~tmcg81
GLP Chelsea Morning ~lukasstrifeson
G L Pease Regents Flake *Fig & Spice ~Paul RVA
GLP Pembroke "does have Margate's unique alluring evergreen fragrance & incense-like quality." ~Review quoted by ~@LotusEater. LotusEater commented: "I don’t really get an incense like quality from it."
GLP Charing Cross: "deep incense flavor" ~philobeddoe
GLP Abingdon: ~sthbkr77
GLP Cairo ~Krizzose
GLP Embarcadero ~Krizzose
H&H Black House / 759 Match: "deep incense flavor" ~philobeddoe, ~ LudwigB88, ~jerwynn
H & H White Knight "WhiteKnight, I think, has that incense flavor." ~newbroom. "...may have given off what I used to think was 'incense', but I'm picking up the cedar, olive etc. ~Perdurabo
MacBaren Presbyterian ~Starrynight, ~philobeddoe, ~Sallow
MB Vanilla Cream: "only blend... from which I once got such a note" ~Olkofri
Sutliff Holiday Pipe Mixture: "Holiday pipe mixture (Sutiff makes a match) probably has the most noticeable church incense smell" ~JoeH
Dunhill's Durbar: "Incense/cedar notes usually Basma and other orientals. Durbar was the king for this." ~Sasquatch
John Cotton's 1&2 "an aroma and aftertaste loosely akin to that of 'incense.'" ~michaelmirza
John Cotton Smyrna ~Clickklick
Gladora Pesse Canoe: "I dont think Gladora fits in that league." ~Sigmund
Lane Crown Achievement: "I've experience the incense thing most so far"~jerwynn
Peterson's Old Dublin: "Basma is the incensiest I think... Old Dublin from Peterson has a good dose." ~Sasquatch
McClelland's Yenidje Highlander: "very incense like blend" ~texmexpipe, ~Chasing Embers, "the room note was very incense like" ~hiplainsdrifter, "My '14 seems more tasty than the '16. Probably a little more incense-like too." ~Balkisobrains
McClelland British Woods: ~Aikatal
McClelland Samovar: ~sthbkr77, Lochinvar
McClelland's 2025 English Cavendish, "a kind of spicy incense smoke," ~agnosticpipe
McClelland's Frog Morton on the Town: ~jackswilling, ~aggravatedfarmer, ~disinformatique
Wilke No. 10 ~jackswilling
Since @rcstan wrote that he gets incenselike notes from Penzance in his Prince pipe, I looked up the model. The "Dutch Pipe Smoker" blog proposed that a Prince or a Pot pipe is the best to get the fuller range of a blend's flavors:
