What to Cellar for Improvement?

[DanWil84]

Maybe this is beating a dead horse, I really like to search first, but I couldnt find the answer on below question or I didn't searched enough....

In my first year of pipe smoking I tried quite some blends. I have a notion of what I like now (which is no guarantee that I like it in a few years) and I have cellared 2 of them for a few years stock now. I do understand cellaring isn't only about "aging" or "improving" tobacco as that is with pipe tobacco highly debatable, it's also about "not being as cheap as it is now" and so on, but is it correct to my understanding a for example burley blend isn't going to "improve" a lot?

I really like MB Golden Blend for example and would like it to make a mainstay in my "rotation", I have for about 1 year stock of this blend. Is my understanding correct that generally VA, VaPer and (English) Mixtures would age "better" than a Burley for example due to for VA's the sugar content and for mixtures the leaf could take over some characteristics of each other leaf? Would I be "better" off to cellar tobacco like OGS and buy a loose tin Golden Blend here and there? Or am I misinformed and should I cellar everything I like just to be sure to have it when it is no longer?

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I assume you mean Golden Extra? I Jarred several pounds, it has aged nicely. A little sweeter and the rough edges smoothed out. All blends will change with age. Whether or not that change represents improvement is personal to you. But it only makes sense to cellar the blends you like vs cellaring based upon some perceived aging improvement rating.

 

[JKoD]

Maybe this is beating a dead horse, I really like to search first, but I couldnt find the answer on below question or I didn't searched enough....

In my first year of pipe smoking I tried quite some blends. I have a notion of what I like now (which is no guarantee that I like it in a few years) and I have cellared 2 of them for a few years stock now. I do understand cellaring isn't only about "aging" or "improving" tobacco as that is with pipe tobacco highly debatable, it's also about "not being as cheap as it is now" and so on, but is it correct to my understanding a for example burley blend isn't going to "improve" a lot?

I really like MB Golden Blend for example and would like it to make a mainstay in my "rotation", I have for about 1 year stock of this blend. Is my understanding correct that generally VA, VaPer and (English) Mixtures would age "better" than a Burley for example due to for VA's the sugar content and for mixtures the leaf could take over some characteristics of each other leaf? Would I be "better" off to cellar tobacco like OGS and buy a loose tin Golden Blend here and there? Or am I misinformed and should I cellar everything I like just to be sure to have it when it is no longer?

Look forward to the variety of answers coming your way. Sounds like you’ve got the basics covered in your post. Sugar matters. There is a science side to the process which isn’t debatable. Then there is the personal taste and opinion side which is…well…coming soon to this thread! ?

 

[reloader]

Maybe this is beating a dead horse, I really like to search first, but I couldnt find the answer on below question or I didn't searched enough....

In my first year of pipe smoking I tried quite some blends. I have a notion of what I like now (which is no guarantee that I like it in a few years) and I have cellared 2 of them for a few years stock now. I do understand cellaring isn't only about "aging" or "improving" tobacco as that is with pipe tobacco highly debatable, it's also about "not being as cheap as it is now" and so on, but is it correct to my understanding a for example burley blend isn't going to "improve" a lot?

I really like MB Golden Blend for example and would like it to make a mainstay in my "rotation", I have for about 1 year stock of this blend. Is my understanding correct that generally VA, VaPer and (English) Mixtures would age "better" than a Burley for example due to for VA's the sugar content and for mixtures the leaf could take over some characteristics of each other leaf? Would I be "better" off to cellar tobacco like OGS and buy a loose tin Golden Blend here and there? Or am I misinformed and should I cellar everything I like just to be sure to have it when it is no longer?

I too am looking forward to what the more knowledgeable members have to say on this matter. I'm just now going through many blends to see what I prefer and wish to put some away for future use.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

All speculations using universal stereotypes of genres is bullshit. Not all burley blends "never age," nor do all Virginias age the best. This is all based on broad assumptions that I find faulted. I love aged burleys and latakias. I think all of this came when Brian came up with this "scale" on the radioshow. I love Brian, but... he isn't always correct, and often misquoted. When he says that Burleys age the least, I think he was surmising that burleys had the slowest aging properties... but even this I find incorrect. There is a significant difference, but it just might not be to your liking.

Wait, even what I have said is not totally correct... no amount of change in aging is dramatic. A mediocre blend is not going to be significantly better in ten years. Think of it as rounding out some of the edges of the flavors.

You are in Europe, so I am not sure whom to suggest to you for trying out some aged blends... and if the damned postal system would just get you my packages... grrrr... anyways, if you had the opportunity to try some aged blends, you'd see.

Folks that smoke a 10 year old Virginia, like maybe FVF, with their eyes rolling back in their heads, saying, "It's soooo sweet!" are just putting you on. Total bullshit. Even the little crystals... total bullshit. They do get better, but not to some Nirvana experience.

If you like it, cellar it, because you never know what tomorrow brings.

And, there is a difference between Golden Extra and Golden Blend, but we just don't see Golden Blend here in the states. I do have about 12 pounds of Golden Extra set back, but I've only been cellaring it for about five years.

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

In my experience, if a “burley blend” is accented, accentuated, or modified with Virginias then the blend does age and become sweeter & more well rounded. However, I’d be careful to assume that straight burley blends don’t age well. Everyone’s taste is different. I’d also recommend cellaring any tobacco that you really enjoy for all the reasons (flavor, price, availability, etc.) that everyone has said before. ?️

 

[briarbuck]

Given the current conditions of scarcity, I would buy as much as I could afford of anything I liked. When I got to about 100lbs I would reevaluate and adjust.

 

[RobNYC]

In my opinion, the best blends to cellar are the ones you like the most.

 

[DanWil84]

Thank you all for the replies.

@hoosierpipeguy it's called golden blend in europe, golden extra in the USA, I do think they are the same blend @cosmicfolklore lenghty reply for saying BUY BUY BUY!!!! Haha thanks, and indeed those damn postal services.....

Like I stated in the OP and the number of "....." I used I don't expect magic from time. A shitty blend now will stay that way in a jar for 10 years, thats how far my knowledge reached.

I think it's safe to say it's smarter to buy just because I can get it now for a price it is now.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Thank you all for the replies.

@hoosierpipeguy it's called golden blend in europe, golden extra in the USA, I do think they are the same blend @cosmicfolklore lenghty reply for saying BUY BUY BUY!!!! Haha thanks, and indeed those damn postal services.....

Like I stated in the OP and the number of "....." I used I don't expect magic from time. A shitty blend now will stay that way in a jar for 10 years, thats how far my knowledge reached.

I think it's safe to say it's smarter to buy just because I can get it now for a price it is now.

I just believe 100% that a blend is not going to go bad in a jar. Not even the aromatics. I mean, how can they get worse, ha ha. I don't think there is much risk in setting something back that you love to smoke, now.

 

[karam]

I was ruminating on similar lines to you last night while smoking and walking. I reached the same conclusions that are suggested by the more experienced guys above me here (hoosier, cosmic). The conclusion was to build my cellar with stuff I like and not consider aging potential much. If it happens for the better it's a plus, but I won't buy with aging in mind (nevermind C&D's very clever cellar series marketing).

Yesterday I tried a couple of blends that have aged in my hands for 2 years, here's what I found:

• Dan StBernard Flake - it became less grassy, somewhat LESS sweet, but more substantial in body than when fresh - seriously, think I prefer it fresh!
• Motzek 16/5 Der Neue - big change, the spice and liquorice I used to taste is toned down to almost zero, and it tastes a lot like a matured Virginia VaPer than it did fresh where the Perique was not detectable by me. Deeper, also less sweet than before. Also turned more nutty, savoury, think I prefer it aged.

I have had other aged blends but none which I smoked a lot of, or had the opportunity to observe how it aged in my hands. If the two above are something to go by I observe an overall deepening of flavour, and some LOSS of sweetness, despite having read time and again that aged Virginia is sweet enough to send you to the dentist, give you diabetes etc. Not that it may not be, but the two blends I tasted myself didn't change to that. Will see in a few years when my StJames Flake hits 5 years of age.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I just imagine 20 years from now, some schmuck is going to be opening a jar of 1Q, and packing a bowl (in hiding of course, because smoking will be forbidden) and cursing me, because the vanilla will have dissipated some and they are left tasting just that crappy tobacco.

I'll be dead of course... so I won't care.

 

[btp79]

I'm hoping Peterson 3Ps ages forever and amazing, otherwise I'm wayyyyyyy over stocked lol.

 

[JSPiper71]

Look forward to the variety of answers coming your way. Sounds like you’ve got the basics covered in your post. Sugar matters. There is a science side to the process which isn’t debatable. Then there is the personal taste and opinion side which is…well…coming soon to this thread! ?

As a newbie, I'll only offer my experience with wine, cigars and other things that I have more experience with, which I believe is absolutely relevant here. As folks are saying, the science behind aging is undeniable. It's when it comes to personal taste that makes this process very abstract and difficult to establish rules that are etched in stone (but also most of the fun!!). For example, I have tried some incredible Burgundy wines, both white and red that have aged 20 years or more. They are considered to be prized collectors to some, demanding hundreds if not thousands of dollars. They however, are very very different from what a bottle tastes like that is half or a quarter the age. Cigars, same thing, but not as dramatic in my personal experience. This is where it comes down to personal taste and finding your own sweet spot. My plan with pipe tobacco is to lay things down in batches and try things out in 2 year, 5 year, 10 year increments. I will be fast tracking this process by pilfering aged selections from any of you fine fellas willing to sell at the premium they deserve. This is what I do with wine and cigars and it helps establish where the sweet spot is for my personal taste.

 

[JKoD]

As a newbie, I'll only offer my experience with wine, cigars and other things that I have more experience with, which I believe is absolutely relevant here. As folks are saying, the science behind aging is undeniable. It's when it comes to personal taste that makes this process very abstract and difficult to establish rules that are etched in stone (but also most of the fun!!). For example, I have tried some incredible Burgundy wines, both white and red that have aged 20 years or more. They are considered to be prized collectors to some, demanding hundreds if not thousands of dollars. They however, are very very different from what a bottle tastes like that is half or a quarter the age. Cigars, same thing, but not as dramatic in my personal experience. This is where it comes down to personal taste and finding your own sweet spot. My plan with pipe tobacco is to lay things down in batches and try things out in 2 year, 5 year, 10 year increments. I will be fast tracking this process by pilfering aged selections from any of you fine fellas willing to sell at the premium they deserve. This is what I do with wine and cigars and it helps establish where the sweet spot is for my personal taste.

Right.

But, I think the aging conversation somewhat ignores the fact that you’re already buying products that ARE AGED ?. Not always, but plenty enough.

I have a “cellar” but I’m really doing what I consider long-term storage.

 

[kcghost]

Generally speaking VaPers and VA's age the best and for the longest time. English age the second best age for an appreciable time. But this is generally speaking there are exceptions.

The only reason to age Aros is to build up your supply of them.

 

[Grangerous]

My last two 12 ounce cans of Granger were both STG from around 2014 - 2017. They can’t be newer than 2017 because my tobacconist died in ‘17 and what pipe tobacco that remains is his old stock. — The place is a vape shop, lottery ticket, cigar stop now. I spotted these cans sitting in the cigar humidor, rusting.

Anyway. One of these cans was bulging and let quite a puff of air escape when I cracked it!

The 5-8 year old Granger is now gone.

Today I opened one purchased in 2020 and there’s no difference.

Good quality control STG!

 

[sablebrush52]

I cellared in order to have what I like to smoke. Aging potential was never a strong consideration. With respect to Virginias sweetening with age, I've had a few jars of FVF and SJF, aged over 12 years, that turned sweet like caramel, while others of the same blend from a different year didn't develop any marked sweetness. Same with Christmas Cheer. So I have to wonder if differences in batches of the same blend, or different releases of "single vintage" types, like Christmas Cheer, will have different results years down the road.
Perhaps we should reconsider what "aging well" really means. Maybe it's enough that the blend doesn't curl up its toes and turn to shit.
One blend that I do find changes a lot is PS-LBF, but I believe it's because it's released too soon, when the tobacco is still a bit green. For me fresh LBF is about as interesting as cardboard but with 4 or more years in the jar the flavors really develop.
Buy what you like in order to have it. You won't get any warning when a blend suddenly disappears. Be prepared to be delighted by the change some blends undergo and maybe not so much by the changes other blends undergo.
Don't fall for the "one size fits all" notion that aging "improves" all blends. A mediocre blend will still be a mediocre blend after some years.

 

[Jacob74]

I cellared in order to have what I like to smoke. Aging potential was never a strong consideration. With respect to Virginias sweetening with age, I've had a few jars of FVF and SJF, aged over 12 years, that turned sweet like caramel, while others of the same blend from a different year didn't develop any marked sweetness. Same with Christmas Cheer. So I have to wonder if differences in batches of the same blend, or different releases of "single vintage" types, like Christmas Cheer, will have different results years down the road.
Perhaps we should reconsider what "aging well" really means. Maybe it's enough that the blend doesn't curl up its toes and turn to shit.
One blend that I do find changes a lot is PS-LBF, but I believe it's because it's released too soon, when the tobacco is still a bit green. For me fresh LBF is about as interesting as cardboard but with 4 or more years in the jar the flavors really develop.
Buy what you like in order to have it. You won't get any warning when a blend suddenly disappears. Be prepared to be delighted by the change some blends undergo and maybe not so much by the changes other blends undergo.
Don't fall for the "one size fits all" notion that aging "improves" all blends. A mediocre blend will still be a mediocre blend after some years.

I agree completely. So far, I've only been investing tobacco into my cellar that I'm confident I already enjoy. I genuinely hope that everything ages well, and my delight in it only increases in time.My plan is if I do find that a particular blend ages in a way I don't like, I'll just trade it on the forum here for something that works for me.

 

[herrmann]

this thread is very intrusting, I think many people on here smoke vaper or English, how do you feel about cellaring aros such as the many cherry or other blends?