What Role Does Briar Play in Quality?

[numbersix]

This is something I've been wondering... In the past I've read that Dunhill uses a special oil curing process and carefully aged briar. I know from smoking my one and only Dunhill that it is indeed head and shoulders above all of my other pipes so I find it hard to believe that it's all just fine woodworking that's involved in a better than average smoke.
But when I go window shopping on the 'net I see a large number of artisan makers, some of whom command several hundreds of dollars for a pipe; yet when I research the maker, rarely do they discuss the type of briar, where it's from or the curing methods they use. It's almost as if they don't consider these things important. Which makes me wonder if they're just buying random blocks and going from there.
So I guess my question is: are some of these expensive artisan pipes nothing more than fine craftsmanship on a piece of mediocre briar?

 

[rmbittner]

So I guess my question is: are some of these expensive artisan pipes nothing more than fine craftsmanship on a piece of mediocre briar?

I'm not sure why you're saying "mediocre briar." Why don't you think it's high-quality briar? Because they don't talk about it? I'm guessing that most artisans would say that if you're paying upwards of $500 for a pipe, the high quality of the briar should be taken for granted.
My guess is that no artisan pipe makers are actually curing their own briar. I don't think they'd have the cash flow to buy and then sit on hundreds of pounds of uncured briar for years. (Although it wouldn't surprise me if some pipemakers take extra curing steps for the cured briar they do acquire.)
Also, think about it this way: Dunhill may be using high-quality briar, but they are, ultimately, producing a machine-made pipe, which greatly reduces manufacturing costs. So you're paying more for the briar and the brand name than you are for the actual creation of the pipe. Things are different with artisan pipemakers, who are creating a handmade product with that same high-quality wood; the price may work out the same, but the balance of where your money is going shifts from paying for a prestige brand name to paying for the actual handiwork involved.
Make sense?

 

[mlyvers]

i have also heard that oil curing is not the best way to cure a piece of briar. i think dunhill uses this method of curing, i could be wrong here. i think you would frist drive off the water or what ever is inside the briar in order to let the wood breath while smoking. i maybe off base here. i know there are different types of briar as well. iam a novice in this area, not an expert. i would like to own a dunhill someday.
mike.

 

[numbersix]

most artisans would say that if you're paying upwards of $500 for a pipe, the high quality of the briar should be taken for granted.

I am sure many would want me to assume that, but experience has shown that it's not something to take for granted. If an artisan spend 10-20 hours on a pipe, he may believe his pipe is worth $700 - but a maker's time doesn't always equate to a quality pipe.
My thinking right now is that all briar is not equal and that the quality of briar likely plays as large a role as craftsmanship when it comes to smoking quality.
So I am left wondering if some makers are simply buying a grab bag of random briar blocks of indeterminate age and if so, are these pieces of briar offering the same quality of smoke as a properly aged and cured piece of briar?

 

[rmbittner]

i have also heard that oil curing is not the best way to cure a piece of briar.

It may not be the "best" way to cure a piece of briar -- I have no idea what the "best" method might be -- but it is an absolutely terrific way to cure a piece of briar!
That's especially true if you smoke Virginias. In my experience, an oil-cured pipe -- Dunhill does it, Radice offers some oil-cured models as well -- really brings out the best in a Virginia-forward blend.

 

[mlyvers]

great question sir. who knows, maybe some of our members who work in the industry will shed some light on this subject.
mike.

 

[spartan]

You don't think that master carvers spend the extra money on the best briar they can get their hands on?
I don't know the facts, but I assume it's safe to expect quality from artisans whose reputations are of good standing.
I'm interested to hear from any artisan pipe makers who may be a member on this site though.

 

[cleidophoros]

I have no fancy artisan pipes so skipping that but how long has it been since Dunhill dropped oil curing?

So I am left wondering if some makers are simply buying a grab bag of random briar blocks of indeterminate age and if so, are these pieces of briar offering the same quality of smoke as a properly aged and cured piece of briar.

If that's the case logically those 2 blocks will certainly not be able to deliver the same quality.

And I think the briar is more important than the workmanship. It's not rocket science; 1 big hole for the tobacco, 1 smaller hole for the shank and a plastic bit to stick into said hole in the shank. With the use of machinery it shouldn't be too difficult to align 2 holes.

 

[numbersix]

You don't think that master carvers spend the extra money on the best briar they can get their hands on?

I just don't know.
If they were, I'd expect that they'd spend reams discussing how they go about doing so. Buying perfectly aged briar and what curing methods used should be a huge bragging point.
Also, there are all kinds of artisan makers out there, some new and inexperienced, some older and more experienced, some asking hundreds, others asking thousands of dollars - and yet few (at least the few I've looked up) seem to discuss the type of briar being used.
P.S.
This is not meant to be an attack on artisan makers. I've heard enough experienced smokers attest to the smoking qualities of a fine artisan pipe. It's just a question I've had floating in my mind for some time.

 

[gray4lines]

I have seen where some artisans say where they get their briar, and that it is "the best you can buy." No other detail than that really.
But can't you just look at the grain on a pipe and determine, at least somewhat, the quality of the briar? You won't know the curing process, but the quality of the wood should be visible, right?
Curing does make a difference, otherwise big pipe companies wouldn't be sitting on blocks that are 10 plus years old. But, I can't imagine an artisan practically wasting time on a sub-par quality or cured piece of briar. After all, it is their reputation, and if it doesn't smoke good, they're sunk.

 

[gray4lines]

If they were, I'd expect that they'd spend reams discussing how they go about doing so. Buying perfectly aged briar and what curing methods used should be a huge bragging point.

Maybe briar sources are guarded, almost like blasting and curing methods... Why tell everyone else exactly how to make pipes as good as you? If I found a top notch briar supplier...I'd keep it under my hat so I could keep going back

 

[tbradsim1]

I have 2 very high end Artisan pipes and they suck, wet , smoke hot , is it the pipe maker, I don"t believe their work is beautiful, I believe it's the briar, their is a running joke in Italy that the Americans get the leftovers. The old cajun

 

[mlyvers]

i have a savenlli autograph that smokes eveybit as good as my charatans make supreme s-100. i also have a achilles favorite "sea coral capri". all smoke great.
mike.

 

[numbersix]

I'd far rather have a pipe made by the hands of a skilled artisan, as opposed to a mass produced pipe.

Bear in mind, this is not a discussion on whether or not Dunhill's are better than artisan pipes. And it's not an attack on artisan pipes. I am just curious if most artisans are really offering quality briar?
I don't doubt that some (perhaps many) are, but at the same time, I just don't know for sure.
And another important point is that not all artisans are equal. I see some lesser experienced artisan makers (i.e. carving for only a 4-5 years) still commanding big dollars with no mention on briar. It's in those cases that I wonder if all one is getting a pretty pipe.

 

[numbersix]

I'm not advertising, but I did purchase a David Jones pipe and this is from his site:
These pipes are handmade from extra quality plateau briar. I purchased a lot of briar in the early years. Thus I have maintained briar stocks far beyond my immediate needs. This means that I do not have to wonder about the provenance of my wood. My briar is stored in a controlled environment for several years, then brought into the shop for final curing 5 to 7 years before use.

Nice. This is the type of info I would expect from a quality maker.

I have 2 very high end Artisan pipes and they suck, wet , smoke hot , is it the pipe maker, I don"t believe their work is beautiful, I believe it's the briar, their is a running joke in Italy that the Americans get the leftovers. The old cajun

This is precisely my fear with some makers...

 

[mlyvers]

iam not sure numbersix. who knows? i do know i have english and italian made pipes, and they smoke very well. this would include charatan and savinelli. i supose the pipes iam referring to are mass produced. sorry for the confusion here sir.
mike.

 

[mthanded]

I would think that briar, like any other wood is graded based on age, grain, size, etc. Based on the grade of the briar, pipe makers base which style or product line they will make with that particular piece. I would also assume that the artisans buy only the top grade briar so they can command the higher prices.
I'm no expert either but putting a dunhill next to a basket pipe shows the difference in the wood even though both are briar pipes.

 

[mlyvers]

of course we all know that charatans are no longer made. however they are very good pipes. excuse my stupidity.
mike.

 

[cigrmaster]

I know for a fact that many of the top artisans hand pick their briar from the best available sources. There are many different price levels for briar and the guys making the better pipes pay top dollar for their briar. There are suppliers who develop relationships with the artisans and they will get the pick of the litter so to speak and that is one reason as to why an artisan pipe will smoke better than a factory made one. Some people are paying over 100.00 for one piece of briar some guys are paying 60.00, factories might pay 5 or 10. There are so many different levels of briar. Some artisans age their briar for years before carving it, that is expensive but it is another reason they are producing better smoking pipes.
If you were an artisan would you be advertising your best briar sources so that the competition for the best briar was even more than it is now? Now some people will talk up their briar, for example the guy who owns Upshall brags about how they use 100 year old Grecian briar, some believe this many do not. Another guy talks about his 60 year old Red Algerian Briar, some think it is bullshit, others do not. Julius Vesz brags about his dead root briar so there are artisans talking about briar but most do not.

 

[hfearly]

You can see in a documentary how Savinelli has a giant warehouse where yhey age and hand select their briar blocks.
Personally, I'd define briar quality by a number of characteristics:
1) Location from where in the burl the block was cut, because it directly impacts

2) Wood density (high quality pipes are amazingly lightweight even in group 4 and 5 sizes!)

3) Wood hardness

4) Wood cleanliness (absence of sandpits, knots, stones, ...)

5) Graining (how close together, depth, straightness)

6) Curing (high quality briar is virtually free of resins and tannins)
Given that the price range at the source (burl cutters) for a briar block can range from 10$ for a low quality block to 60$ for a really nice straight grained plateaux, I don't consider it surprising that a higher quality pipe is more expensive. Even more so as finding a hidden flaw in an expensive block so it has to be thrown out really hits the profit margins a hel lot more than screwing up a 10$ block.