What is Frog Morton
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Bob: didn't Greg Pease blow apart the supposed Balkan-English distinction a while back? Balkan Sobranie has quite a bit of Virginia leaf, and London Mixture, sort of a quintessential 'English' blend, has very little. I've taken on his 'latakia blend' umbrella to cover all this, and then describe if it's oriental- or Virginia-forward.
I think of Blackpoint, for instance, as fitting into the 'Balkan blend' tradition, and it includes a little perique. The whole thing is so arbitrary that I think 'latakia blend' is really the only accurate way to describe it, and then list components and influence.
I think of Blackpoint, for instance, as fitting into the 'Balkan blend' tradition, and it includes a little perique. The whole thing is so arbitrary that I think 'latakia blend' is really the only accurate way to describe it, and then list components and influence.
Escioe:
Yes, Greg wrote an article awhile back in which he laid out his reasons for thinking the term "Balkan" meaningless. Some agreed with him, some didn't. The term "latakia blend" can certainly be used, but many of us have gotten used to "Balkan" and seem capable of using it without much in the way of actual confusion. Personally, I grew up using the terms 'light English," "medium English," and "heavy English," and I wish we still used them because I think they do a better job of describing what needs to be described….But whatever. I am kind of curious as to whether a sea change in how we describe these blends is going to occur because of an article that Greg wrote!
Yes, Greg wrote an article awhile back in which he laid out his reasons for thinking the term "Balkan" meaningless. Some agreed with him, some didn't. The term "latakia blend" can certainly be used, but many of us have gotten used to "Balkan" and seem capable of using it without much in the way of actual confusion. Personally, I grew up using the terms 'light English," "medium English," and "heavy English," and I wish we still used them because I think they do a better job of describing what needs to be described….But whatever. I am kind of curious as to whether a sea change in how we describe these blends is going to occur because of an article that Greg wrote!
Haroldt:
People have been debating how to classify Frog Morton for a long time now. I simply describe it as a sweet medium English. Some call it a crossover or even an aromatic, but I'm loathe to do so because I don't believe there is any kind of an aromatic topping or casing added! If there is, I certainly can't detect it. I suspect From Morton's secret has nothing to do with additives but rather everything to do with stoving… But I could certainly be wrong!
In any case, I also don't agree that it's necessarily a "beginner's English" or English with "training wheels" or something. I think that Frog Morton might well have as much as 50 percent latakia, which puts it more in the category of "lat bomb" LOL. In any case, it IS a nice latakia blend that both beginners and more "advanced" smokers can enjoy.
Unfortunately, it suffers from the same malady that all McClelland's English blends suffer from -- it is ridiculously mild. McClelland makes a half-dozen English blends that taste like heaven to my taste buds, yet I can't really enjoy them because they are all so mild I get no satisfaction from them whatsoever -- it's the pipe smoker's equivalent of a tease.
People have been debating how to classify Frog Morton for a long time now. I simply describe it as a sweet medium English. Some call it a crossover or even an aromatic, but I'm loathe to do so because I don't believe there is any kind of an aromatic topping or casing added! If there is, I certainly can't detect it. I suspect From Morton's secret has nothing to do with additives but rather everything to do with stoving… But I could certainly be wrong!
In any case, I also don't agree that it's necessarily a "beginner's English" or English with "training wheels" or something. I think that Frog Morton might well have as much as 50 percent latakia, which puts it more in the category of "lat bomb" LOL. In any case, it IS a nice latakia blend that both beginners and more "advanced" smokers can enjoy.
Unfortunately, it suffers from the same malady that all McClelland's English blends suffer from -- it is ridiculously mild. McClelland makes a half-dozen English blends that taste like heaven to my taste buds, yet I can't really enjoy them because they are all so mild I get no satisfaction from them whatsoever -- it's the pipe smoker's equivalent of a tease.
I love the smell of burning frogs in the morning! ;-) --- He had me going in that video. I will definitely use that story.
The first time I smelled Latakia, it smelled like a barnyard to me but I loved the flavor so much that I now find the aroma amazingly pleasant... just smelling it makes my mouth water!
The first time I smelled Latakia, it smelled like a barnyard to me but I loved the flavor so much that I now find the aroma amazingly pleasant... just smelling it makes my mouth water!
I agree about light, medium, and heavy, though I would probably say latakia blend rather than English. It's just funny that the archetype of Balkan blends, Balkan Sobranie Original Smoking Mixture, had lots of Virginias in it, while most people use Balkan blend to mean something where the Virginias play third fiddle to latakia and oriental leaves. But then I studied philosophy as an undergrad, so this sort of useless hairsplitting is sort of my bread and butter.
Regarding Frog Morton: I think crossover blend works. I don't care for them, really, but to me sweet and latakia don't play well together. Something like Maltese Falcon is too sweet for me, let alone something where the latakia is actually deliberately sweetened.
escioe:
I know opinions differ about what constitutes a Balkan blend. I know Russ Ouellette includes burley in blends that H&H describe as Balkans. Others include perique. But my personal definition -- and the only Balkans I smoke -- are Virginia-based blends in which the orientals and the latakia are both at the forefront. In my experience, those are the only styles of Balkans that develop an indescribably rich creaminess in the smoke. Other ingredients lessen that affect or add unwanted (for me) flavors to the mix.
Not that I have anything against perique or burley or cavendish! I just don't want them in anything I'm smoking that is described as or named a "Balkan" blend. That's nitpicking, probably. But, for me, it would be the same as someone stating that a blend is a straight Virginia, but then they've added perique to it. It's either a straight Virginia or it's a VA/perique; it can't be both.
Bob
I know opinions differ about what constitutes a Balkan blend. I know Russ Ouellette includes burley in blends that H&H describe as Balkans. Others include perique. But my personal definition -- and the only Balkans I smoke -- are Virginia-based blends in which the orientals and the latakia are both at the forefront. In my experience, those are the only styles of Balkans that develop an indescribably rich creaminess in the smoke. Other ingredients lessen that affect or add unwanted (for me) flavors to the mix.
Not that I have anything against perique or burley or cavendish! I just don't want them in anything I'm smoking that is described as or named a "Balkan" blend. That's nitpicking, probably. But, for me, it would be the same as someone stating that a blend is a straight Virginia, but then they've added perique to it. It's either a straight Virginia or it's a VA/perique; it can't be both.
Bob
Just smoked some Cellar for the first time a few days ago...very nice...found it almost too sweet. Can't believe that aging in whiskey barrels can do that...but gotta believe what they say. Does anyone really know the secret to what makes this blend and the other FM's so freak'in good. Technically Cellar is the same as the original Frog Morton...but with the barrel stave...or whiskey flavour. It is a latakia and VA blend. @doctorhoss mentions maybe how they stove it and prepare the leaf...wonder if that's it. Damn good tobacco though. Think the original Froggy is still my favourite.
Ragnar wrote "Just ordered my first tin of FM Cellar. I hope its good!"
You won't be disappointed and Lagertha will love the room note. :D
I really enjoy Cellar and the original FM. I don't think I will reorder On The Town and Across The Pond when I am done with what I have.
You won't be disappointed and Lagertha will love the room note. :D
I really enjoy Cellar and the original FM. I don't think I will reorder On The Town and Across The Pond when I am done with what I have.
Wanting to give this Frogmorton a go I asked my local B&M (Redruth, Cornwall) if he could get hold of any only to hear it is not allowed to be imported into the UK as it is supposed to contain 'nasties' that our glorious government :crazy: has deemed unfit for human consumption! Yet it is called an 'English blend'!
So, Frogmorton-less I shall have to remain :crying:
Regards,
Jay.
So, Frogmorton-less I shall have to remain :crying:
Regards,
Jay.
I'd refrain from designating a tobacco a beginner blend. I enjoy several full-strength blends and single-leaf tobaccos and smoke mostly non-aromatics. However, a nicely worked out "transitional" blend, or for my purposes an aromatic that is still tobacco forward, can be just what I want on a particular occasion. The idea that you graduate from very wet flavored sweet aromatics, to more subtle aromatics, to mild non-aromatics, then to full-stength blends only, really seems, well, anal to me. These aren't tickets to be punched, like advancing a career. Smoking at its best is an art and there's room for all kinds of departures, returns, variations and permutations. Sometimes people follow that prescribed path, but mostly they don't. So, what's a Frog Morton? Most people find them a pretty good smoke.
The only Frog Morton blend that has a flavoring is Frog Morton's Cellar. That's the only "crossover blend" in the lineup.
The others are Balkan/English blends.
The others are Balkan/English blends.
Great necropost. I freaking love Frog Morton Original. It's my favorite blend and one I keep returning to. I just received the Froggy Went a Courtin' Sampler from P&C and am eager to try out the other blends. This weekend I wasted my smoking time on Prince Albert and Carter Hall. Bleh. They build a nice cake and my new briars need them I guess. But I can't wait to return to Frog.
A question regarding the "Across the Pond" tin. The artwork I see a lot of places online differs from the one I received. Did they change the label? Which is the newer label and which is the older label? Just check out these results to see what I mean:
https://www.google.com/search?q=frog+morton+across+the+pond+review&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivrKCTl4fMAhWJmoMKHatpAvIQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=633
A question regarding the "Across the Pond" tin. The artwork I see a lot of places online differs from the one I received. Did they change the label? Which is the newer label and which is the older label? Just check out these results to see what I mean:
https://www.google.com/search?q=frog+morton+across+the+pond+review&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivrKCTl4fMAhWJmoMKHatpAvIQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=633
You might want to contact Rich at 4noggins.com, he has a lot of experience shipping out of the USA. When I smoked Frog, I liked their Frog on the Bayou best.
I know this is an old thread, but since it has already been resurrected:
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I didn't find a huge difference between FMC (the baby crossover of Englishes) and Nightcap (the Grandaddy). FMC wasn't much of a "crossover" in that the aromatic component of it wasn't even initially discernible to me. When I opened the tin I smelled the latakia and thought, "Holy smokes! What have I done! This smells terrible."
Then I smoked it, and actually enjoyed it. Now it is one of my more enjoyable smokes, despite that initial encounter with latakia being a little traumatizing. It was only after smoking it a few times that I could discern any aromatic component, since the latakia is quite the dominant taste toward the beginning of the smoke.
Then I ordered Dunhill Nightcap and expected it to be in another universe than FMC, since everyone said FMC was some mild/crossover/beginner blend.
I certainly found Nightcap stronger than Frog Morton's, but it wasn't THAT much stronger. For me, any presence of Latakia seems fairly dominating, so a little or a lot doesn't necessarily make as much difference as one might think.
I think had I jumped straight to Nightcap instead of FMC, my reaction would have been the same: initial horror at the tin note, only to enjoy the smoke. I actually find the main difference to be that the latakia in Nightcap persists throughout the entire bowl, instead of disappearing as it does in FMC.
Obviously, they are very different smokes--but my point is that a beginner like me who had never tasted latakia couldn't really discern those differences, and even when I did it wasn't those differences that influenced whether or not I liked the blend. Ultimately it was just a question of whether I'd acquire a taste for latakia upon smoking it or not.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I didn't find a huge difference between FMC (the baby crossover of Englishes) and Nightcap (the Grandaddy). FMC wasn't much of a "crossover" in that the aromatic component of it wasn't even initially discernible to me. When I opened the tin I smelled the latakia and thought, "Holy smokes! What have I done! This smells terrible."
Then I smoked it, and actually enjoyed it. Now it is one of my more enjoyable smokes, despite that initial encounter with latakia being a little traumatizing. It was only after smoking it a few times that I could discern any aromatic component, since the latakia is quite the dominant taste toward the beginning of the smoke.
Then I ordered Dunhill Nightcap and expected it to be in another universe than FMC, since everyone said FMC was some mild/crossover/beginner blend.
I certainly found Nightcap stronger than Frog Morton's, but it wasn't THAT much stronger. For me, any presence of Latakia seems fairly dominating, so a little or a lot doesn't necessarily make as much difference as one might think.
I think had I jumped straight to Nightcap instead of FMC, my reaction would have been the same: initial horror at the tin note, only to enjoy the smoke. I actually find the main difference to be that the latakia in Nightcap persists throughout the entire bowl, instead of disappearing as it does in FMC.
Obviously, they are very different smokes--but my point is that a beginner like me who had never tasted latakia couldn't really discern those differences, and even when I did it wasn't those differences that influenced whether or not I liked the blend. Ultimately it was just a question of whether I'd acquire a taste for latakia upon smoking it or not.
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