My youngest daughter lived in Seattle for a while, but then she decided to move back to the United States and settled in Decatur, Georgia.
Washington State Is Not Messing Around- Online Retailer Fined $65,000
- Thread starter Akousticplyr
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Point by point:
1. I quite understood that your quoting the Declaration of Independence was calculated. Nothing earlier in the thread point to this and you made it so I couldn't miss it by quoting me at the beginning. I decided it would be fun to play.
2. I did not bring up any other of the Founding Fathers as they did not author the Declaration of Independence. But as we know, they were of many minds about severing relations with Britain, as well as extending the right to self determination.
3. One could imply this since you chose to quote from a document that essentially declares the colonies to be in rebellion from its government. Ever seen that happen without a call to arms? Come on, you know better. If there's one truism of human interaction it's that people are loath to give up an unearned advantage. I did not suggest that you were in favor of the people of Washington State rising up in armed rebellion. As a matter of idle curiosity, are you? Don't be disingenuous. I put nothing in your mouth.
4. Not Wong & Wrong. I can't speak to North Carolina as I don't live there, but In California we have a long populist tradition of adding Initiatives, generally referred to as Propositions, to the ballot of most, if not all, elections at the State level. If they pass they have the force of law and can, and do, overturn laws enacted in Sacramento. Prop 13, the Jarvis initiative, began the whole tax revolt in the US. This last election had 12 of them, and one of them, prop 22, overturned a state law that required businesses like Uber and Lyft to classify their drivers as employees rather than independent contractors. Others expand or contract the reach of laws passed in the state legislature.
Tag, you're it.
This^^^
I don’t believe there are any of the 50 states that allow illegal activity based on personal like or dislike of their respective state statutes, or ignorance of the law for that matter.
Hard to understand any real grounds for righteous indignation here as the risks are clear as are the consequences.
Apparently the company has decided to bite the bullet, pay the fine and amend their business practices to comply. This was the expedient route they evidently chose at the advice of whatever legal council they decided to retain I imagine.
To allude to or overtly cast them as victims seems a curious position to take without apparent cause.
However this thread, with its many twists of logic and passion, is definitely an entertaining and fitting entry in the annuals of 2020.
Rock on brothers.
Well, it is after 10:00pm on this coast and I do have to get some rest, so let me just touch on the things that matter to me. From my point of view and using your words, your argument doesn’t line up, but that might be the point. If you were simply talking about the context of the DOI itself and the outsized use of it by me on such a trivial issue, I simply would have said “touché” and moved on. But you chose to go off on a rant and slandered a great man - a founder of this country by whose intellect mankind was freed from 5000 years of fruitless servitude - and along with him, all the founders who had a hand in writing that history altering document. What was calculated by me was feeling that by me mentioning the DOI, that you (or someone) would invariably call Thomas Jefferson a racist (which, much to my surprise, happened); that is why I made sure to make allusions to the other authors. No one can reasonably call either of them racist? Discredit the author, discredit the document...no?
When you wrote “an option not open the Colonials of the 18th century with regard to Britain, an option provided to us BY those 18th century Colonials, the right to vote.” I thought that you were talking about every citizen, in every state of the United States...but it seems you were only talking about Californians? I can assure you that my reference to North Carolina is 100% factual, but not relevant because I misunderstood you? For that I apologize; but you really should pay attention to what happened in North Carolina, as it could spread to where you live.
As to the rest, I don’t like the taste of Red Herring nor do I enjoy fighting Straw Men. And, yes, a lot could have been implied by my use of the DOI, but the the burden is on the intellect of the reader to properly infer the spirit of what was written by the context of the whole of the subject. At best, for anyone to call for revolution over not being able to sell tobacco in a certain state is simply retarded (guilty as charged) and plain evil and anarchist at worst. My only hope was to convey (in the strongest possible way) that we are free people living in a free country and so long as we are not infringing on anyone else’s rights, to please leave us the hell alone! (But you know this already as you are a provocateur of the most fun kind and enjoy when people get enmeshed in your web.)
Now, we could sit up all night like two pharisees straining out gnats and shallow camels, but lets just agree that it’s been all great fun? If not, we can pick up on this tomorrow and surely get this thread closed down. ? Gam Zu L’Tovah.
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But what Pennsylvania law has been broken? As was mentioned before, Washington has no standing to enforce their law in Pennsylvania.
A similar dispute is before the SCOTUS (New Hampshire v Massachusetts) where Massachusetts asserts that non-residents (New Hampshire in this case) must pay Massachusetts income tax on work that was performed outside of Massachusetts. New Hampshire, and other states that have filed briefs, state that this is unconstitutional.
No; Massachusetts is claiming that work physically done in New Hampshire — for Massachusetts businesses — would had to be done locally in Massachusetts had it not been done remotely (and my aunt would be my uncle if she was a man), and therefore subject to Massachusetts income tax.
OK, so it's a business income tax, not personal income, or do I still have it wrong?
Just when it appeared we had many emotions running along with the potential for some heated arguments, you go and F it up by inserting facts and reason. I hope you're proud of yourself.
I'm happy to let this go. Life's too short.
But, like you, I'll touch briefly on a couple of your points and then I'm done.
Five truthful words is not a rant.
Like a lot of the landed gentry of that period, Jefferson was land rich and cash poor. Once he realized the profit to be made selling people, he made a business of it, keeping meticulous records of his transactions and profits in ledgers. These ledgers were not released by the Jefferson Foundation until the early years of this century. You can view them if you so desire. Their reason was to provide a more realistic and balanced portrait of the man. There is no slander, only recognition of reality. But if you want to make baseless accusations of slander, be sure to include the Jefferson Foundation, since they published those ledgers.
Was Jefferson a great man? Well, he pledged his life and his honor to the cause of creating a new nation, so in that respect, very much so. But like a lot of "great men" he was a series of paradoxes.
As for the 5000 years of fruitless servitude, that's true if you ignore a few things, just for starters, like the Roman Republic, Ancient Greece where democracy was born, the Magna Carta, the rise of a merchantile class, the Renaissance, the creation of a Constitutional Monarchy, the development of a bi-cameral legislature, Capitalism, Roman law, which begat British law, which in turn begat the system of law in America that we have today.
When you wrote “an option not open the Colonials of the 18th century with regard to Britain, an option provided to us BY those 18th century Colonials, the right to vote.” I thought that you were talking about every citizen, in every state of the United States...but it seems you were only talking about Californians?
Since California wasn't a part of the US in the 18th century, but a part of Mexico, not likely.
Our right to place initiatives on the ballot is part of the California Constitution. It would require a vote of the people to change that. Not likely to happen.
If Washington State has similar law, a concerned group can offer a proposition to change the regulations regarding shipping online sales of tobacco to residents of the state.
Be phariseeing you around the forums. Ciao.
Although its obviously not easy to uproot yourself at least you have the option in the US to move to a state that halfway respects the rights of its citizens. Oh wait Washington is fine with letting people shoot heroin publicly in the streets just not ordering pipe tobacco on the internet. Apparently their definition of liberty is just a little backwards from everyone elses.
so they paid less then 15 bucks per product sold to the state. That almost makes it a minor gamble to sell to people in Washington state. Especially depending on how much those products earned the site in the first place.
The direct initiative process for passing laws was an invention of the progressive era in the late 19th and early part of the 20th century. It exists mainly in the western states. All the states along the Pacific ocean - CA, OR and WA - have it.
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