Warren Buffett Unloading Apple

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karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,476
9,338
Basel, Switzerland
I'm sure most of you'll have seen the news. You probably also saw that Friday was pretty damn bad for stocks, as has been the whole of July.

Starting from his latest shareholder letter, I can't shake the thought that he's gearing for a crash. Points from the 2023 shareholder letter (bolding is my own):

"Such instant panics won’t happen often – but they will happen. Berkshire’s ability to immediately respond to market seizures with both huge sums and certainty of performance may offer us an occasional large-scale opportunity"

He has huge sums at hand, has had for years but the Apple sale made them even bigger.

"I believe Berkshire can handle financial disasters of a magnitude beyond any heretofore experienced. This ability is one we will not relinquish. When economic upsets occur, as they will, Berkshire’s goal will be to function as an asset to the country – just as it was in a very minor way in 2008-9 – and to help extinguish the financial fire rather than to be among the many companies that, inadvertently or otherwise, ignited the conflagration."
"Your company also holds a cash and U.S. Treasury bill position far in excess of what conventional wisdom deems necessary. During the 2008 panic, Berkshire generated cash from operations and did not rely in any manner on commercial paper, bank lines or debt markets. We did not predict the time of an economic paralysis but we were always prepared for one. "

Indeed Buffett helped stabilise the situation in 2008-2009, there's a famous interview where he glosses over how AIG and Lehman Brothers came begging for help, and didn't get it, while the interview does not say that Goldman Sachs also did, got help, and Buffett got a super sweet deal out of it.

In the same letter he makes the point that there are very few companies that can move the needle for Berkshire, and those that could have been "endlessly picked over by them and others". That could change in a crash. Perhaps he's setting himself up for a last hurrah, or setting up his successors for success, or both. Of course this is Buffett, every word he's said the last 30+ years has also been "endlessly picked over", he knows that too, so it's naive to think his letters aren't carefully written - there's economy in the writing, I have read many of the past letters too and while the tone and style is the same, there doesn't seem to be any clear messaging, just a bit about numbers, a bit of Omaha reverence, some history/anecdote about a company/deal/person, reiterating how critical (re)insurance is and how lucky he was that Ajit Jain walked in one day in 1986 and performance vs the S&P500, whereas this time there were specific messages.

In any case, as a very very small investor all I can think is "brace brace", do nothing rather than holding fast, and lament the fact my own BRK.B position is so small, however the plan is to always add to it, likely leave to my kids.

Edit: of course this could well be a small correction, and I could be reading too much into it because I am new to investing, but my gut tells me "old man called the top, it's going to go downhill soon".

Edit 2: seems in investment fora and other communities many people are defecating themselves, looking into fixed income, thinking of selling etc, the fact of the matter is that when tech stocks have been priced to not just meet, not just beat but SMASH expectations I can expect many toys being thrown out of many prams the second this doesn't happen. And it can't happen for ever.

Edit 3: a nice quote is "money is made in bull markets, fortunes are made in bear markets" and "be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy" (from Buffett - what characteristics does he himself show now?).
 
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karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,476
9,338
Basel, Switzerland
Buffet's annual report is filled with humor along with his investment philosophy. Great reading. Great education.
Fully agree, I've actually bought the book of Buffett's unedited letters, never a dull moment with it :)

Also bought another book called "University of Berkshire Hathaway", with short summaries of 30 years' shareholder meetings.
 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
25,637
29,118
Carmel Valley, CA
Trying to become the 21st Century's J.P. Morgan?

Glad to know he's so civic minded. And what an investor! Most can only dream to emulate a tiny portion of what he's achieved.
 

karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,476
9,338
Basel, Switzerland
Trying to become the 21st Century's J.P. Morgan?

Glad to know he's so civic minded. And what an investor! Most can only dream to emulate a tiny portion of what he's achieved.
Dear Mr Mod, I am not quite sure if you're being sarcastic or not! Warren Buffett has pledged spectacular amounts for philanthropy, and is indeed a legend investor, but behind the folksy, kindly grandpa is a sharp as a tack stone cold killer who'll likely go to war for every last penny he can get. Talking about "firefighting for America" is nice to read, but the last time he did he was extremely handsomely rewarded for it by getting deals nobody else could - not even your government.

And, again, Bill Gates's foundation does amazing things, but Bill Gates himself, though turning into a nerdy grandpa, is also a stone cold killer :)

As was JP Morgan ;)
 

Sigmund

Lifer
Sep 17, 2023
2,326
20,977
France
Buffet isn’t impressed by pretty ideas. My guess is the move is because for a good while apple growth is gonna slow.

Think about it, how many people stand in line for their new stuff? When did they last fo anything interesting? AI is a dream and who know when it will be profitable. It will cost a fortune first.

To me it seems like a good time to take a profit and reinvest in something that grows.
 
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kcghost

Lifer
May 6, 2011
14,549
24,325
77
Olathe, Kansas
Buffet is a pretty savvy investor and most of us would benefiting his advice. The problem we have is how do we relate our pitiful sums against his gazillions of dollars.
 

karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,476
9,338
Basel, Switzerland
@Servant King ”you can get all the gold ever mined and make a 60-foot cube, in 1000 years it won’t have grown or produced dividends or anything else, you can fondle it but it won’t care” Warren Buffett. He earns billions risk free lending money to the US govt, why bother with shiny metal ;)

@Sigmund that’s an optimistic view, either way it had a great run, cutting a big chunk with stellar profit.

@kcghost by doing as he says, not as he does: basically investing in a mix of low cost, broadly diversified index funds and bonds ;)

Let’s see. The media circus of the last few days subsided.
 
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Servant King

Lifer
Nov 27, 2020
4,487
25,246
39
Frazier Park, CA
www.thechembow.com
@Servant King ”you can get all the gold ever mined and make a 60-foot cube, in 1000 years it won’t have grown or produced dividends or anything else, you can fondle it but it won’t care” Warren Buffett. He earns billions risk free lending money to the US govt, why bother with shiny metal ;)
"Gold is money. Everything else is just credit." -JP Morgan

And I'd hardly call lending to an entity that has a 35 trillion dollar debt balance "risk free."
 

Jbrewer2002

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 17, 2023
664
4,868
Somerset Ohio
It seems apple isn’t what it used to be. Could it just be the right time to get out of a stock for a company that isn’t as innovative as it used to be when Steve Jobs was still alive.
 

GardenStateoftheArtBriar

Might Stick Around
Jul 29, 2024
56
81
New Jersey
Albeit Entertaining and rich - I find the guy to be quite deceptive and the fact that many investors follow the money so to speak is kind of flawed. From my understanding, Warren made a lot of his money trading silver ahead of the crowd while denying that he was holding any such positions. The marketplace can get ugly. Always found his obsessive child like love affair with drinking Coca Cola strange as well. My half a cent:col:
 
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karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,476
9,338
Basel, Switzerland
It seems apple isn’t what it used to be. Could it just be the right time to get out of a stock for a company that isn’t as innovative as it used to be when Steve Jobs was still alive.
Apple's stock was trading between $13-14 when Steve Jobs died (just checked), and is trading at $207 right now. Perhaps he put the foundations for Tim Cook to take it to the moon and it's just running out of steam, but in terms of pure stock appreciation Apple didn't do all that much while Jobs was alive.

Always found his obsessive child like love affair with drinking Coca Cola strange as well.
It's an obsession of advertising too which seems really pedantic! Him and Munger had a can/bottle of coke featuring very prominently any time they were filmed/photographed. If you go into Berkshire's laughably simple website you'll find a link "A message from Warren Buffett", if you click it and expect to read something interesting you'll simply find an add for Geico and Borsheim's.
 
Aug 11, 2022
2,524
19,673
Cedar Rapids, IA
It seems apple isn’t what it used to be. Could it just be the right time to get out of a stock for a company that isn’t as innovative as it used to be when Steve Jobs was still alive.

It's worth noting that BH isn't getting out of Apple stock entirely; Buffett expects it to remain their biggest holding. They've been selling off shares of other companies, too, it just seems that Apple is the most "newsworthy" of them.
 

Alejo R.

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 13, 2020
938
1,977
49
Buenos Aires, Argentina.
It seems apple isn’t what it used to be. Could it just be the right time to get out of a stock for a company that isn’t as innovative as it used to be when Steve Jobs was still alive.
Apple is a company whose value is based in part on being a status symbol for the middle classes. On selling aspirational products. And it has strong competitors. If the numbers published last week indicate a possible recession in the United States that could negatively impact employment, a company like Apple might not fare as well in its next financial statements.
 

VDL_Piper

Lifer
Jun 4, 2021
1,294
12,922
Tasmania, Australia
I must say there were signs aplenty that this was incoming and to be fair if you're not a trader then you have no way to manage risk. Trading is risk management, investing is "hold and hope" that the market does the right thing by you. Me, well I chase dividend. I look for companies that will reward me with a great return fully franked. I wait until the last moment possible (dividend closure date) and sell as soon as I've been paid, these moments occur twice a year.
Market is very jittery now and I'm inclined to think as I look at the charts that this correction isn't over quite yet! Invest safely.
 
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karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,476
9,338
Basel, Switzerland
I must say there were signs aplenty that this was incoming and to be fair if you're not a trader then you have no way to manage risk. Trading is risk management, investing is "hold and hope" that the market does the right thing by you.
Buying and holding through thick and thin is supported by literally hundreds of years of (patchy) data, including about 200 years of accurate, high-quality data from stock exchanges of several countries (US, UK, Netherlands come to mind). Agree on the inability to manage risk if one is not a trader.

Me, well I chase dividend. I look for companies that will reward me with a great return fully franked. I wait until the last moment possible (dividend closure date) and sell as soon as I've been paid, these moments occur twice a year.
Market is very jittery now and I'm inclined to think as I look at the charts that this correction isn't over quite yet! Invest safely.
I am a recent convert to the logic of dividends. Not jumped into targeting dividends, but not shunning them either. It seems in the brainrot that is social media there is a “war” between dividend chasers and haters where each side calls the other stupid, financially illiterate and delusional.

Took me two years of reading and thinking to get there, but I converted all my index funds to their distributing versions (irrelevant for US funds which are always distributing by law), so expecting a few hundred per couple of months, a number that’ll grow over time. Nobody paid a bill with stock appreciation (without selling!), but many people did with dividends.

On your point though, why would you sell a good position in the ex-dividend date? If it’s a solid company why not keep it? Also isn’t this a taxable event (in many countries)?
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,238
47,154
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Stocks go up and stocks go down. Part of this not yet even a correction was brought about by a few things, a disappointing jobs report, concern about a possible recession, especially in the EU, and Japan tightening credit. There's also concern about a widening conflict in the Middle East. Lastly, it's also an election year and markets are notoriously volatile in election years. One last element is that there's a fair amount of leveraging going on, which almost always leads to an implosion when stocks go down.

Apple has had a pretty good run, and it's still more than twice what I paid for it. so I'm not particularly worried, actually not worried at all. We had just seen a market melting up in the couple of weeks before the sell off, so I wasn't surprised by this. Today, averages were up a little bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if the downturn continued.

Corrections are part of the landscape, and they're a healthy part of it. Stocks go down, reach a plateau that's higher than the last plateau, and eventually climb even higher before dropping to the next plateau.

Tech has had a very long run, and no run lasts forever. Other sectors are going to have their opportunity. I'm not savvy enough to invest on my own, so I have an advisor who does it for me, and she's done quite well for me.

I have CDs ending in the month before the election, with a view of investing if the market takes a crap beforehand . If it doesn't pan out, I'll look at my other options. There are always other options. Long term, precious metals might make sense, but there's a LOT of controversy about that.

The secret is simple. Buy low and sell high. The other secret is to not delude yourself that you can time a market. And staying the course long term usually works.