Virginias and Va/Pers

[mkvillaire]

Help me understand where the flavor is in these tobaccos. I have been trying a few different blends, mostly flakes, but I really cannot pick up on the sweet taste of the virginias that everyone so often talks about. For me I find them taste taste similar to cigarettes. I say "similar" because I can definitely tell that there are major differences. The quality of the tobacco being number one. Still though I sometimes get an ashy flavor or cigarette taste from these types of tobaccos, far from the "sweet" taste I always read about. Any advice on how I can get the most out of these tobaccos would be appreciated.

 

[pstlpkr]

Don't feel frustrated about not picking up on the flavors right away.

A little knowledge about what exactly you are smoking can and will help.

You probably are tasting the nuances but haven't trained your palate to pick up on them yet.

Not to worry, it comes with time.
Try using Wikipedia with these tobacco searches:

Latakia (Oriental)

Virginia

Cavendish

Burley

Perique
It will give you rudimentary education about the differences between the tobaccos and will help.

Take it from a codger that couldn't identify the differences either, until I got a little edgamacation.

YMMV

::

 

[mkvillaire]

Thanks Lawrence, I will do that. One thing I will say is that I do find them satisfying as I am a former cigarette smoker. Sometimes I get a Peppery sensation on the back of the tongue or a little nic kick, which I tend to enjoy.

 

[sparroa]

I'm not saying this is a reason for you, but I find it affects my ability to enjoy the subtler tastes of VA:
Is there much sugar in your diet? If you are eating/drinking fruit, desserts, white breads, beer, soda, sweet coffee or tea anytime soon before smoking then that impairs your ability to detect and appreciate the subtler sugars found in a good Virginia.
The same thing holds true for smoking an artificially sweetened aromatic on the same day as a straight VA - in my opinion that straight VA is never going to be as sweet as if you smoked them exclusively for 3 or 4 days. Know what I mean?
I have nothing to back this up but personal experience - but it holds true for me. That's why I often enjoy the early morning first smoke of the day most of all, because I haven't had a chance to "taint" my palate yet.
Otherwise, not everybody "gets" straight Virginias and if you don't get straight VA then a va/per might just taste like peppery cigarettes to you so your mileage may vary.
I've found that the more I smoke them and develop my packing/lighting techniques then the more I enjoy them, although I enjoyed VA from the get go.
If you don't mind me asking, what kind of stuff do you like to smoke?

 

[cigrmaster]

mk, which flakes are you talking about? How are you preparing them, what are you smoking them in, are your pipes clean? Flakes in general are very sweet and there are techniques to getting the best out of them. Slow smoking is key as is preparation.

 

[mkvillaire]

Simenon, I guess I'm not really sure what I like yet. That's why I am "experimenting." Like many new smokers I started with aromatics but I am growing tired of them quickly. I relly want something with a little more kick.
Cigrmaster, I have been smoking Dunhill Flake, Orlik Golden Sliced, Escudo Navy Deluxe and I have a tin of SG FVF and Best Brown that I have not opened yet. Mostly rubbing them out. Tried cube cutting last night but just could not keep it lit (I smoke super slow not worring about relights). The problem with repeated relights is that I can't "sip." Fold and stuff method is also tough for me.

 

[sparroa]

+1 I am now pretty much a flake devotee and have found that cleaning my pipes religiously AND cube cutting/gravity filling my flakes has immensely improved my experience with VA.
It also might not hurt to clarify if you've just been sampling small quantities of these blends or if you've been smoking through tins of them. It might take you more than a few pipefuls to get the "hang" of each blend...
I know what you are talking about though; I smoked C&D Bayou Morning which just tasted like straw to me but something like Escudo or St James Flake is a completely different experience although I can SLIGHTLY see the family resemblance. And SJF took me a few bowls to appreciate...

 

[sparroa]

Ok, so you are a former cigarette smoker new to pipes. Gotcha.
Regarding cubecuts, have you experimented with the dryness level beforehand? Cube the flakes, separate the cubes on a paper towel for a few minutes (ranging from 5-20 minutes depending on how moist they are) and then give it a whirl... Also, it takes awhile to get the gravity filling right. Even when I do have "success" packing that way, I don't really get into the smoke until I'm about two thirds down the bowl. It seems like it takes awhile to "click" for me...
I pretty much gave up on fold and stuff. That is a deadend to me. IDK if you are similar or not.
When I am rubbing out Escudo, I prefer to pack it a little tighter than usual. You may just have to fool around with it a bit. Smoke one blend exclusively for a couple days, changing one variable until you find a sweet spot. (So same or similar pipe and the same blend, but switch up drying times/preparation methods/packing looseness-tightness/smoking speed ETC)

 

[foggymountain]

I wasn't much into Vaper blends until I was inspired to try McClelland's St. James Woods. Virginia & Perique as a flake type tobacco, but partly rubbed (separated). It has to be rubbed and dried out before smoking, which is a nuisance, but worth it if you have time. This is a flavorful but subtle smoke which is not too strong or dominant.

 

[cigrmaster]

mk, those are all great blends that should smoke very sweet for you. Try drying them out a little more and when you are cube cutting they should be very small cubes. Are you doing a good charring light and then getting a really good ember going? It sounds like you are not getting the pipe lit properly. How big a pipe are you using? It should not be a huge bowl for flakes. Also there should be some resistance before you light up, check the draw, if it is too loose you will have trouble getting it to smoke properly. When packing the bowl, make sure you pack around the sides as well and check the draw after each level. It should be like sipping through a straw when you are done.

 

[mkvillaire]

I'm using small bowls for flakes. Usually a cob or my Peterson Tankard. I think I may not be packing tight enough. When cube cutting, should I still use the three step method? I will also try getting a better charring light.

 

[sparroa]

I gravity fill it in two steps, with a light tamp after the first one and an even gentler tamp after the second. It also doesn't hurt to sprinkle some fine loose tobacco/scraps from the flake on top as tinder...

 

[cmkiefer]

Mk, I'm in the same boat as you regarding tobacco flavors. I couldn't recognize the subtleties of some blends/varieties. That is, until one night I tried a bowl of straight burley, which was rough (for me). The next night I tried a straight Va and bang! It was like the lights turned on and now I can recognize a Virginia blindfolded. It was a matter of being able to compare and contrast between two "pure" flavors.
My two cents.

 

[cigrmaster]

mk, sorry I didn't see your response last week. I use the three stage packing method with cubes. I also make sure to pack it around the sides at each stage so it is nice and even. Let us know how you are making out.

 

[jah76]

I've found a contrasting flavor really helps me find the edges of a tobacco's flavor. For Virginia's I like coffee or a beer. It really gives my taste challenged tongue a leg up in noticing the sweetness of Virginia's. For me, I notice Virginias the most when I stop trying to.

 

[sparroa]

Keep at it, it comes with time.
I honestly think that keeping your palate "pure" helps but there are so many variables its hard to instruct you on what to do.

 

[garyovich]

cmkiefer,
You are quite right, a few years ago when I was trying to "train" my palette, I kept a jar each of straigh virginia (macB#1 IIRC), straight perique, and straight latakia around. Periodically I would smoke 1/4-1/2 a bowl of each in between other bends. I think this really helped to jumpstart my taste recognition. Not sure I've ever tried straight burley though.

 

[garyovich]

MK,
For what it's worth, I gravity fill when using cube cut method and don't really tamp it down but kind of shake the bowl a bit to make sure everything settles. Because the cubes are still compressed flake, when ignited they expand more than a loose cut tobacco will. From my personal experience, this usually results in a nice pack after the first light. I'm sure this is affected by temperature, altitude, barometric pressure, phase of the moon & tides, and which house saturn is in, so naturally you and others probably have differing experiences.

 

[cortezattic]

Here is a blog by sinistertopiary, an excellent writer and tobacco reviewer, that may help to explain why

some smokers can't get much flavor from Va's and VaPers.

Impugn My Tastebuds, Will You?

 

[cigrmaster]

cortez, thanks for that link, very interesting reading and it does make perfect sense. Latakia is such a strong flavor, I can see how it can alter your taste buds. Also trying to smoke a Virginia in a pipe that has been used for English blends will also have a huge effect on the flavor of the Virginia's.
Gary, I have a few pipes where I have to pack much looser, but in general my pipes can take a pretty good packing, because the drilling is larger. I prefer a wide open air hole.