Vacuum packing tins

[blametony]

Curious what member experiences are with vacuum sealing tins. In my cellaring experience, I've had better results aging the tins with pull off tin lids rather than the short round tins with screw lids. The pull of lid style can swell with age, but I've never had a bad one. Can't say that for the twist style lid. I'm curious if any of you use those vacuum sealing bags to store cellared tins. Some folks have told me that they provide such an airtight seal, that they don't age very well.

Anyone with experience with this?

 

[Shore]

I have been vacuum sealing jars and vacuum sealing tins in food saver bags for a number of years. For some context, I live in central CA, so low humidity but high temp swings. I also house a lot of food saver bag sealed cellared tins in repurposed Igloo ice chests In my shop.

While this may be a controversial opinion, I am a believer in keeping sealed tins in vacuum sealed food saver bags for long term storage. I've never had a tin rust, or lose its seal using this method, and I've had good results with aging. The only things I have done is verify temp and humidity (I use a Govee for this since I use one in my cigar humidor) and every six months or so I physically verify that no tins are bulging. If a tin starts to bulge, I'll pull it out, and reseal it in a new food saver bag. I usually seal two tins of the same blend in one bag...

I cant tell a difference between tin aged in sealed tins with no food saver bag, tin aged in sealed tins with food saver bags, jar aged, jar aged with head space, jar aged with no head space.

I vacuum seal the tins in food saver bags as added insurance against the tin losing its seal, and to ensure if a tin does lose its seal, that the flavors don't start to wander around in the cellar and "contaminate" other tins. For lat blends, I seal them in two food saver bags for this very reason.

I also double seal pouches (Amphora Virginia in particular since it is great as is and will dry quickly in the heat). And I also food saver seal bulk bags like Sutliff 1# bags, PS Bags, Dan Tobacco Bags and Wessex bags. All with good results...My $0.02

 

[blametony]

Thanks for the feedback. Ultimately, I'm trying to decide if I should vacuum seal the tins I want to long-term age. Any issues with tins caving in from the food saver machine? I just bought a tin from someone who had them vacuum sealed and it looks like the tin was crushed on the bottom.

 

[Roach1]

I have used vacuum sealed bags for tins that I have opened and tried a bowl or two and put back in storage. I haven't reopened any will have to wait to see what happens. I have seen any deformation of the tins.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Ya the tins are not 100% fail safe, a lot of people mylar their tins.

My alternative is just to Yeti-dor it all. Not necessarily have to be a Yeti any cooler really, but I got an old fridge I cleaned out and use with a couple of Boveda packs here and there. Change them out once or maybe twice a year.

 

[Shore]

I've not had a tin get damaged from sealing (and that includes when the tins "jump" against one another when I seal them - like I said I normally seal two tins at a time.

It takes a lot to damage a tin, and at least in my case, a FS bag can't pull that kind of vacuum - but maybe there are brands that can. Also, when I seal them, I use the pulse mode which means you can stop sealing if you think something may be going on like damage. This feature is also really important when sealing bags because you don't want to pull so much vacuum that bags get so much pressure on them that they pop, just pull enough vacuum to get most of the air out...

 

[blametony]

I've not had a tin get damaged from sealing (and that includes when the tins "jump" against one another when I seal them - like I said I normally seal two tins at a time.

It takes a lot to damage a tin, and at least in my case, a FS bag can't pull that kind of vacuum - but maybe there are brands that can. Also, when I seal them, I use the pulse mode which means you can stop sealing if you think something may be going on like damage. This feature is also really important when sealing bags because you don't want to pull so much vacuum that bags get so much pressure on them that they pop, just pull enough vacuum to get most of the air out...View attachment 408982
View attachment 408983

Great feedback. Thanks!

 

[pauls456]

I can certainly understand sealing in mylar. But I don't see any added advantage to applying negative pressure to the contents. Sealed is sealed, right?

 

[Searock Fan]

I must have about 200 cans of tobacco with the screw off lids (like Peterson blends) and I've got quite a few rectangular tins with pry off lids. So far I haven't opened any where the tobacco has dried out. If you hear a little "poof" when you open it you can be sure your ok.

 

[sablebrush52]

Curious what member experiences are with vacuum sealing tins. In my cellaring experience, I've had better results aging the tins with pull off tin lids rather than the short round tins with screw lids. The pull of lid style can swell with age, but I've never had a bad one. Can't say that for the twist style lid. I'm curious if any of you use those vacuum sealing bags to store cellared tins. Some folks have told me that they provide such an airtight seal, that they don't age very well.

Anyone with experience with this?

Your experience is almost the opposite of mine. I find the square and rectangular metal tins to be the most dodgy for long term storage, and by that I mean more than a decade. The square and rectangular tins aren't really 100% sealed from the get go. They're slowly leaking, and you can prove that by filling up a Tuppeware container with those tins, sealing the top and leaving it for a week or so. Then pop the top and take a sniff and you'll smell tobacco. There's no mystery to this. The pressure of the seal is uneven around the perimeter, mostly concentrated at the corners. These tins were never meant to hold up for years and years. I've had a number of failures of these tins over the years.

On the other hand, the round screw down tins, because the pressure is even around the perimeter, last quite a bit longer, as do canister tins. Put those in a Tupperware container, seal and leave for a week, and when you pop the top there's no tobacco scent.

Regarding the use of Mylar vacuum sealed over tins, if it isn't metallized Mylar, it's not going to prevent the contents from drying out over time. The reason is that clear Mylar is permeable, while metallized Mylar is not. If you're thinking of cellaring for a couple of decades, use metalllized Mylar. Currently I'm enjoying some 22 year old Haddo's Delight that was packaged in metallized Mylar, and it beats the tins from that era, many of which failed due to corrosion, or left a trace metallic note.

Solutions all depend on just how long you think you will want to cellar something.

 

[khiddy]

I've seen many of the round (Peterson-style) tins in cellar sales that simply have metallized HVAC tape (or parafilm) wrapped around the edge. Parafilm seems to be the gold standard, as it's used in labs as a moisture and oxygen barrier, and it's not terribly expensive for a roll that will seal dozens of tins.

 

[khiddy]

Also, I've seen multiple discussions about metallized vs. non-metallized mylar, and I very much agree with @sablebrush52 that metallized mylar is far preferable due to the impermeability of the combination vs mylar alone. But there are many people who will argue the point until they're blue in the face, so YMMV.

As for me and my house, we rely on metallized mylar.

 

[sablebrush52]

But there are many people who will argue the point until they're blue in the face, so YMMV.

There are always people with a lack of basic knowledge and a pride in being that way.

 

[blametony]

I must have about 200 cans of tobacco with the screw off lids (like Peterson blends) and I've got quite a few rectangular tins with pry off lids. So far I haven't opened any where the tobacco has dried out. If you hear a little "poof" when you open it you can be sure your ok.

I've had good luck with pull off tabs, but I've had a handful of screw off lid tins that did not hiss when opened meaning there was obviously not a good seal.

 

[blametony]

There are always people with a lack of basic knowledge and a pride in being that way.

Always and about anything.

 

[blametony]

Also, I've seen multiple discussions about metallized vs. non-metallized mylar, and I very much agree with @sablebrush52 that metallized mylar is far preferable due to the impermeability of the combination vs mylar alone. But there are many people who will argue the point until they're blue in the face, so YMMV.

As for me and my house, we rely on metallized mylar.

Interesting. I just bought a tin of Margate from someone and I saw that silver foil on the edge. I was curious what that was.

 

[sablebrush52]

I've had good luck with pull off tabs, but I've had a handful of screw off lid tins that did not hiss when opened meaning there was obviously not a good seal.

It happens. Perhaps that’s why Greg Pease reversed his stance on cellaring tobacco in the original tin a few years ago and recommended transferring to jars or Mylar as soon as possible. He cited finding “disappointments” in his own cellar.

It also depends on who’s tins are being used.

 

[Sig]

Your experience is almost the opposite of mine. I find the square and rectangular metal tins to be the most dodgy for long term storage, and by that I mean more than a decade. The square and rectangular tins aren't really 100% sealed from the get go. They're slowly leaking, and you can prove that by filling up a Tuppeware container with those tins, sealing the top and leaving it for a week or so. Then pop the top and take a sniff and you'll smell tobacco. There's no mystery to this. The pressure of the seal is uneven around the perimeter, mostly concentrated at the corners. These tins were never meant to hold up for years and years. I've had a number of failures of these tins over the years.

On the other hand, the round screw down tins, because the pressure is even around the perimeter, last quite a bit longer, as do canister tins. Put those in a Tupperware container, seal and leave for a week, and when you pop the top there's no tobacco scent.

Regarding the use of Mylar vacuum sealed over tins, if it isn't metallized Mylar, it's not going to prevent the contents from drying out over time. The reason is that clear Mylar is permeable, while metallized Mylar is not. If you're thinking of cellaring for a couple of decades, use metalllized Mylar. Currently I'm enjoying some 22 year old Haddo's Delight that was packaged in metallized Mylar, and it beats the tins from that era, many of which failed due to corrosion, or left a trace metallic note.

Solutions all depend on just how long you think you will want to cellar something.

Yep, most blenders want you to smoke the tobacco and buy more. Not save it for eternity. Ive talked to many codgers who say cellaring tobacco wasn't as popular 40-50 years ago. Most pipers bought a tin or pouch, smoked it, and bought another.
Newer blenders like C&D know that aging tobacco is a thing, so they use tins and a processs to aid in long term storage....loosely packed tins that are truly air tight.
My tin experience has been the same as yours. Round and rectangular dont hold as good as round, or especially the cylinder tins like C&D and Rattrays.

 

[sablebrush52]

Yep, most blenders want you to smoke the tobacco and buy more. Not save it for eternity. Ive talked to many codgers who say cellaring tobacco wasn't as popular 40-50 years ago. Most pipers bought a tin or pouch, smoked it, and bought another.
Newer blenders like C&D know that aging tobacco is a thing, so they use tins and a processs to aid in long term storage....loosely packed tins that are truly air tight.
My tin experience has been the same as yours. Round and rectangular dont hold as good as round, or especially the cylinder tins like C&D and Rattrays.

I was one of those smokers 50+ years ago, and cellaring was definitely not a thing. The cellaring movement didn't start to gain much steam until the 1980's.

 

[AJL67]

I must have about 200 cans of tobacco with the screw off lids (like Peterson blends) and I've got quite a few rectangular tins with pry off lids. So far I haven't opened any where the tobacco has dried out. If you hear a little "poof" when you open it you can be sure your ok.

Speaking of little poofs, how you dewin?