I’m sure you know this on levels I’ll never realize but I believe this to be true. “You are what you eat“ is a saying that can be applied to crops IMO
Unflavored Burley
- Thread starter rsshreck32
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It is such it's own thing, to the point where liking burly doesn't mean you'll like it or not liking burly doesn't mean you won't like Semois. It's like certain musical acts where all you can say is try it and either you'll get it and it hits you or you'll gag and wonder what's wrong with us guys that love the stuff. For one thing even a straight burly is going to probably be a blend of different burlies and not just one strain. Heck even if it's one single source for the leaf there is a good chance it will be processed in more then one single old school way. Semois (well what's commercially available globally) is a single farm single strain single process product that holds up in interest and complexity with almost any blend. That is impressive by it's self.
Over time, it will. However, seed grown from somewhere else on the first year will be a dead ringer for the way it tastes from where the strain developed. But yeh, the seeds from that first years harvest will change a little. In all tobacco that I have grown the second generation always has a little different flavor, not anything extreme, but slight. The Semois I've grown tastes exactly like the Vincent MANIL, which is where the seedstock I used originated.
I prefer uncased burleys. I don't think it "has" to be cased at all. However, the customer base that has grown a taste for heavily cased commercial tobacco may sway blenders towards feeling obligated to case, but some of us prefer it uncased.
There are other Semois blends besides Vincent Manil's though, and they can taste very different. But I'm not sure if that's because they're blended with other leaf, cased, processed differently or whatever.
But I have definitely had other Semois blends that were very different to Manil tobaccos.
With burleys, more than any of the other leaf varieties, I find that just the cut of the leaf alone can make a large difference in taste. Something about the size of the leaf particles and the way the heat drives the flavonoids out of the leaf is my guess.
That's really interesting - it could well be that. This stuff was quite a different cut, and no where near as dry. Honestly, it was no where near as good.
Where did you get the seedstock for the Semois from, direct from Manil?
We had a member here, Jitterbug, that was an active member of one of the whole leaf tobacco forums. He was growing a lot of different varieties, possibly for the company that was selling whole leaf. He helped me out getting started growing tobacco, and he sent me some seed stock that came from them. He was making contacts with all of the different farmers to collect and grow the different tobaccos himself. Great guy, and he is missed on this forum. However, I think that he is still active on other forums.
Edit: I think that you can contact them also. He didn't make it sound like they were being stingy with the seeds.
I've heard about that. It would be interesting to try the Semois from the few other farms that grow it. And like most leafs if you mix it into a blend as a condiment it does come across quite different then it does straight. Though I find that the Manil stuff grinds into a super incredible nasal snuff that doesn't need to be enhanced like burly does (most burly doesn't really work as snuff nicotine wise without adding salt or Sodium Bicarbonate [or really both] which makes me think that it's got a unique ph as is). Either way I can see how that type of leaf changed for the better the area it was grown in.
Interesting! It's been a long time since I used nasal snuff. Have you ever tried Gawith black snuff? That was what I always had.
It was the Butz Choquin Semois, and I don't remember it being great to be honest, although it was a while ago.
Cool info, Cosmic. I never knew it held enough of the country-of-origin properties to be anywhere close, let alone a dead ringer. But with enough interaction time you could almost say that the land is imprinting its DNA on the plant. Which I guess makes sense to me since gardening has made me understand how the soil is “alive”.
FIVE BROTHERS accept no substitutes ...
Try some unflavored White Burley. I find it to be a pleasant smoke on its own. Further, it was a key ingredient in some of our hobby's best-loved old tobaccos, e.g., Edgeworth Ready-Rubbed.
Five Brothers is one of the straightest and true Burleys worth smoking. Keep in mind, virtually all tobacco leaves are cased in some form, not necessarily coated but cased yes. A skillful blender will not allow the casings to be distinctly tasted unless by intention.
Anyone have knowledge of Maryland 609? I noticed it’s also on whole leaf or whatever the site is. They say it’s burleyesque but more neutral and lighter. Based on this description it sounds like it’d taste like dry hot air. I know straight burley was an acquired taste as in I actually must acclimate my body to appreciate it. I won’t taste any nuance or much of anything at all in burley if I’ve already had some coffees, had a cigar, drank too much alcoholic beverages the night before, or am underhydrated for whatever reason. My mouth must be moist and my palate neutral to really enjoy burley. I’ve found some quick fixes like watermelon and coconut water to prime my cake hole for burley but I really only smoke it when my diet has been healthy. It’s just not rewarding otherwise.
There’s an unfortunate dearth of truly unflavored straight burley on the market.
There’s c&d dark burley. There's c&d white burley. The company sells a couple of blends of the two.
There's the semois, mentioned above.
Or one can go the whole leaf route.
Those, truly, are the only options I know about. I'm reading this thread with interest to see if I learn of others.
Well, people sometimes mention cotton boll twist. I have not yet had the privilege of trying it.
I guess you could say two timer is unflavored, but it's been toasted--twice--thus the name, making it a much milder experience.
I definitely detect a topping on 5 Brothers (it's cocoa or something that brings out the natural cocoa flavor of the burley). I actually don't think the topping is that light either. It just seems light due to the strength of the tobacco. The beauty of five bro's is that unlike so many other codger blends it hasn't had the life toasted out of it. I actually put 5 Bro's in the same category as Crooner: they are those rare straight burleys that have been pleasantly topped without being castrated. This is another underrepresented category in my book. I'd love to know of more.
I think the lack of truly straight uncased untopped burleys is a great shame. I would love to see more offerings of cuts--shags, ropes, plugs. And I suspect burley must have tremendous potential to change in interesting ways with terroir.
There’s c&d dark burley. There's c&d white burley. The company sells a couple of blends of the two.
There's the semois, mentioned above.
Or one can go the whole leaf route.
Those, truly, are the only options I know about. I'm reading this thread with interest to see if I learn of others.
Well, people sometimes mention cotton boll twist. I have not yet had the privilege of trying it.
I guess you could say two timer is unflavored, but it's been toasted--twice--thus the name, making it a much milder experience.
I definitely detect a topping on 5 Brothers (it's cocoa or something that brings out the natural cocoa flavor of the burley). I actually don't think the topping is that light either. It just seems light due to the strength of the tobacco. The beauty of five bro's is that unlike so many other codger blends it hasn't had the life toasted out of it. I actually put 5 Bro's in the same category as Crooner: they are those rare straight burleys that have been pleasantly topped without being castrated. This is another underrepresented category in my book. I'd love to know of more.
I think the lack of truly straight uncased untopped burleys is a great shame. I would love to see more offerings of cuts--shags, ropes, plugs. And I suspect burley must have tremendous potential to change in interesting ways with terroir.
There was a time when any discussion of Burley blends quickly went to Uhle's, for which it's been much loved for many decades. They're well worth checking out.
And while the following recommendation isn't in line with what's being requested, and may offend the ultra orthodox and the Inquisition, check out Watch City Cigar blends, particularly Original Crumb Cut and Deluxe Crumb Cut. Original Crumb Cut isn't topped. These are among my favorite Burley blends.
D&R Two Timer is exceptional, and Mark used it as a component in many of his D&R blends. SPC has it in bulk
And while the following recommendation isn't in line with what's being requested, and may offend the ultra orthodox and the Inquisition, check out Watch City Cigar blends, particularly Original Crumb Cut and Deluxe Crumb Cut. Original Crumb Cut isn't topped. These are among my favorite Burley blends.
D&R Two Timer is exceptional, and Mark used it as a component in many of his D&R blends. SPC has it in bulk
I feel like Maryland is what sings in SG Skiff Mixture and Ashton's Artisan's Blend it has a floral woody taste that you will notice setting apart these light Englishes. It would be interesting to smoke it straight, thanks for the reminder, now it's back on the to do list.
