Understanding Moisture

Log in

SmokingPipes.com Updates

24 Fresh Ropp Pipes
12 Fresh Castello Pipes
5 Fresh Christian Ruetz Pipes
9 Fresh Randy Wiley Pipes
36 Fresh Nørding Pipes

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor

lithicus

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 9, 2023
209
1,136
There's a lot to unpack here. You can't discuss one aspect without discussing the others as they are all intertwined.

Even in a perfect environment with a perfect pipe and perfect tobacco with perfect technique, there will be moisture from combustion. I believe hydrocarbons separate and combine with oxygen creating H2O. There also seems to be a correlation between heat and moisture. The colder a glass of water and the warmer the room, the more condensation forms outside the glass. I presume then with a pipe, the hotter the pipe and cooler the environment, the more moisture forms inside the pipe. Everything being perfect, a cool smoke can be achieved but some degree of heat/warmth cannot be avoided.

A pipe's engineering can also cause condensation and thus moisture from turbulence. Sometimes, this is an undesired consequence of poor engineering. Sometimes this is by design such as a Peterson system pipe or any pipe with a stinger. Proper technique can reduce this condensation significantly, however. I have been able to smoke a Peterson system pipe without anything in the well after I finish. I've also smoked an old Kaywoodie with only the finest condensation forming on the metal stinger; as it understandably would. Wiping the stinger once or twice during the smoke results in a dry pipe when I'm done.


I think everything I've said so far is mostly agreeable. But, there are some things I feel are less understood.

I'm not sure how cuts might play a role in all of this. I'm sure it is not insignificant. But, some claim that wet tobacco will result in a wet smoke; dry your tobacco to reduce moisture. Some claim that tobacco that is too dry will vaporize and burn too hot. Some claim that packing a pipe too loose will cause it to burn as quick as gunpowder. Some claim that packing a pipe too tight will cause the smoker to pull hard to get smoke in the mouth, creating a large ember and creating more heat.

There's obviously a middle ground in all of this. Yet, some smokers can seemingly smoke the wettest tobacco bone dry. Some can sip overly dry tobacco so lightly that it does not create excessive heat. Some can smoke the lightest gravity fills without issue. And some pack their pipe like a jackhammer while keeping the smoke cool and dry.

My question is, given the variety of opinions on these matters, it is all a matter of technique? With enough practice, could one smoke wet tobacco, dry tobacco, gravity fills, and jackhammer packs all the same?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Molvorin
Jan 30, 2020
2,767
8,997
New Jersey
I think most of it has to do with the tendencies of the individual smoker. I generally smoke with the habits I've developed that work for my preferences. Usually that means I stay away from overly wet tobacco (or I dry it down), plugs, dense flakes, etc.

I never really want to modify my habits too much to enjoy something, so I lean towards the things that come right out of the tin that work for me. It's all certainly doable, I just have no interest in doing it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lithicus

Sigmund

Lifer
Sep 17, 2023
4,375
45,627
France
There is a lot of magical thinking in almost every hobby/endeavor. Absolutes are rare.

You are right, there will always be moisture but there is no point in adding insult to injury.

I think paratially dry is a good thing. Ive not been a fan of bone dry. You just have to experiment to find what is best for you.
 

lithicus

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 9, 2023
209
1,136
I think most of it has to do with the tendencies of the individual smoker.
You just have to experiment to find what is best for you.
I definitely am in agreement here. I started experimenting again after nearly 2 years and it has been to my great benefit. I guess I thought maybe there was some truth to some of this packing stuff or the moisture of the tobacco. But, as I gain more experience, I'm starting to believe it's all just a matter of preference. When done properly, any tobacco can be smoked with any packing technique and it will work well. Maybe not for you as an individual, but that is the matter of preference I just mentioned.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fralphog and Sig
Jan 28, 2018
15,665
194,287
68
Sarasota, FL
Conduction heart transfer is significantly greater than convection. Therefore, the temperature of the environment would have minimal impact on the inside bowl temp once the pipe has been smoked for awhile. It's possible moisture would be more likely to form on the outside of the bowl than the inside.

It's kind of a moot point. I believe an expert pipe smoker could better smoke wet tobacco than a novice. But who cares? An expert pipe smoker would know to smoke tobacco at the appropriate moisture level in order to enjoy it the most. I would venture to say the vast majority of experieced pipe smokers prefer their tobacco on the dry side.
 

lithicus

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 9, 2023
209
1,136
Conduction heart transfer is significantly greater than convection. Therefore, the temperature of the environment would have minimal impact on the inside bowl temp once the pipe has been smoked for awhile. It's possible moisture would be more likely to form on the outside of the bowl than the inside.
Ahh interesting!!

An expert pipe smoker would know to smoke tobacco at the appropriate moisture level in order to enjoy it the most. I would venture to say the vast majority of experieced pipe smokers prefer their tobacco on the dry side.
I want to be clear that my question is about moisture left in the pipe after a smoke. Not enjoyment. (Although certainly a wet smoke is not enjoyable.)

I've heard many say they get no moisture in the pipe with tobacco right out of the tin. No dry time necessary. Some have even said this for SG Full Virginia Flake which I found to be soaking wet and nearly impossible to light. I've heard many others suggest drying all tobaccos to an "appropriate level" to avoid a wet smoke. I'm starting to believe this is all a matter of technique. Because it isn't clear to me why wet tobacco, dry tobacco, or tobacco anywhere in between would inherently cause moisture to be left in the pipe any more than the next based on the experience and testimonies of our members. Especially for someone who understands how tobacco moisture might impact the method of packing.

People may "prefer" or "enjoy" or "find more flavor". But, I'm trying to understand how packing and tobacco moisture level impact moisture left in the pipe. I've found methods that work for me. But, I'm starting to believe there is nothing inherent in packing methods or tobacco moisture that result in wet smokes. Only poor smoking technique leads to a wet pipe.

If there is any explanation as to how packing too tightly or too loosely, or how smoking tobacco that is too wet or too dry could leave the pipe wet (assuming proper smoking technique), I'd love to hear some reasoning. I'm genuinely curious and enjoy thinking about these sorts of things 😝
 
Last edited:

BingBong

Lifer
Apr 26, 2024
2,737
12,396
London UK
A public poll in the UK a couple of years ago revealed that the word which makes the majority of people uncomfortable is "moist".

I used to talk dirty to a woman and after a while I'd say "are you.... moist?". And she would say "You. Are. Dis. Gusting!!", so there might be some truth to it. She always came back for more, though.

Anyway, I dislike bone dry tobacco.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
22,956
58,306
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
My question is, given the variety of opinions on these matters, it is all a matter of technique?
Basically, yes.

I can smoke anything successfully, but I’ve been doing it for decades.

My main goal is to obtain the best flavors, so I’ve experimented with moisture levels.

For me, too much moisture masks flavors, so I dry down the tobacco to reveal what’s in a particular blend. Since 99% of what I smoke are Virginias or variants like Va/Pers, that moisture level is just shy of bone dry, not completely dry but dry to the touch when squeezed, while still pliant.

English blends are the easiest to smoke, as the components are flavor bombs. Not much technique required.

Aros are trickier as too much drying reduces the flavor of the topping.

I smoke extremely slowly, which aids in delivering the flavors that I want. When the tobacco is just simmering around the Cherry, almost on the verge of going out, I get the best flavors.
 

lithicus

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 9, 2023
209
1,136
Basically, yes.

I can smoke anything successfully, but I’ve been doing it for decades.
I'm sure I'll continue to get opinions. But this addresses my question directly and confirms what I thought to be true. Thank you!!

For me, too much moisture masks flavors, so I dry down the tobacco to reveal what’s in a particular blend. Since 99% of what I smoke are Virginias or variants like Va/Pers, that moisture level is just shy of bone dry, not completely dry but dry to the touch when squeezed, while still pliant.

English blends are the easiest to smoke, as the components are flavor bombs. Not much technique required.

Aros are trickier as too much drying reduces the flavor of the topping.

I smoke extremely slowly, which aids in delivering the flavors that I want. When the tobacco is just simmering around the Cherry, almost on the verge of going out, I get the best flavors.
I do find this interesting. It's the obvious evolution of my original question. Once you know you can smoke cool and dry regardless of the moisture content, you can start to truly experiment with moisture levels to achieve the most flavor. Sopping wet. Bone dry. If you can smoke all of it well, then you can experiment all over the spectrum. If all of your tobacco has to be bone dry to smoke well, you have no where to go. (Which isn't an issue if you're finding enjoyment out of your smoke anyway.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: sablebrush52

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
22,956
58,306
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I'm sure I'll continue to get opinions. But this addresses my question directly and confirms what I thought to be true. Thank you!!


I do find this interesting. It's the obvious evolution of my original question. Once you know you can smoke cool and dry regardless of the moisture content, you can start to truly experiment with moisture levels to achieve the most flavor. Sopping wet. Bone dry. If you can smoke all of it well, then you can experiment all over the spectrum. If all of your tobacco has to be bone dry to smoke well, you have no where to go. (Which isn't an issue if you're finding enjoyment out of your smoke anyway.)
It's partly about what you want to get out of a smoke. If it's a NIC hit, pretty much anything will work. If it's about uncomplicated relaxation, you may forgo prepping for the most flavor and be happy with a good smoke. If it's about the flavors there's more to know, as different blends and genres of blends require different prep. For example, English/Balkan/Oriental blends are the most forgiving. Aromatics, aside from codger goopers, are tricky to get right. Virginias will school you.

Pipe smokers want different things from the experience, and bring different sensibilities to it. Therefore there will be no lacking of opinions. And just wait until you get into flakes. Everyone has their personal take on the best way to smoke flakes. I know what works best for me.

At the end of the day it comes down to what brings you satisfaction.
 

Sig

Lifer
Jul 18, 2023
2,062
11,676
54
Western NY
My issue with drying tobacco before smoking is that it changes the flavor for me. Some blends more than others. I tend to not dry tobacco, except a few blends that taste better when a bit drier.
But most blends, especially VA based flake, tastes better on the moister side. If you can smoke a folded and stuffed flake of FVF straight from the tin, you know you can smoke through any moisture level. :)
 

lithicus

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 9, 2023
209
1,136
Air humidity will definitely have an effect on the smoke. Smoking a briar outside on a very humid day, especially if it's chilly out, often results in gurgling. For that reason, I prefer a cob in those conditions.
I always smoke indoors, only occasionally stepping outside with the dogs for them to go potty. So, I think I am drastically underestimating the impact. I would like to smoke outdoors more though once I get a better grasp of things. So, this input is greatly appreciated!

My issue with drying tobacco before smoking is that it changes the flavor for me. Some blends more than others. I tend to not dry tobacco, except a few blends that taste better when a bit drier.
But most blends, especially VA based flake, tastes better on the moister side. If you can smoke a folded and stuffed flake of FVF straight from the tin, you know you can smoke through any moisture level. :)
I will one day try drying my tobacco intentionally. But, I've always enjoyed it right out of the tin and didn't want to use dry time as a crutch to learning good technique. I also prefer VAs/Vapers, and also prefer them in flake form. Granted I usually rub it out to basically a ribbon cut. But, I may be like you in that I like them on the moister side. I've been experimenting more lately with fold'n'stuff.

How anyone can smoke fold'n'stuff FVF straight from the tin is well beyond me though 🤣 I feel like I'd have to see it to believe it 😝 I couldn't even get the stuff to light rubbed out. I had to let it dry for like 4 hours... Maybe one day I'll come back to FVF as I do hear it is very good. I was just not a fan. Too much hassle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fralphog

Sobrbiker

Lifer
Jan 7, 2023
6,544
89,361
Casa Grande, AZ
My issue with drying tobacco before smoking is that it changes the flavor for me. Some blends more than others. I tend to not dry tobacco, except a few blends that taste better when a bit drier.
But most blends, especially VA based flake, tastes better on the moister side. If you can smoke a folded and stuffed flake of FVF straight from the tin, you know you can smoke through any moisture level. :)
I’d love to see the effect of freshly opened FVF being used at a slow smoke event.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: Sig and Fralphog

Sig

Lifer
Jul 18, 2023
2,062
11,676
54
Western NY
I always smoke indoors, only occasionally stepping outside with the dogs for them to go potty. So, I think I am drastically underestimating the impact. I would like to smoke outdoors more though once I get a better grasp of things. So, this input is greatly appreciated!


I will one day try drying my tobacco intentionally. But, I've always enjoyed it right out of the tin and didn't want to use dry time as a crutch to learning good technique. I also prefer VAs/Vapers, and also prefer them in flake form. Granted I usually rub it out to basically a ribbon cut. But, I may be like you in that I like them on the moister side. I've been experimenting more lately with fold'n'stuff.

How anyone can smoke fold'n'stuff FVF straight from the tin is well beyond me though 🤣 I feel like I'd have to see it to believe it 😝 I couldn't even get the stuff to light rubbed out. I had to let it dry for like 4 hours... Maybe one day I'll come back to FVF as I do hear it is very good. I was just not a fan. Too much hassle.
Patience....lots of patience young padawan. After the initial light, it stays lit for a looooooong time. ;)
 

Fralphog

Lifer
Oct 28, 2021
2,494
35,291
Idaho
Over the years, my pipe smoking acumen (trial and a lot of error) has grown and improved. I’ve not arrived yet!
For me, The goal of each smoking opportunity is optimal tobacco/ blend flavor.

Along the way the many poor or less than stellar smokes have shaped how I approach each type of baccy.

My understanding is “pressed form” tobaccos like plugs and flakes were created to preserve or enhance long term use and compact for ease of travel. The components were intentionally brought together and compressed with some moisture to help meld them together. Other types of baccy like shag or ribbon cut non aromatic baccy is drier.

It always takes me awhile to figure out a new blend. With all the variables that go into each blend (like type of baccy used, toppings, casings, processing… packaging) each Tobacco blend must be assessed, prepared and packed a “little different”.

All the variety and options is one of the things I enjoy about pipe smoking.
Once you figure out a blend, you begin to have those zen smoking moments that everyone talks about.

I had a boss in the Army that told me, “ if you want it bad, you’ll get it bad”!
The take away for me- poor preparation (the means) will confound the best of techniques and most likely result in a poor/bad outcome (the end)

All the above offered IMHO and nascent (in comparison to others here) knowledge and skill level.

The means will justify the End smoking experience. Enjoy the journey.

P.S.
I got a good laugh thinking about Rodgers Rangers, 19 Standing Orders and some forum fun aka verbal jousting onthe Standing Orders for the Art of Lunting?

- keep your baccy dry
- scour your pipe and keep it clean
- ?