U.S. Congress Bill Would End Catalog/Internet Sales

[perdurabo]

“When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." - I think Twain said that!

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

Maybe, if they can come up with someone to sponsor it. And, having read threads from over the years, I don't believe that just anyone can grow and process tobacco. Heck, I believe that just smoking pipes is too hard for some, ha ha.

I predict it will not pass; but it is a bipartisan effort, and eventually they will get something through. The clock is ticking.

What reasons do you have for thinking it won't pass other than the incompetence and infighting between the two political parties? Who is around to oppose it being passed? That's what is scary. Not sure why some of the larger manufacturer's aren't putting some money into lobbying because it probably wouldn't take much to have pipe tobacco excluded. All tobacco companies should be taking notice because if they get this one through you can rest assured there will be another bill coming behind it to ban more.

I don't care to some extent as it would probably be doing me a favor by making it where I can't buy any more tobacco I definitely don't need. But I do care how it would affect many other brothers of the leaf. I care about this forum struggling to stay afloat. I care about other things, such as the Chicago Pipe Show, ceasing to exist. I care about a lot of pipe carvers who scrape out a living at their trade and are generally really nice people.

Here's what is a bit sad. At least the cigar manufacturers would go to the effort of providing a form letter and contact information for their Congress Representatives for people to write to and oppose such bills. And online petitions.

 

[perdurabo]

Well if that happens, members here get to decide if this forum really matters to them all that much, by supporting it financially, which happens with other forums.

Screw that! Some have already said they have issues with funds for the cellar, you think they’ll pay to be on social media?

not directed at you Sable, just continuing the conversation.

 

[mso489]

Horrible news but might make my local independent pipe shop proprietor better off in retirement, though it could be an enticement not to retire. Also, it might be an inducement for cigarette and head shops to stock some pouches and tubs that they've scorned in the past, if management is alert enough to take up the opportunity. I'm sure there is a battle of lobbyists behind the scenes, which is where a lot of legislation gets launched or sidelined. Don't underestimate the influence of letters to your reps; edit out the vitriol, keep it succinct (short), and rattle off your main points. The staff and sometimes the rep him or herself actually read this stuff, to see which way the wind is blowing.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

What reasons do you have for thinking it won't pass other than the incompetence and infighting between the two political parties?

Nope, knowing this bill was written by both parties and passed by the GOP led Congress, there isn't any reason to be hopeful that it wont pass. But, I am just silly enough to hope for a sliver of intervention.

Not sure why some of the larger manufacturer's aren't putting some money into lobbying because it probably wouldn't take much to have pipe tobacco excluded.

Which of the hobby level pipe tobacco giants do you think can afford to do this? Don't forget that pipes comes in dead last and the smallest of all of the niche tobacco users. There are even more people dipping and chewing than smoking pipes. And, the cigarette industry is not going to stop it's own bill (if we can't ship tobacco products, they can't either).

There is way more money in cigars than pipes, and they also have had a lot more class in dealing with DC. What I have seen from pipe smoking organizations has been ridiculous. But, the cigar guys went directly to Marco Rubio and won a few other Congressmen also.
I hope I'm wrong and someone is doing something classy in DC for pipes, but all I have seen from pipe organizations online have been pathetic. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[litup]

While I agree that banning internet and catalog sales in inevitable, I'm holding out hope that this bill will be amended before it gets passed. At least one member of the subcommittee proposed an amendment that would exclude premium cigars. The amendment was withdrawn so the bill could pass out of the subcommittee but with the understanding that the amendment could be reconsidered when the bill goes to the full committee. One of the co-authors of the bill is also in favor of the exemption.

Source

 

[cosmicfolklore]

While I agree that banning internet and catalog sales in inevitable,

Why, every other form of tobacco has been made illegal to buy online? When dip and chew was made illegal, it happened overnight in the blink of an eye... without warning.

 

[ron123]

Screw that! Some have already said they have issues with funds for the cellar, you think they’ll pay to be on social media?

not directed at you Sable, just continuing the conversation.

Want to make things real interesting...start charging by the post LOL

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Oh, and lets not forget that it was the cigarette industry that was behind that, because they immediately started buying up all of the chew and dip companies.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Screw that! Some have already said they have issues with funds for the cellar, you think they’ll pay to be on social media?

Oh, and all of those guys who have bawked at paying taxes per tin... and trash talking prices at the B&M... we were always saying that one day that B&M would be their only lifeline to pipes on day.

 

[ron123]

Just read the entire article on Cigar Aficionado...they are looking to possibly (probably?) exclude premium cigars from this. One can hope that pipes and pipe tobacco get lumped in with them...

 

[litup]

Why, every other form of tobacco has been made illegal to buy online? When dip and chew was made illegal, it happened overnight in the blink of an eye... without warning.

That's what I'm saying. It is inevitable. But that doesn't mean it will be this particular bill that does it.

 

[kschatey]

I fully understand that both alcohol and tobacco use are bad and not the healthiest of choices. Both involve risks in varying degrees and depend on many factors. However, what I don't understand is how prohibiting online sales solves anything. Alcohol as a federal age limit and sales are regulated by the states. Alcohol sales are mostly face to face (some like Ohio also allow online ordering and incoming shipments of alcohol), and it's up to the sellers to verify the age, but clearly that doesn't really work in all cases. Tobacco rules seem to be mostly controlled by the states right now, although more and more of them are transitioning to a 21 year age limit. Fair enough, make that a federal thing, but either leave the sales to the states like alcohol, or, solve the age verification issue for online sales with a technological solution. Technology and services exist to verify identities and ages online. Financial institutions use them already for new accounts, etc. That seems like a better solution, but I clearly don't understand the bigger picture of what's happening!

 

[perdurabo]

Oh, and all of those guys who have bawked at paying taxes per tin... and trash talking prices at the B&M... we were always saying that one day that B&M would be their only lifeline to pipes on day.

Well I guess you proved my point, they can’t even fund the overhead and State/Fed taxes at the B&M. Yea, the same ones probably bitched about that too,Cosmic.

Meanwhile you can get your Ethnogens online, Oh but that Wiley tobacco! Oh No!

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

When dip and chew was made illegal, it happened overnight in the blink of an eye... without warning.

Yep. That is the way things happen.

Those looking to B&M’s for salvation might be in for a surprise. Ones I am most familiar with have aging owners and no viable business continuation plans. They lease their premises and every time they renew there is a rent increase. If you tried to put a B&M up for sale today, you would likely have to settle for the value of the fixtures, the wholesale price of the inventory plus a minuscule going concern value, if any. A Who would buy the shop when all you have to look forward to is servicing a declining market and dealing with more and more regulation? How many young shop owners are there?

The large companies can make it to their satisfaction without on line or mail order sales. An exception might get carved out for premium cigars, but that might not last for long. They will fight to save what makes the most money, and pipe tobacco ain’t it. Face to face sales of cigarettes and vape sticks? Ok, we can live with that. They know they are dinosaurs and are managing accordingly.

I really and truly do feel sorry for the shop owners who basically have worked for years, built a business, and will never be able to get out for anything more than a fire sale price. That is just not the way things ought to work in this country. No way is this anything but bad for us as hobbyists, much less as smokers.

 

[olkofri]

You can never be fully prepared to deal with the collective stupidity of the morally confused.

Quotable quote. Bookworthy!

Reality is normally very different than how it is characterized by "lawmakers". It's usually very much the opposite of whatever name they give to these pieces of BS legislation...typically something like "family protection act" ... or some such horseshit.

Just assume the exact opposite of whatever the name is and you'll be much closer to reality.

Ecxactly. Their mind is made up: they won't let anyone confuse them with facts.

imho

This forum is a lifeline that probably would get stronger if this legislation does come to pass. Half of you guys would be growing your own and swapping tips on how to increase the sugars in your plants.

Not too sure about that. If the forum does survive it will be watched 24/7 by apparatchiks (as it probably already is) taking names of the New Tobacco and Vaping Act offenders.

 

[peregrinus]

I live in Washington state, a state that has already banned loose tobacco internet sales at the state level. Even though loose cigarette tobacco was the primary target, pipe tobacco was NOT excluded and I doubt it will be if any type of internet ban on tobacco sales is enacted on a national level.
Interestingly, at literally the same time, the state legalized recreational pot stores. The head shops and pot stores out number B&M tobacconists 100 to 1 here. No joke.
The future is already here in the Evergreen State.

 

[mso489]

The tobacco business, big and small, won't like this legislation. In areas that have tobacco businesses and agriculture, there are factions and lobbies that won't like it. Tobacco farmers won't like it, nor secretaries of agriculture in the states where tobacco grows. Since all kinds of things other than tobacco-related goods are sold online that offend various demographics, there's that issue. Proof of age for online purchases could be pivotal. The central issue is not selling products to people under 21 or 18.

 

[unadoptedlamp]

You're still going to be able to buy tobacco online from the EU. Don't forget South America. Hell, even Canada could be a source. Ha... There are likely more, but nobody seriously seeks it out at the moment because they don't have to.

Sure, a lot of good blends from the U.S.A. will probably go by the wayside, assuming they're surviving on internet sales (are they? I've never seen sales numbers), but it's not like you're going to have to look for shreds of tobacco in empty drawers to stuff your pipe, if you don't want to.

You're just going to have to pay a lot more for your "hobby." And you'll also have to find ways to dodge customs, as a number of people on here already have to do.

It's a tough change, no doubt, but not one you can't get around.

I just wanted to add a little optimism here. A number of people are already in similar positions and have found workarounds. At a cost. You will be able to as well, if you're willing to be flexible.

 

[anotherbob]

I say write your representatives and gently tell them what fools you think they are. It is far from a guarantee but it can work better then it seems it would. Key points kids aren't buying specialty products and this punishes adults who have already made their minds up a long time ago as well as thriving businesses. Include how we're not concentrated geographically and to really enjoy our hobby we need mail order which has been part of the tobacco scene for decades for this explicit reason. The one major snag is who is putting the money into this bullshit. I'd bet it's the cigarette companies who are so pissed that the pact act hasn't stopped people from using other products (yeah those assholes where behind that piece of garbage).
Edit: side note there is also a really good chance this is political theater. No intention of getting it passed but the politicians can enjoy the best of both worlds. If they don't pass this they can look like they've tried to protect the precious children (who are overrated anyways, most of them become adults at some point), but don't have to piss off any sources of campaign revenue or any of the people who smoke and vote.