Nice to hear someone high up issue a statement and give some reassurance the problem is being looked at across the board
Two of My Favorites Moldy
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Very informative, Ted.
I am sure you can answer a question I posed: What is the humidity profile for moisture and mold growth? In other words, for example, mold is inhibited up to say 50% humidity @ 70º, increases in a bell shaped curve, and stops at 80%...
(I know you deal in moisture content, but conversion to RH at 70º would be useful as well.)
I am sure you can answer a question I posed: What is the humidity profile for moisture and mold growth? In other words, for example, mold is inhibited up to say 50% humidity @ 70º, increases in a bell shaped curve, and stops at 80%...
(I know you deal in moisture content, but conversion to RH at 70º would be useful as well.)
Thank you so much Ted.
I would like to thank the C&D team for reflecting high morale character through this. The customer service has easily exceeded all of my expectations (not only with this but with inquiries and even surveys). I could go on and on with how impressed I've been, but I'll stop here. Thank you for this post. I also think a YT video would be great
I would like to thank the C&D team for reflecting high morale character through this. The customer service has easily exceeded all of my expectations (not only with this but with inquiries and even surveys). I could go on and on with how impressed I've been, but I'll stop here. Thank you for this post. I also think a YT video would be great
Just saw a new video on YouTube of a guy showing off his mold on Kajun Kake (maybe that was the OP?) This really has me worried and I'm not likely gonna be purchasing anymore tins from them until they get a hold of this mold outbreak. I just bought the two new GL Pease and one of the cellar series and the tops are already buldging... is this a sign of mold??? Now I'm worried that they're all moldy and I don't really want to have to worry about this shit. I spend good money on tobacco, I don't want to be playing phone tag to try and figure out how I can get my moldy tobacco exchanged with mold-less tobacco.
I will say that I haven't had a problem with their bulk blends... so far.
Edit* It appears that this mold problem is spanning across a couple of years now too! I heard about past outbreaks but I thought this was just more of a recent problem.
I've thankfully just recently started to like C&D tobaccos so I don't have too many in my cellar but I would be pretty damn upset if I had a cellar full of moldy tobacco..
I will say that I haven't had a problem with their bulk blends... so far.
Edit* It appears that this mold problem is spanning across a couple of years now too! I heard about past outbreaks but I thought this was just more of a recent problem.
I've thankfully just recently started to like C&D tobaccos so I don't have too many in my cellar but I would be pretty damn upset if I had a cellar full of moldy tobacco..
Overall, mold issues with my products have occurred at a very low rate, and I haven't seen any with the new blends, and I just checked by control samples. Tin bulging is usually a byproduct of fermentation, which is actually a good thing. If you open the tins and find mold, they will be replaced.
In light of some of the other posts in this thread, Ted pretty much beat me to it, but I have a couple things to say regarding my own products.
I know that the issue with Carolina Flake was painful for everyone concerned, both the customers and the manufacturer. Though I'm not involved in C&D's affairs other than as they concern my product, I do know this situation pretty intimately, and am confident that this particular problem has been addressed and solved, and was contained within that one product. It's unfortunate that it happened, but my hat is off for the way it has been handled. In the past, it would have been a "replace as it comes up" response; the fact that C&D did a complete recall on the product is, as far as I know, unprecedented in the industry.
Prior to the merger, I worked closely with C&D to establish quality control procedures that would minimize mold issues. It's not an easy thing to do, given our combined dedication to maintaining the purest possible product consistent with mold control. But, mold spores are everywhere, and any product with sufficient moisture and something the fungi like to eat will, if not treated, is subject to occasional germination of those spores and the resultant furry infestation of full grown "adult" mold.
Years ago, we went to the industry to discuss options. Everything that we have ever tested has been a food-grade product, and safe to use in our application. I did controlled experiments to find the minimum application rates for different products at different moisture and pH levels. As a result, mold issues, at least within the GLPease catalogue, all but disappeared. (BTW the poorest performance was found in the often lauded "vinegar" solution. Vinegar in this application is absolutely NOT an effective fungistatic, evidenced by a whole mess of very fuzzy and stinky samples in my experimental batches.) We still had the occasional problem, but it was always isolated cases.
Blends with large percentages of perique, especially, are more challenging. Perique is a very wet tobacco, and quite biologically active because of its processing. Once exposed to air, it can sprout mold within weeks, or even days, depending on environmental conditions. Burleys, too, can be tricky because of the leaf's higher pH than flue-cured leaf; most fungistatics are most effective at low concentrations under a fairly narrow range of acidic pH. So, despite our efforts, some of the C&D blends were still prone to mold occasionally. R&D continued.
After the merger, C&D began further refinement of quality control procedures, and I can honestly say that the product they are making today has improved in almost every respect. Consistency of cut, moisture, and packaging is better today than it's ever been, largely thanks to Jeremy's willingness to work diligently towards improved production methods. The Carolina Flake tragedy (and it really is one, since that leaf is special) was a glitch in the system. Sure, it would have been nice if it had never happened, but it did, and was handled very professionally. And it won't happen again.
All that to say that I'm happier than ever with my relationship with C&D. We work closely together, and I'm confident in the quality of the product they produce under my label.
There seem to be some pretty gross overstatements and overreactions here from some members of our little isolated Island of Misfit Toys.
Thanks for the response, Ted. A current 1 out of 10,000 seems like a reasonable rate of failure for an as-natural-as-possible product and it seems like a proactive approach to the problem coupled with a bulletproof return policy is in place. More than good enough for me.
The moldy sky isn't falling.
Edit: Also, thanks Mr. Pease. I see you just added your insight as well. Appreciate it.
Thanks for the response, Ted. A current 1 out of 10,000 seems like a reasonable rate of failure for an as-natural-as-possible product and it seems like a proactive approach to the problem coupled with a bulletproof return policy is in place. More than good enough for me.
The moldy sky isn't falling.
Edit: Also, thanks Mr. Pease. I see you just added your insight as well. Appreciate it.
jpmcwjr, that's a great question. I don't think I can provide a satisfying or complete answer without a laboratory, a chemist, and a research analyst. (Not to be glib, rather I'm being totally sincere!) Every blend is different. Every batch is different, particularly keeping in mind that crops very from year to year, and then leaf components can change in a blend, and then there's the hundreds of species of mold spores that are all around us at all times; it's just a lot of data to gather and then a huge number to crunch. The bottomline is that the more moist a tobacco is, and the more heat it's exposed to, and the fewer preservatives it's treated with, increases the likelihood that mold spores will sprout.
OK, thanks, Ted. Yes, I realize there are a zillion variables, but I was hoping you or someone reading this could come up with ball park numbers.
I will disagree with a statement or two- the moister, the more likely mold will grow: storing it in water will inhibit such!
Same with heat, beyond a certain temp, mold won't grow. OK, enough silliness here.
And I just saw Greg's post, very welcome indeed.
I will disagree with a statement or two- the moister, the more likely mold will grow: storing it in water will inhibit such!
Same with heat, beyond a certain temp, mold won't grow. OK, enough silliness here.And I just saw Greg's post, very welcome indeed.
There's some correlation between moisture content by weight and RH, but it is dependent on leaf type, so it's not especially accurate or entirely reliable. However, RH in the 65-70% range will generally correspond to MBW in the range we're interested in.
As to mold germination as a function of MBW, that's also a tough one. Most fungi require a water activity of at least 0.7. Water activity is related to moisture content non-linearly, and is dependent on many factors, like how much of the water is bound vs. free. Fungi won't usually grow on tobacco with MBW of 10% or less, but that would be very dry and frangible - not ideal for a good smoking experience. Sugars tend to bind water, so sweeter tobaccos can have a higher MBW while also having a lower water activity, which is another reason low-sugar tobaccos like burley and perique are more prone to mold at lower moisture levels.
In other words, every leaf type, and therefore every blend would have a different curve, and those curves would be skewed by different flavorings and types and concentrations of fungistatics, which is why finding minimum application rates can be frustrating. And, those curves wouldn't be normal, but rather some non-linear function of moisture content.
Well, that does it for me! No more questions on this by me, and I thank you for your explanations! Guess I was seeking a fairly simple answer to a very complex question.
I'm not boycotting, I'm waiting for them to get their new microbacterial process in place. I'm also wary of the tins that are still out there, plus having to pay customs fees twice if I happen to get a moldy tin. Also some of the tins have gotten moldy after being opened.
It looks like from this video there's certain batches that should be recalled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzyMZmMcS2s
It looks like from this video there's certain batches that should be recalled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzyMZmMcS2s
Ted and Greg:
Wonderful responses from a couple of stand up guys. Thank you, gentlemen.
PSTom, I'm going to side with Andy here. I've lived abroad and customs fees suck. If you have to pay them twice then it really sucks the high hard one.
Laudisi and GLP will be around long after I'm gone. Until then, if I ever pop a tin gone to seed then I know a replacement, plus something else, will be in the mail to me to compensate for aggravation and return mailing fees. That's what class companies do and I would expect nothing less from them. But, I live in the States. Overseas mailing fees and duty charges open up a drain on the corporate checkbook so Andy is quite right in expressing his concerns.
Fnord
Wonderful responses from a couple of stand up guys. Thank you, gentlemen.
PSTom, I'm going to side with Andy here. I've lived abroad and customs fees suck. If you have to pay them twice then it really sucks the high hard one.
Laudisi and GLP will be around long after I'm gone. Until then, if I ever pop a tin gone to seed then I know a replacement, plus something else, will be in the mail to me to compensate for aggravation and return mailing fees. That's what class companies do and I would expect nothing less from them. But, I live in the States. Overseas mailing fees and duty charges open up a drain on the corporate checkbook so Andy is quite right in expressing his concerns.
Fnord
I don't have any of the blends that have been impacted by these mold issues, and I haven't really seen many pictures or video's showing off the mold issue in question; but I'm hoping that everyone that thinks they found mold on their tobacco knows the difference between mold and plume/bloom. I saw a guy on IG post a short video clip and in the video the mold in question looked like some plume/bloom in the video. Without seeing it close up and in person its hard for me to say it wasn't mold, but it looked more like plume/bloom to me.
I've seen many times newer cigar smokers toss cigars that had plume/bloom on the cigar thinking it was mold; not knowing the difference. I know there are a lot of newer pipe smokers, and some that never smoked cigars, and may not know what plume/bloom is. My only advice is to learn the difference between plume/bloom and mold and be certain that what you're seeing is in fact mold.
I've seen many times newer cigar smokers toss cigars that had plume/bloom on the cigar thinking it was mold; not knowing the difference. I know there are a lot of newer pipe smokers, and some that never smoked cigars, and may not know what plume/bloom is. My only advice is to learn the difference between plume/bloom and mold and be certain that what you're seeing is in fact mold.
+1 with all the grateful thanks to Ted and Greg. I am ALWAYS humbled and appreciative of their willingness to share things from their perspective that most consumers never get to know in the rest of the world. When people like Ted and Greg and Russ and the SToP guys etc. can come to the forum and participate and enlighten, it's just another evidence of the splendid nature of the Pipe World and its inhabitants! Thanks to all!! (And I'm much less worried now about the many wonderful products in my cellar!)
'Had one problem with mold in C&D tobacco. If I remember correctly, it was in some Izmir blending tobacco, I picked out the offending leaf, and expected the mold spores to remain and infect the rest, but it didn't seem to happen. Still, I think out of caution, I eventually threw out the small amount, and much later ordered some more that has no problem. C&D is hand blended, so probably the conditions vary a lot. On the other hand, I've ordered C&D blends over years, and there was only the one incident for me.
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