Traditional Archery

[pipebow88]

I actually just finished a few more articles in it while smoking a Boswell bent swirl billard full of F&T Vintage flake. I am enjoying it even though I received it quite late. Our local Hastings went out of business, and I always purchased it there. I missed a couple of months while I procrastinated getting my subscription. I purchased my subscription last week and purchased this back issue while I was at it. I am enjoying it thoroughly as well.
Congrats on the new string. I have yet to build my first. I have always had someone else build mine for me. Out of curiosity what material are you using? I'm quite partial to fast-flight myself. I had a string at one time from astro-flight as well. I loved that material after it stretched in. Unfortunately that material had a lot of stretching to do before it was broken in. Of course on my selfbows they always had a standard Dacron B50 on them.

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[houndstooth]

I made this first one with B50, because it's relatively cheap and time tested. This first string was a learning experiment, not intended for actual use. My Bowyer recommends BCY Force 10, 97 or 8125. I ordered some Force 10. It's not cheap, but it is super strong and exhibits very little creep. I would use 8 - 10 strands for my 45 lb Whip, as opposed to 12 strands recommended for the B50. I can say from experience that the BCY Force 10 makes for a very quiet and thin string. The only difference is that Toelke makes theirs up in an endless loop style, but I will be making a Flemish twist.

 

[pipebow88]

I have seen a few people shooting endless loops. Personally I have only shot a flemish twist. Never had a problem with it, So I never saw a point to change. I have been curious about shooting a thinner string. There is a gentleman in Texas that makes some of the thinnest for trad bows out there. In fact he was the one who came up with the method to make skinny strings. I have been tempted to order one of his to try, but just haven't gotten to it. May have to give one a try on my new bow once it is ready. I can't say if I am familiar with force 10 or not. I have shot various materials of fast flight, and don't know them all. I can say I understand practicing with B50 on making a string. The better materials are quite a bit more expensive.
On another note anyone here making there accesories as Houndstooth is. Though I haven't done strings I have done various pieces of leather work. I am about to start a armguard for my wife(she decided to give another bow a shot and found one that felt good to her today. Shot a round with some friends and she had a great time.), will start her armguard tonight or tomorrow. I have made a hunting armguard for myself, shooting tabs, tooled armguard for a friend, and a backquiver. I'll post some pics up of some of the gear in a bit.

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[houndstooth]

With the thinner strings, you want to make sure they are padded at the loop sections with extra strands to make sure the string doesn't cut into and damage the string nocks. I will pad the 8 or 10 strand string I make up with Force 10 for my bow with enough padding strands to equal 14 strands total.
And yes... I have done some leather work in the past. I made a few knife sheaths, a holster for my 1911, and a sheath for a tomahawk. I plan on making an arm brace and a back quiver as well as a hip quiver in time. Might get started on one o those projects pretty soon.
Here are some pics of a couple of the above mentioned leather projects...
My 1911 holster (before I applied a finish to it:

Here is my Tomahawk sheath:

 

[pipebow88]

Those are some sharp pieces of work. I especially like the 1911 holster. I love my 1911, and prefer them over any other handgun. I am ready to try forming some pieces like that.
All I could find right now are my quiver and hunting armguard(I don't wear an armguard while shooting usually. Only during cold weather hunting to keep the clothing layers back from my string. Both of these pieces are out of oiled chap leather to keep them fit for hunting. Need to do a nice tooled side quiver for tournaments still. Wish I could find the pic of the tooled armguard I did for a friend. I also had to rob an antler button from my armguard for emergency use elsewhere. Need to make a new button for it.

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[houndstooth]

That's some inspiring work, man, very nice! I would like to make an arm guard and quiver very similar to your designs. Do you recall any details about the type/weight of leather you used for those?
Thanks!

BTW, if you want me to send you my 1911 "blue" gun for molding purposes, I'd be happy to lend it to you. They are kind of pricey to buy, an this one is a pretty good molding of a full size standard 1911 that worked pretty well as a surrogate for mine.

 

[pipebow88]

These are from a side of 4-5 oz chap leather. I've heard it called chap and utility leather. It's oiled and some great stuff for outdoors use. I was getting some tips from a local leather worker. While I was at his shop explaining what I was wanting to do he pulled out a side of this and said he thought it would be perfect for my back quiver. Luckily he had just bought a large lot at a killer price of $60 a side. I picked up a side, and now I wish I had picked up 3-4 at that price. It has been useful for a lot of stuff. It is tough enough to last, and light enough to not grow old carrying as a back quiver. It also being lighter weight has enough flex in it to allow it to form to your back nicely. This lets the quiver hold the arrows in place so they don't bounce around on your and cause noise. They stay nice and quiet all of the time. At the time I was using a lock stitch with a speedy stitcher awl. I now use the double needle saddle stitch. I need to take it apart and restitch it all, as much as I really hate to do it all again.
Thanks for the offer on the blue gun. I might have to take you up on that sometime. I would like to try my hand at my own. Currently I am carrying from a Milt Sparks Versa-Max II. I am possibly about to start up a personal business, as well as I already have a few leather projects that need to be done. So I have to hold off on adding any big projects for the moment, but eventually I will get to.

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[houndstooth]

I've got the same Milt Sparks too! Great, great holster.
Very cool info on the back quiver. I bought a couple of hides today (one veg tanned and one oil tanned). I'm going to make a back quiver from the oil tanned hide, and a hip quiver from the veg tanned one. I'm not sure which I'll use for the arm brace yet.
Also, for the back quiver I am debating whether to do a leather lace up type of stitching or a double needle saddle stitch. I can do either (although I never tried a lace up style stitching before). Hmmm... Not sure. The side quiver will definitely be sewn up using the double needle saddle stitch.
By the way, if you get a chance, I would love to see a pic or two of how you did your shoulder strap on that back quiver!
Oh, and I paid quite a bit more than you did for the oil tanned hide!
One last thing... this place has been a great resource in the past for finding some high quality vintage and new leather working tools:
http://www.sheridanleather.com/category_s/1844.htm
I have no affiliation with them, but I have purchased a few tools from them over the years, and they always have great stuff (but not cheap).

 

[pipebow88]

I have seen the back quiver stitched and laced. As you see mine currently has stitching on everything except the top with is laced with leather thong. I wanted it to be stitched, but feel either is fine. I will get some pics tomorrow of how I did the strap, and also pics of another quiver that has a different style of mounting on the strap to let you see a couple of ideas. What weight is the oil tanned hide you got? I have done armguards now from both and I would say let your use of the armguard determine it. If you wear one all the time while shooting I would likely do one from the veg tan with tooling. If you only wear it while hunting as I do then I would vote on the oil tanned. Just my $.02.
I'll have to check them out for some tools. Most everything I have now is from Tandy. Our local hobby lobby carries quite a few tandy leather tools. I bought 1 every week with their 40% off weekly coupon till I had all I wanted. Good way to get started off without spending much. But I have everything I want that they carry now. Still quite a few tools I want.

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[bentmike]

Great discussion going on here on the TA thread! Here are some pics of my back quiver. It was in kit form when I got it. Just took a few minutes to lace it up. Once I got the pieces laid out I realized how easy it would be to make one from scratch.



I've crafted many arrows over the last 20 years and still have most of them.

When I got serious into traditional archery I started building my own arrows from raw shafting. I have used Port Orford Cedar, Western Larch and laminated Birch shafts. I've made flu flus from hardward store dowel rods that worked great for stump shooting/aerial targets. The arrows in the back quiver are Larch. I bought my shafting from Three Rivers by the dozen. The problem with that is you can only count on maybe six of them being really close in weight and spine.

Out of the dozen I ended up with these. The finished weight of the completed arrow (in grains) is written on the tiny labels. Only a five grain spread is pretty darn close. The rest of the dozen were closer to 600 grains so I just left those in my spare arrow box. I have no idea about the spine variation. When ordering by the dozen presorted you just have to hope for the best. If I was to do it again I would spend the money on a spine tester and buy my wood shafting by the hundred then carefully sort them out by weight on the grain scale and spine tester.
Making wood arrows is highly satisfying and really is a hobby in and of itself. You don't need a whole lot of equipment: Fletching jig, taper tool, small hand saw and some glue and stain if you want to color your shafts. I have used a feather chopper to cut shapes into feathers and it also helps to make friends with a successful wild turkey hunter and get ahold of those big wing feathers. As you guys were discussing the natural barred turkey feather has the water-proofness and camo built right in. How cool is that?
Over time as the popularity of traditional archery grew from the late 90's to today several manufacturers started producing carbon shafting specific to the traditional crowd. While I love wood arrows I have gravitated to the carbon stuff for the incredible consistency of these type of shafts. These Gold Tip carbons even have a wood grain pattern to make them look good. I shoot these from my flatbows. I got tired of breaking my hand made labor of loves and I find the carbon much more durable. I like stump shooting so my targets can be rotting stumps, dirt clods, leaves or bits of moss. most of the time it's a very soft impact for the arrow but you cant avoid every unseen rock.

Also included in the supplies my friend gave me was a string jig that he had built. I got a roll of B-50 and was off and running after he showed me how its done. I actually had to build another jig using his as a template but made the new one longer to make long bow strings. He was a recurve shooter and the jig would only open so far. The hardest part about string making is getting the serving just right. If your wraps are too tight you can't pull the tag end through when your done and if it is too loose it starts to unravel shortly with use. I wanted to do it to learn the process and say I did it myself but now I've gone to buying flemmish strings. they're cheap and the serving is well done.

 

[houndstooth]

Pipebow, I look forward to seeing the pics... thank you in advance! The guy at the shop (Tandy) said the oil tanned hide is 8 - 10 oz weight, but I am not sure how that's measured. It seems like the right thickness for the stye of back quiver I want to make (a bit more supple than the vegetable tanned hides of the same weight). As for tools, I still want to get more for hand tooling/carving, but for now I just have a couple for basket weave designs, and edge borders. I'm covered in the stitching department though, and I have a nice little pony that clamps onto a table.
Bentmike, Thank you for posting pics of your back quiver! The pictures both you and Pipebow have posted are giving me some good ideas on how I will go about making mine. Those are great looking arrows, too! I would like to try making wood shaft arrows down the line sometime. There are quite a few guys at my local range that make their own, and they are really nice. For now, I have been sticking to carbon. I have made up GT's, and Carbon Express arrows in the past, but I have landed on Easton Axis Traditionals (500 spine, 8.9 grains per inch). They are super durable, quite thin, and have a nice wood grain finish applied to them. I also really like the "HIT" or "Hidden Insert Technology" type of insert they employ. I have a Bitzenburger fletching jig. I had to go with a Bitzenburger jig, because Henry Bitzenburger was the first president of the Pasadena Roving Archers in 1935, and helped to create the Lower Arroyo Seco range that is still in operation.

 

[bentmike]

I like the weight insert system with the carbon arrows too. Lets you tailor the arrow to your purpose. I think a heavier arrow just flies better especially from a long bow. Not to mention the importance of a heavy arrow for primitive hunting.
The Bitzenburger is a sweet jig. Very accurate. I use an old Cabelas' jig I bought many years ago. It works ok for straight mounted feathers but doesn't seem to have the precision required for a nice helical fletch. My brother in law who is a hard core bowhunter got a Bitzenburger a couple years ago and his fletchings are great.
Good luck with the back quiver project houndstooth. I look forward to seeing it completed.

 

[houndstooth]

Alright, I've been busy with some trad archery projects...

1st, I made an arm guard, but I haven't taken a photo of what it looks like completed with a saddle brown dye and mink oil applied. I'll try to take a shot tomorrow and post it. Here are a couple of pics of what it looked like after casing and tooling. The blotchiness is because the leather was drying after the casing (wetting), but some areas were still wet.

I also fabricated a string stretching jig for making Flemish twist bowstrings. Here are some pics of the stretcher and my first string I made for my buddy. In truth this was the 4th actual string I made, as getting dialed in with a new string making jig takes some trial and error.

And just for fun, here's a very unfortunate monkey who got the stuffing knocked out of him from 30 yards. The red and chartreuse barred fletched arrows are mine.

 

[billinsfl]

Perhaps I should bring up the time I was admonished by a Chicago police officer for throwing darts with an atlatl in a city park. He told me if I didn't stop he wasn't certain whether or not he would put me in jail or send me to a mental hospital!

 

[houndstooth]

There were a couple of guys using Atlatls at a match I shot in last weekend. I had never really seen one up close. Pretty cool.
Correction to my post above... the monkey was definitely peppered from closer than 30 yds. That pic was probably from around 15 - 20. We were varying our distance that day and went back to 55 yds for a couple of rounds. Our groups at 30 definitely had more spread than in that pic.

 

[pipebow88]

Arm guard looks good houndstooth! I enjoy tooling a lot, still not great at it. Still enjoy it nonetheless. The string stretching jig is a nice asset. Though I don't make strings yet. I hate shooting a string that isn't pre stretched. Takes forever to shoot one in that isn't.
Well the wife decided that she was going to give archery another shot. She is really enjoyin with her new bow. It's a little lighter and fits her much better. Going to shoot a big tournament this weekend. Had to get her set up with new arrows, nock points, string silencers, shooting tab and arm guard. Here is he arm guard and tab. She wanted teal in them, and no tooling. Had the perfect teal from old furniture samples. She is quite pleased.

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[chops]

Great work guys! I might have to commission some of you for quiver and arm guards.

 

[bentmike]

Yes very cool! Nice work fellas thanks for posting.