Here ya go . Prime Minister Thatcher said, "...and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
Tobacco to be Banned?
- Thread starter subtech77
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They won't get tobacco banned in the USA within my lifetime, but they will probabley ban aromatic pipe tobacco very soon because the FDA is now in charge of tobacco. The FDA a year or two ago tried its hardest to ban e-cigs mostly because "they came in fruity flavors appealing to children." They have the same concern with tobacco products as well. Currently cigarettes can only be regular and menthol, I predict the same to happen to pipes and cigars as well, probabley within the next 5 years.
every payday I buy a tub of CH and a tub of PA (sometimes SB) to add to the cellar. when I run across Stonehaven or Penzance in the 8oz bags I will buy and add to the cellar. I'm 63 and if they banned pipe tobacco tomorrow I think I'm in good shape. I also have a decent stash of strike anywhere matches and a about a dz MM Country Gents. I live way out in the sticks and if I couldn't get to town (or the town was full of zombees) I could last awhile. I have an old f-250 diesel that I rarely drive except to go hunting which I always keep full and it has one of those construction type 50 gallon tanks in the bed. Also, have a small propane generator with it's own buried tank. which would last a very long time if only ran as needed.
I have to agree that the EU probably won't make it to 2050. Neither will I. Ah, full retirement at last. Stock up lads. Another reason to put away tobacco is that I believe that the government's forcing of internet sales tax on Amazon, will lead to a general internet taxing, and that will lead to internet tobacco taxes. How about a 50 gram can for $25?
Eric, I forgot that one though it is usually in my list of things to watch out for:
a)flavoured tobacco ban
b)pipe tobacco tax increase
c)prohibition of internet sales
Either one of these would be devastating for our little community. Be on the alert.
Man, I was born to the wrong generation. This modern society and its restrictive government is getting worse by the day...
a)flavoured tobacco ban
b)pipe tobacco tax increase
c)prohibition of internet sales
Either one of these would be devastating for our little community. Be on the alert.
Man, I was born to the wrong generation. This modern society and its restrictive government is getting worse by the day...
Thing is while i agree that people should be protected from whatever they feel is a danger to them
I also feel that smoking itself isn't the problem. Smoking tobacco in moderation will have some health benefits.
While smoking cigarettes in their current form is just feeding a drug addict, i find it disturbing that the 2 separate ways using tobacco are not more clear.
Alcohol has it's health issues and addicts yet it is not under the attack tobacco is. People see it for what it is, a substance that has many uses and can give people enjoyment and like anything when abused can cause deaths.
I also feel that smoking itself isn't the problem. Smoking tobacco in moderation will have some health benefits.
While smoking cigarettes in their current form is just feeding a drug addict, i find it disturbing that the 2 separate ways using tobacco are not more clear.
Alcohol has it's health issues and addicts yet it is not under the attack tobacco is. People see it for what it is, a substance that has many uses and can give people enjoyment and like anything when abused can cause deaths.
Man where I live it's past the point of taking people out of harm's way.
You can't smoke indoors anymore in a public place so one is no longer subjected to second hand smoke, you can't smoke around doorways due to complaints from a vocal minority despite the fact that when one is outdoors any exposure is negligible to nonexistent, you are subjected to a barrage of anti-smoking messages from cradle to grave all paid for by the public dime, you can't advertise tobacco or even display it in the shops anymore so nobody can use the BS argument that they are being coerced by Big Tobacco.
It is to the point now where it's easier for youth to get marijuana than tobacco, and the numbers are starting to show it... So let me get this straight - combusting and deeply inhaling one species of plant matter is better for your lungs than another, now? Give me a break!
So why exactly can't they stop there? They have to pick the pockets of smokers even more, and restrict their choices even further just to satisfy their own smug beliefs. Anybody who doesn't know the risks of smoking these days is an idiot that can't be saved, so they should stop their proselytizing and start trying to balance the books by some means other than sin taxes...
I respect that people should have the choice not to be exposed to smoke in a public indoors environment, but people should also have the choice to smoke if they wish on the commons or in the privacy of their own homes! It's that simple. Maybe the tobacco companies were guilty of exploitation back in the day, but if I want to buy the stuff then that should be my right as an individual and as long as it is legal then the government should stop trying to restrict brands/flavours and everything else... By banning flavoured pipe tobacco, for example, they are implying that smoking cigarettes is less harmful and that is a laughable conclusion to say the least.
You can't smoke indoors anymore in a public place so one is no longer subjected to second hand smoke, you can't smoke around doorways due to complaints from a vocal minority despite the fact that when one is outdoors any exposure is negligible to nonexistent, you are subjected to a barrage of anti-smoking messages from cradle to grave all paid for by the public dime, you can't advertise tobacco or even display it in the shops anymore so nobody can use the BS argument that they are being coerced by Big Tobacco.
It is to the point now where it's easier for youth to get marijuana than tobacco, and the numbers are starting to show it... So let me get this straight - combusting and deeply inhaling one species of plant matter is better for your lungs than another, now? Give me a break!
So why exactly can't they stop there? They have to pick the pockets of smokers even more, and restrict their choices even further just to satisfy their own smug beliefs. Anybody who doesn't know the risks of smoking these days is an idiot that can't be saved, so they should stop their proselytizing and start trying to balance the books by some means other than sin taxes...
I respect that people should have the choice not to be exposed to smoke in a public indoors environment, but people should also have the choice to smoke if they wish on the commons or in the privacy of their own homes! It's that simple. Maybe the tobacco companies were guilty of exploitation back in the day, but if I want to buy the stuff then that should be my right as an individual and as long as it is legal then the government should stop trying to restrict brands/flavours and everything else... By banning flavoured pipe tobacco, for example, they are implying that smoking cigarettes is less harmful and that is a laughable conclusion to say the least.
A lot of this has been covered in some of Kevin's prior articles, but is worth repeating...
Keep in mind that, broadly speaking, the TTB regulates the taxes on tobacco, while the FDA regulates what sorts of products can legally be sold. FDA also determines the definitions for cigar, pipe and cigarette tobacco.
Currently the FDA is not in charge of pipe tobacco and cigars. Cigars will very likely come under FDA scope in 2013, and many believe it will happen before the end of 2012. Hard to say what the immediate impact will be. They may treat large hand-roll cigars differently than small cigars. They will likely try to ban flavored small cigars.
When cigarette tobacco came under FDA scope in 2009, probably the biggest single impact was to require FDA approval to launch any new product (again, the rise in taxes was a coinciding TTB action). Since March of 2009, there have been exactly zero new cigarette tobacco products (and even rolling papers) approved. No new brands. No new blends. Nada.
Once cigars come under scope, the same rules will apply, which means the only products that will be sold will be the ones currently available on the market. If those sorts of rules are applied to large, hand-rolled cigars, it would devastate the premium cigar industry, as part of its lifeblood is a constant influx of new cigar blends.
Pipe tobacco will likely come into scope in 2013 or 2014. The impact? A flavor ban applied in a draconian way would kill the industry. Personally I do not think this will happen. Believe it or not, there is a (hopefully) productive dialogue occurring between the FDA and the pipe tobacco industry. The ability to launch new brands and blends on the other hand... We'll just have to see.
As far as taxes, would I be shocked to see the federal excise rate for pipe tobacco increase from $2.83 per pound to $24.73 per pound (current cigarette excise rate) within the next two years? No, I would not. Dick Durbin already proposed the legistlation in May of 2012. This would mean that if you pay, for example, $6.99 for a 1.5oz pouch today, it would increase to somewhere north of $10.50.
Leonard, it sounds like these are the end times for pipe tobacco. I don't want to sound sensationalistic or anything, but it is not promising for a consumer to say the least...
I hope that you folks in the pipe tobacco industry make some progress and are not railroaded out of business by a cut and dry flavour ban instituted by the FDA...
I mean the next year or two is going to bring a massive change to the industry. To be honest with you, I'll be done with tobacco if all they leave unscathed are the mass market cigarettes. I guess that is what they want!
I hope that you folks in the pipe tobacco industry make some progress and are not railroaded out of business by a cut and dry flavour ban instituted by the FDA...
I mean the next year or two is going to bring a massive change to the industry. To be honest with you, I'll be done with tobacco if all they leave unscathed are the mass market cigarettes. I guess that is what they want!
i must first admit that i can't credit the source for this comment--i saw it and passed over it without a lot of undue thought--this thread has brought the idea to mind--
the jist of the article was that World Health Organization is the prime mover in the regulation/banishment of tobacco worldwide--if UN and WHO ever do gain worldwide power as is being sought; May heaven help all who live in the world--
the jist of the article was that World Health Organization is the prime mover in the regulation/banishment of tobacco worldwide--if UN and WHO ever do gain worldwide power as is being sought; May heaven help all who live in the world--
This is my belief in what our future looks like. Every state in the union will impose a 80-100% tax on the wholesale price of pipe tobacco. There are already many that have already done this. Next is going to be an internet sales tax which will force the internet sellers to collect the states excise tax. My prediction that within 5 years we will see tins that once sold for 10.00, will be going for 22 or more. Look at places around the world that charge 40 plus for our 10 dollar tins, that is our future. Starting October 1, I am going balls to the walls in my tobacco purchasing, it is never going to be cheaper than it is right now to buy pipe tobacco. I think it is a disgrace that our elected officials continue to tax us to death. It is both sides of the aisle, Florida is Repub and they imposed an 85 percent wholesale tax.
This is the sort of thing that really pisses me off. The FDA or anyone else is not interested in anyone's kids or they'd tone down all the alcohol commercials highly lauding what joy there is in it on TV and magazines. Music, girls, partying-that's what's depicted on TV with everyone having a Bud Lite or Barcardi in their hand yet these impious do gooders won't allow one billboard, one add in a magazine and God forbid a commercial on TV about cigarettes...what hypocrisy!! If they wanted to make Alcohol less attractive to kids they'd for sure stop all the commercials on TV but, nothing is said about that of course.
I'm not taking about a guy having a beer, Bloody Mary or a glass of wine with his pipe, cigar or cigarette or a get together in the backyard with friends having grilled hamburgers or steak with a beer. It's the anti-tobacco zealots that hack me off, like tobacco causes mental impairment and creates monsters. How do you "abuse" tobacco? Smoke too much? Abuse alcohol and you can find yourself with dementia, cirrhosis, brain cells deteriorated and I don't recall ever hearing of someone who committed murder, rape and robbery because they were under the influence of a Marlboro. All BS. This is a sore spot with me so I'll quietly back out the door.
They have already made it illegal for a year in my state (MD) to ship any kind of tobacco online to a customer. Only Just For Him actually enforced this law, every store other than them flat out ignored it. Premium products got excluded from this law a little bit ago appaerntly or the law got repealed, so now I finally got my Middle Earth blends, which are fantastic. I am very scared of the government making aromatics illegal since my favorite pipe tobaccos are mostly English/Aromatic hybrids.
@Simenon & LeonardW You two are some of the msot knowlegable people I have heard on this subject. I did not even think about the possibility of new products being unable to be made, but you are very right that it could happen. The simplest, easiest way for the goverment to regulate the premium tobacco industry is to enforce the same exact laws already in place for cigarettes and I would be willing to bet the people wanting to do this greatly outweighs the ones who don't. Scarry times indeed.
I am not stocking up on my favorite blends or anything like that because I enjoy every kind of pipe tobacco there is, even if straight English or VA are the only pipe tobaccos left, I will still enjoy it considerabley. It however would make me very sad if I could no longer have my favorite blend, Ruins of Isengard, because it is a light aromatic (casing is noticeable) and it is also an English with Latakia in it.
@Simenon & LeonardW You two are some of the msot knowlegable people I have heard on this subject. I did not even think about the possibility of new products being unable to be made, but you are very right that it could happen. The simplest, easiest way for the goverment to regulate the premium tobacco industry is to enforce the same exact laws already in place for cigarettes and I would be willing to bet the people wanting to do this greatly outweighs the ones who don't. Scarry times indeed.
I am not stocking up on my favorite blends or anything like that because I enjoy every kind of pipe tobacco there is, even if straight English or VA are the only pipe tobaccos left, I will still enjoy it considerabley. It however would make me very sad if I could no longer have my favorite blend, Ruins of Isengard, because it is a light aromatic (casing is noticeable) and it is also an English with Latakia in it.
Well, I would'nt worry too much about the "banning" of tobacco. I once taught economics and I can tell you that if there is a "demand" out there (reference prostitution and alcohol during prohibition) there will be a supply. It is just a question of your willingness to pay the price. Raising taxes on tobacco products as a method of banning something or stopping its use is a faulty thinking. People will give up something else and use the money to pay for what they prefer. "Sin" taxes are an example. Increasing taxes on drugs, alcohol, gasoline, etc is just a sure way for governments to increase income because they know folks won't give it up. I noticed in the news the other day that New York is going to outlaw soft drinks over a certain size (16ozs I think) to combat the obesity problem and McDonalds is going to list calories in their food. There are zealots everywhere and there will be somebody against anything you do. I guarantee it. In fact, some of us on this forum are probably guilty of being a zealot in one way or another. "This to shall pass."
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