Tobacco Sources?

[SpuddsBuckley]

Question for anyone who has a more detailed view into the manufacturing process of tobacco blends – For blends that have moved from U.S. manufacturers over to STG in Denmark, does the actual source of the tobacco leaf change? or just the processing and packaging of the blends? For example, if a Sutliff blend is now under STG, the tobacco is now marked as a "product of Denmark", but are its leaves still sourced from say, Virginia or Kentucky, then getting shipped to Denmark for processing and packaging? Or has the ENTIRE process, from seed to tin, moved to Denmark? Thanks!

 

[sablebrush52]

Likely, yes. Different blenders contract from different brokers and different growers. Different pipelines produce different results. Moving a blend to a different environment and achieving a similar result requires rejiggering the blend, which can be very involved.

 

[woodsroad]

What he said.
The blends moved to Denmark will most likely be using whatever tobacco is already in stock there and used in other blends. It's the only cost-effective (and blend killing) thing to do.

 

[FurCoat]

Sablebrush52 summed it up perfectly

 

[Cigar City Piper]

I highly doubt they would use the exact same tobacco that was originally used unless it was already being bought from the same source. STG sources a lot of tobacco from my understanding buying varieties into the 100's mostly from Africa,Asia or South America so they probably have something close enough if not the same. In contrast a company like Gawith Hoggarth only uses I believe 6 types of leaf aside from condiment tobaccos. STG is a Juggernaut of production they make boat loads. All other pipe tobacco companies are minuscule by comparison. We need more small time craft operations or these guys will swallow it all.

 

[SpuddsBuckley]

So, this recent sea change has not only killed American tobacco brands, but essentially puts American tobacco farmers out of business too.

 

[Cigar City Piper]

So, this recent sea change has not only killed American tobacco brands, but essentially puts American tobacco farmers out of business too.

To be honest the local and state governments have been doing more damage to Tobacco growers in the south than any company. They give tax incentives and other percs to Tobacco farmers to stop growing Tobacco and grow some other agricultural product. This has been going on for a long time.

 

[woodsroad]

We need more small time craft operations or these guys will swallow it all.

Have at it!

 

[warren]

essentially puts American tobacco farmers out of business too.

Not if they decide to grow other crops. And, STG isn't the only outfit looking for leaf to buy. So there's no need to pity the farmer, there are options. Dome affected American farmers my look on the situation as push needed to improve their income through alternatives. Very well could be a "win-win" rather that a loss.

 

[crashthegrey]

It is pretty unlikely all of this tobacco gets shipped to Denmark.

 

[SpuddsBuckley]

Okay, so what does it mean when you have something like this – a tobacco Manufactured By STG, but Country is listed as "United States". Does that indicate the leaf is sourced in the US? or is this just TobaccoReviews.com having outdated information?

 

[sardonicus87]

Okay, so what does it mean when you have something like this – a tobacco Manufactured By STG, but Country is listed as "United States". Does that indicate the leaf is sourced in the US? or is this just TobaccoReviews.com having outdated information?

View attachment 372366

No, the country listed there has nothing to do with leaf source.

Many blends have a LOT of leaf in them. A straight VA might have upwards of 15 different leaf sources from all over the world, or it could only have 2-3 leaf sources in it.

I'm not sure what that country listing indicates, whether it's market availability/produced for a particular market, the country of origin of the blend recipe or what, but it's definitely nothing to do with the source of the leaf.

Many American blends source from all over, not just in the USA.

Furthermore, just because a tobacco is called "Kentucky" or "Virginia", that doesn't mean it was grown in either of those states. Those are marketing terms that represent a particular type of tobacco leaf cured in a particular type of way. Virginia and burley can, and often is grown in other places, but those terms aren't used by tobacco brokers. Brokers sell leaf by type of curing (sun, air, flue, etc)... the marketing terms work because "burley" leaf, based on how it's grown and it's grow conditions, lends itself to air curing while virginia lends itself to flue curing.

There was an article about this recently, an article with Jeremy Reeves of C&D, as well as another article where Shane Ireland interviewed someone on the Stokkebye 4th generation blends that can give you insight into that side of things.

The article where Jeremy mentions some stuff about tobacco brokers and buying leaf:

https://www.smokingpipes.com/smokingpipesblog/single.cfm/post/how-the-environment-impacts-tobacco-growth-cultivation

The Stokkebye interview:

https://www.smokingpipes.com/smokingpipesblog/single.cfm/post/remastering-blends-with-erik-stokkebye-4th-generation

 

[eyjaygaming]

Speaking from my experience at Mac Baren: raw leaf is procured from big leaf companies like Universal or Alliance One. Google them. They work with the farmers and cooperatives and offer a wide catalogue of leaf types and qualities. Even though we buy a lot of tobacco from companies like them (last year about 30-40 full 40-feet containers of Brazilian Virginia alone)... Let's say pipe tobacco were to be banned worldwide tomorrow: the leaf industry would not notice, farmers would not notice, leaf prices would not go up. Compared to the volumes that the cigarette industry pulls, it's not even a drop in the bucket.

Big producers like STG or Mac Baren do not rely on US produced leaf, as it's too expensive. That's due to the buyout of tobacco farmers by the US government years ago.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

So, this recent sea change has not only killed American tobacco brands, but essentially puts American tobacco farmers out of business too.

The entirety of the pipesmoking market is a mere fraction of a fraction of what chewing tobacco and cigarettes are. Cigars are even a mammoth industry in comparison.
We don't really make that much of an impact.

 

[woodsroad]

Are there even any farmers left in the US who only grow tobacco?

 

[SpuddsBuckley]

No, the country listed there has nothing to do with leaf source.

Many blends have a LOT of leaf in them. A straight VA might have upwards of 15 different leaf sources from all over the world, or it could only have 2-3 leaf sources in it.

I'm not sure what that country listing indicates, whether it's market availability/produced for a particular market, the country of origin of the blend recipe or what, but it's definitely nothing to do with the source of the leaf.

Many American blends source from all over, not just in the USA.

Furthermore, just because a tobacco is called "Kentucky" or "Virginia", that doesn't mean it was grown in either of those states. Those are marketing terms that represent a particular type of tobacco leaf cured in a particular type of way. Virginia and burley can, and often is grown in other places, but those terms aren't used by tobacco brokers. Brokers sell leaf by type of curing (sun, air, flue, etc)... the marketing terms work because "burley" leaf, based on how it's grown and it's grow conditions, lends itself to air curing while virginia lends itself to flue curing.

There was an article about this recently, an article with Jeremy Reeves of C&D, as well as another article where Shane Ireland interviewed someone on the Stokkebye 4th generation blends that can give you insight into that side of things.

The article where Jeremy mentions some stuff about tobacco brokers and buying leaf:

https://www.smokingpipes.com/smokingpipesblog/single.cfm/post/how-the-environment-impacts-tobacco-growth-cultivation

The Stokkebye interview:

https://www.smokingpipes.com/smokingpipesblog/single.cfm/post/remastering-blends-with-erik-stokkebye-4th-generation

Awesome insight @sardonicus87, thanks for this!

 

[eyjaygaming]

Are there even any farmers left in the US who only grow tobacco?

Right now, there are just shy of 3,000 nationwide, which is down from around 57,000 in 2002 a 95 percent drop.

Out of almost 2,000,000 farms in the US overall

 

[SpuddsBuckley]

Speaking from my experience at Mac Baren: raw leaf is procured from big leaf companies like Universal or Alliance One. Google them. They work with the farmers and cooperatives and offer a wide catalogue of leaf types and qualities. Even though we buy a lot of tobacco from companies like them (last year about 30-40 full 40-feet containers of Brazilian Virginia alone)... Let's say pipe tobacco were to be banned worldwide tomorrow: the leaf industry would not notice, farmers would not notice, leaf prices would not go up. Compared to the volumes that the cigarette industry pulls, it's not even a drop in the bucket.

Big producers like STG or Mac Baren do not rely on US produced leaf, as it's too expensive. That's due to the buyout of tobacco farmers by the US government years ago.

Interesting, will do a little more sleuthing with this info. Thanks @eyjaygaming!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Are there even any farmers left in the US who only grow tobacco?

They do have to rotate crops, but there are still some that it is their main crop. But, Pipe tobacco is not a very large market. If a company stops buying this or that tobacco, the other tobacco industries will gladly take it.

 

[bpinkstaff]

We get what we get that's why i am always trying everything people mention! Taste pallets differ and blends of course do as well. Well, let's face it we all have opinions, and you know what those are like!