Tobacco Shop Bias

[chs110]

I recently have gotten serious about pipe smoking and am loving it! Got a question… Back in the 1980’s when I got into cigars (well before the Cigar Boom), I would visit tobacco shops looking for cigars and information about cigars. Seems to me that the tobacco shops were bias towards pipe smokers and looked down on cigar smokers. Jump ahead to the present and I visit tobacco shops looking for pipe tobacco and information about pipes, but find the bias is now towards cigars! Everyone is smoking cigars and hard to find a dedicated and informed pipe smoker! Don’t get me wrong – I still love cigars, but am developing a serious love of pipes. Anyone else experience this?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

We have both in our neighborhood. We have the Briary, which is more of an artisan pipe shop with a well stocked cigar humidor. This is the most neutral place, because they do cater to both, but with more store space devoted to pipes. And, we have a cigar shop that doesn't mind pipe smokers hanging out. But, they offer nothing in the way of pipe stuff. But, I do pick up a few sticks to buy my right to hang out. It just depends on what sort of shop it is. If the owner is smart, he won't look down his nose at you. Unless he feels like he can jest with you a bit.
And, if cigar smoker go looking down their nose at pipe smokers, well, that would just be silly. Usually, I find cigar guys to be very interested in my pipes. Cigar smokers are just jealous because our hobby requires quite a bit more skill than just firing up a stick. So, they usually watch me closely to try to figure out how to do it. They probably go home and practice in their basements, haha!!

 

[mso489]

Definitely. For most pipe shops, even the ones with good informed pipe men and women on staff, the big revenue

stream is with cigars. The floor is worn with the path to the humidor, and considering the popularity of cigars and

the prices, you can see why. Even my local chain Tinder Box, that used to be a pipe shop with a cigar humidor, is

now a cigar humidor with a pipe section. My local independent has the humidor near the front and the pipes toward

the back, though the pipes are still near the heart of the owner, I feel. Cigars are where the income is, so that's where

the attention goes. I wonder if the internet has made more inroads in the pipe and pipe tobacco market. People can

run into the cigar humidor and do an impulse purchase of three to twenty or thirty dollars, whereas they will go online

to comparison shop for pipes or tins of tobacco that may last for months or years. Anyway, I go with your observation;

it is certainly true from my perspective. When I visited the major pipe and cigar store Nat Sherman in Manhattan, which

has an expansive selection of both pipes/pipe tobacco and cigars, there were about twenty people sitting smoking,

including several women, and I was the only person with a pipe. Quick marketing survey in effect. Also, a number of

shops cater exclusively to cigars, the cigar bar concept, whereas I know of no one with a pipes-only shop.

 

[phred]

Market forces at work - as you pointed out, the pipe-centric stores before the cigar boom went with the market as it was then. Cigars took off, and the market responded. When I went looking for a pipe store back when I started, I'd mostly seen cigar shops and was pleasantly surprised when I came across my local B&M ("local" being a relative term for a half hour drive to the other end of town), which still has a large pipe area in the front, with the walk-in humidor in the back.
And yet, I've only seen 3 of the "regulars" ever smoke a pipe - most of them are cigar guys, so I just keep my mouth shut about politics... :D

 

[waxmojo]

Business is business. I a shop can make money on pipes and pipe tobacco they will have pipe and pipe tobacco inventory. If they can't, they won't. I may be wrong, but seams like the ones who do a lot of pipe business have been around for a while and have a good following.

 

[buroak]

I can only speak from my experience. So, here it goes. The St. Louis area has the John Dengler Tobacconist in St. Charles. That shop has been around since 1917 and is pretty evenly balanced between cigars and pipes. They know pipes and blend at least some of the tobaccos they sell. They are, however, under heavy pressure from vaping and the desire of area smokers for sickeningly sweet aromatics. My biggest concern with that shop is that they will become biased towards the smokers seeking heavily cased tobaccos.
The KC area has several tobacco shops. They have been biased towards cigars, but that is beginning to shift towards a more even balance. One shop I visit carries a wide selection of tobaccos including McClelland, Rattrays, and Peterson tins. The other carries bulk blends from the likes of Sutliff and McClelland. The pipe selection in KC metro shops is still limited, with Peterson and Nording pipes occupying the top shelf of their selections.

 

[darthcider]

My local B&M is The Bear shop in Cardiff.

Its split about half and half with cigars and pipe stuff.

It also has a good range of snuff and other smoking stuff.

Excellent staff too.

 

[brass]

The Tobacco Shop in Annapolis, Md had a very good balance between pipes and cigars. Alas, they closed this summer, having a good run since 1948. Every other tobacco store in the Greater DC-VA-MD area is cigar-centric - at least the ones I know of.
As a matter of fact, I patron mostly online stores because the B&Ms aren't educated in pipe arcana.
Pax

 

[michiganlover]

As already mentioned cigars are the typical tobacco shops bread and butter, it's what pays the rent. Consider an average pipe smoker, I could buy two pouches of Carter Hall ($8 locally) and be good for the month. Even if I bought two tins instead ($15 each locally), I spend about $30. A serious cigar smoker smoking one stick a day could easily spend at least $100 a month at the shop. It takes 3 pipe smokers to spend the equivalent of one cigar smoker. The shops are simply catering to the larger customer base who is spending more money. Can't really blame them for that.

 

[jkrug]

I'm fortunate to have three or four decent tobacconists in the Windsor area. Two of them are pipe and cigar friendly. The one, La Casa De Habana, is currently shifting more into pipes and even planning on getting into pipe repair and restoration. Both of the fellows that work there are very helpful and Jay is very knowledgeable when it comes to pipe tobacco varieties. This is my main place to go locally for all my pipe smoking needs. ::

 

[saltedplug]

I used to be galled by the prices of artisan pipes until I accepted that the pipe maker had a right to live on his income, as artisan pipes take more time to make. I used to be galled by cigar prices until I understood all the steps that are entailed in their production as well as recognizing that most of the workers who supply the labor are by no means paid as well as what I would demand were I to do their jobs.
I don't know enough about the price breakdown of cigars to say anything with authority but imagine that tobacco shops favor cigars because, notwithstanding the real cost of production, which pushes prices up, there is also a higher amount of profit.
Given this, my question is why there aren't more shops like Smokers Haven that survive by selling high-grade pipes, and although smokingpipes sells everything that can generate profit, their focus remains high-grades. I would think that when either shop sells a pipe for $700.00, they make a good profit.
I've thought a lot about how smokingpipes has achieved profitability, and more profitability, and I think they do it through the way that they present their pipes and by promoting the high-grade culture. Teaching pipe appreciation goes hand in hand with sales, and no one else has pictures that put the pipe in your hands as beautifully and effectively as theirs. Their pipe descriptions also teach and sell, and the amount of information about the carvers whose work they sell and their influences is considerable. It's as if having a beautiful Chinese vase from a dynasty noted for its artistic merit, a high-grade, they teach you how to appreciate it, knowing that such appreciation will help sell you the pipe today or in the future. Maxim at pipes2smoke and Al Pascia do the same things, but smokingpipes has taken this to such an extent that it is enveloping.
I think the money can be made in cigars or high-grades but that few pipe shops understand what it takes to make money with pipes. A tobacco shop owner said that high-grades "just sit." Sure, if a guy has to choose between a Peterson for $100.00 and a Radice for $350.00, he will elect to spend less; but, if he loves smoking pipes and knows why the Radice is better, he'll start saving.

 

[freakiefrog]

My local shop has both. Not they are a Pipe shop with a cigar humidor but that doesn't mean that they snub either or in fact we encourage cigar smokers to sit around in the lounge with us pipe guys and burn a stick.
I have more seen cigar shop being myopic,

 

[warren]

A couple of years ago I was in the Fox store in London. Not one of the employees present at the time was a pipe smoker, each of the young gentlemen was knowledgeable in cigars though. Not a store for the novice pipe buyer, that day. It was well stocked with pipes and blends, so I was a happy camper.
I was staying in a hotel a block away and visited the store a couple of times as there was a small museum like area dedicated to Sir Winston I enjoyed. The emphasis was always cigars, but a knowledgeable pipe smoker could find what he needed.

 

[shaintiques]

I run a pipe club in West Georgia and we were meeting twice a month at two different locations. One is a couple blocks from my house. The other is about a 20 minute drive. The one closer to me have a nice shop but cater more to cigar smokers. I wrote a letter to them expressing some concerns and thought it would be good to include it here. I took out names.
Hey Guys,
First I want to say thanks for letting us meet in your shop over the last few years. It is nice to have a local place to come hang out and I appreciate all of the samples that we were given as well. That being said the club is going to be taking a break from meeting in (town). There are a few reasons and I feel that I should share them so as to give you feedback and help you make your store the best it can be.
The main reason that our attendance died off. We didn't feel that you wanted our business. You gave us samples to try and work through which we did, but then when we picked 3 and asked you to order them, you never did. I would come in month after month with still no new product in. It was the same way with the tins of tobacco. It took over a year to get any in and then when you did the prices were too high even for a B&M. For example charging $17 for a tin of Nording Labrador. Every other B&M sells it for $12-13. I asked about this and was told that was the lowest you could go.
I get it, you are a cigar store, it is after all (cigar store name), but we aren't just looking for a place to meet. We are looking for an experience and one where we feel like an important part of your clientele. Your staff have always been courteous to us and I have never felt unwelcome, but when it takes a year or more to order a few bulks we feel that there is a disconnect. We also meet at the (other B&M) and their customer service has been amazing. After our first meeting there the owner asked me if he could order some tobaccos we would be interested in purchasing. I gave him a list of 5 different tinned blends. In 2 days he had 4 tins of each of the 5 blends on the shelves. Same with bulks we have asked for. I tell you this not to throw dirt in your eye, but challenge you to make your B&M the best it can be not just for cigar smokers. In my experience most Cigar B&Ms are mostly the same. They have a few bulks, a few pipes, and maybe a tin or two grossly over priced. They undervalue the pipe smokers business because it doesn't generate the kind of capital that cigar smokers do, but often that is because they don't have the product on hand to generate the capital. When they do have quality products on hand reasonably priced guys will drive from all over to get them.
You need to ask yourself what do we have to attract these pipe smokers. In the world of the internet where I can order a tin of anything and have it shipped to my house in 2 days, why should I visit your shop? I personally would rather support the B&M and pay a little more than online pricing and in my experience that is how most smokers feel, it is imperative to support the local B&Ms, but you have to have things that we want to buy if we are going to support you. The pipe smoker is evolving from the generation of our grandfather. There are many new young smokers out there and where our grandfathers smoked Prince Albert and Rum and Maple, the modern smoker on the whole wants higher quality products such as Flake tobaccos and Englishes.
I expect that you will see me in the shop from time to time as I live very close to the shop and I like the guys, but pipe club won't be meeting there at least for the foreseeable future. That could change of course but only if you want them to.
Again thanks for letting us meet there, I do want your business to flourish and tried my best to help you with that on my end. I'm still here to help if anyone needs anything.

 

[shaintiques]

The other shop where we meet have gone out of their way to cater to us. They will stock any tobacco that we want, they have a decent selection of new pipes, and now they are carrying a nice selection of estate pipes, bags, and racks. And their prices are very reasonable.

 

[natibo]

The owner of my B&M stated that the cigar guys will come in and spend $25-$40 bucks then come back the next day and do the same. A pipe smoker will come in and spend $10 and be good for the week.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

+1 natibo
At my favorite hang out, I've never heard a cigar guy quibble about a $6 to $12 cigar, and they come in day and after day. But, guys will come in and see a $15 tin that they can get for $10 online, and they become total jackasses. It's a good thing that there are a few of us with class keeping the place open. Those price jerks are just an embarrassment to the rest of us.

 

[shaintiques]

That's true, but what I have found is that if you don't have the product you can't sell any. There are shops that cater to pipe smokers and guys drive from all over especially to buy tins. So your profitability goes up, but you have to have the product before you can sell it..
That was what I heard from the above mentioned shop in the beginning. We just don't sell a lot of pipes or pipe tobacco. But all they had in were a few bulks and some cheap baskets. I persuaded them to carry some tins and to get in some Aldo Velanis and Petersons. They sold like hot cakes, but when it came time to restock it would take them months. The profitability is there if you have good business practices and restock your shelves with some products guys actually want to buy.
Second example. The other shop asked us for some blends we wanted. I recommended an Altadis Aro Bulk, Queen Anne's Revenge. They started selling it in December. They have already sold 5 lbs of it. And that is just one of the blends or tins I recommended. Cigars are still more profitable, but there is profit to be made from pipe smokers and to not capitalize on it is foolish.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

I just wish Amazon would sell tobacco (ducks and runs for cover).

 

[warren]

cosmic: Hard to blame a guy for wanting to stretch a dollar. I know it's frustrating, been there and done that, but most customers have little knowledge about the costs of a storefront, they are only interested in their cost. If I can save 50% on a purchase I'd have to step back and factor in a couple aspects, shipping costs and convenience, before shelling out the extra $5.00.
I have the income that allows me to consider supporting local when buying. Many people do not enjoy a lot of disposable income. They have to pinch pennies so as to enjoy the luxury of a pipe. I'm never embarrassed for a person who keeps a close watch on the old wallet. When I worked retail I had the ability to sell at a loss now and then in order to demonstrate to the customer the store's interest in having their business. Often times, I would gain a new customer for the store once they realized the convenience of shopping locally might out weigh a bit of added cost.