To Pass, or Not to Pass.. A Nicotine Test

[pipesticks]

Is Nicotine itself carginogenic, or otherwise harmful?

Nicotine constricts blood vessels, increases heart rate and blood pressure and can induce abnormal heart rhythms. So, folks with cardiovascular disease such as high blood pressure are more at risk. There is insufficient research that proves nicotine itself is a carcinogen. The cancer risk is primarily from the byproducts of tobacco combustion.
There is a lot of info out there and I'm only scratching the surface. You can read plenty more on wikipedia for starters...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine

 

[warren]

I've got to respond.
Ethics (moral principles) have nothing to do with "just following orders." It's really very simple, it's the difference between right and wrong. "Blind obedience" has nothing to do with ethics.
You are making a distinction without a difference with regard to a bowl or a "40-pack a day smoker (That's 800 cigarettes a day!). The insurance company is looking at those who take unnecessary risks and those who have not demonstrated such behavior. Smoking is considered risky behavior. To them risky behavior is ... well, risky behavior, hence ... the higher rates. They need not make a distinction as some smokers like to do. They are simply selling a product and companies, as well as individuals, can buy it or not. Unions and companies determine the insurance products for employees. If employees are unhappy with the product offered or the labor agreement they can move on or, if represented, have their union negotiate a new contract or "side letter" more to their liking. That is, if they can muster the support for such among the members.

 

[tuold]

When an insurance company makes the assumption that pipe smokers are going to cost them an extra hundred bucks a month, I'd say they are the one with the ethics problem. Judging from the number of motorcycle riders in the rehab center where I work, I think motor cycle riders should pay a hundred bucks more. My personal feeling is that insurance is supposed to a pool of high and low risk, young and old, skydivers and couch potatoes. I sort of get perturbed when insurance premiums are used for social engineering, especially when it's mandated.

 

[shanegreen]

interesting debate gentlemen. I see a few angles here. I am curious why a doctor is asking us about the science of nicotine staying in the system?
"First off, and this may be gloom and doom but I think not, a saliva test captures genetic personally identifiable information."
This is true and you made several good points filmshooter. To get a dna test all you have to do it spit, from what I know. People pay to get this done to get a small amount of info about themselves, which some will say is in some cases is proven false as to what they were given, but not the entire info that the people you gave the sample to has. Now, to say that we have privacy in this day and age is deluded. Electric tooth brushes with smart technology is collecting data and sending it to the company. Other insurance companies are offering tracking devices to volunteers to get a discount, at least for now. But how cheap will it be in the future that even though you have been able to speed and not get caught, your company has all the data to raise your rate even though an officer of the law never gave you a ticket?
"You learn a lot about the members just reading the threads."
From what I can see and learned about Warren in threads is a call it like he sees it kind of guy. I can respect that. He offered an objective, and didn't pussy dance around with it. I cannot say I have agreed with everything anyone I have ever met in my life has to say 100 percent other than myself. Sometimes we need things given to us harshly. He gave the doctor another objective by which to view himself in asking for help to make a decision.
As for what I would I do? First off, I wouldn't volunteer my bodily anything and enjoy my pipe and cigars. A month is a long time. I might just get the notion to quit completely or something by the end of the thirty days if I made it that far resisting my favorite smokey pleasures from pipes and cigars. No discount is worth peace of mind.

 

[madox07]

warren please don't take this the wrong way, but not all people have the luxury of judging their personal ethical system in terms of black and white. Try, for example, to imagine what it means to live in a poor country defined by corruption, systemic theft and useless bureaucracy. A place where the system's declared purpose is to offer you social protection and watch for your well being, but in fact it's true preoccupation is to make the bellies of those in charge even larger at your expense. All of a sudden things are no longer black and white, all of sudden the idea of cheating the system becomes acceptable, the idea of a good system becomes utopic, desirable but intangible, while your major concern is surviving the very system you as a voter put in place, and which has turned into a vampire sucking the very life out of you and your loved ones by means of deficit in the medical/educational/judiciary/etc. systems. One may be tempted to say that if people become so cynical, they will never manage to impose a change upon the system and turn things for the better. Sure, in theory that may be sound ... but try living it, and you will be amazed to see how many nuances gray can have.

 

[zeedoctorae]

I just wanted to take this moment to thank you all for your input. It has been very helpful. By the way, the test is a saliva test that gives a positive or negative result on the spot, and then is thrown away. So, there is no data collection.
-The Doctor.... Who?

 

[mawnansmiff]

"Electric tooth brushes with smart technology is collecting data and sending it to the company."
I do hope you jest here Shane 8O
Regards,
Jay.

 

[davek]

Three men were standing in line to get into heaven. Saint Peter asks them why they should get in.
The first man says, "I'm a Doctor. I've helped people live longer and healthier lives." Saint Peter says, "Come on in.".
The second man says, "I'm a Dentist. I've worked hard to ensure oral hygiene and thus helped people live longer, healthier lives." Saint Peter says, "Come on in.".
The third man says, "I'm a claims agent for a health insurance company and I've kept costs down for my company." Saint Peter says, "Come on in.".
"But there's a three day limit on your stay.".

 

[ssjones]

A good time to close this one.