Time to Taste the Benefits of Cellaring?

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OzPiper

Lifer
Nov 30, 2020
5,851
31,139
71
Sydney, Australia
So, wine guys, how DOES old wine react to being opened and not finished immediately?

What has been widely reported here, and I have experienced in my hands, is the rapid deterioration of old tobacco once disturbed: I once saw here about a sale of SG Balkan Flake with I think at the time 15 years of age on it. The flakes were almost black in colour, rubbery and had a very rich and very complex savoury smell. I had a couple of bowls of it and recall it's among the best thing I've ever smoked in 10+ years of pipe smoking. What I did was jar it immediately to "save for a good moment", well after some months the moment wasn't coming so I smoked some more. Pure disappointment, the taste was almost gone, flat, a faint idea of Latakia and not much else.
Disclaimer: I have only returned to smoking pipes in the past 4 years or so.
I have very limited experience in aging tobacco or smoking well-aged tobacco.
I have a lot of experience drinking well-aged wine.
I do not for a moment suggest that what happens in wine is the same as in tobacco,

Some years ago a very generous friend opened a bottle of 1931 Quinta do Noval Nacional - one of THE ports of the century.
The bottle was decanted at the beginning of the dinner and pronounced to be exceptional.
By the time it was served with the cheese course it had deteriorated significantly.
Everyone kindly declared it to be “still drinkable”.
It was a huge letdown

Lesson learned: If something tastes wonderful, don’t wait for it to become
“wonderfuller”.
You may well be disillusioned and disappointed
 

TheWhale13

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 12, 2021
803
3,417
Sweden
Instead of going to bed I decided to ask ChatGPT, here's what it said to the question "what chemical reactions happen in tobacco leaf fermentation":

  1. Hydrolysis: The breakdown of complex organic compounds into simpler ones by adding water molecules. During fermentation, hydrolysis of the tobacco leaves results in the breakdown of starches and other complex carbohydrates into simple sugars.
  2. Oxidation: The process by which oxygen molecules are added to organic compounds. In tobacco fermentation, oxidation occurs due to the exposure of tobacco leaves to air. This process results in the development of the characteristic aroma and flavor of tobacco.
  3. Reduction: The process by which electrons are added to organic compounds. Reduction occurs during fermentation when bacteria and other microorganisms consume oxygen and produce carbon dioxide and other byproducts.
  4. Esterification: The reaction between an alcohol and a carboxylic acid to produce an ester. During tobacco fermentation, esterification occurs as a result of the interaction between alcohols and carboxylic acids present in the tobacco leaves.
  5. Pyrolysis: The breakdown of organic compounds by heat. During tobacco fermentation, pyrolysis occurs due to the high temperatures generated by the bacterial activity, which results in the breakdown of organic compounds and the release of volatile compounds responsible for the characteristic aroma and flavor of tobacco.

And this is what it said about chemical reactions occurring in wine aging:

  1. Oxidation: Oxygen reacts with various organic compounds in wine, such as ethanol and phenolic compounds, resulting in the development of new aroma and flavor compounds. Controlled levels of oxidation are important to the aging process and can be influenced by factors such as oxygen permeability of the wine bottle closure and the storage temperature.
  2. Reduction: The opposite of oxidation, reduction is the removal of oxygen atoms from organic compounds. This process can contribute to the development of desirable aroma and flavor compounds, such as those associated with aging in oak barrels.
  3. Hydrolysis: The breakdown of chemical compounds in the presence of water. During wine aging, hydrolysis of the glycosides that are present in grape juice or wine can release aroma and flavor compounds, including terpenes and other aromatic compounds.
  4. Esterification: The reaction between an alcohol and a carboxylic acid to produce an ester. During wine aging, esterification occurs as a result of the interaction between alcohols and acids present in the wine, producing compounds such as ethyl acetate and isoamyl acetate.
  5. Polymerization: The combination of small molecules into larger ones. During wine aging, tannins can undergo polymerization, resulting in the development of a smoother texture and more complex aroma and flavor profiles.
  6. Maillard reaction: The reaction between amino acids and reducing sugars, which can lead to the development of brown color and flavor compounds. This reaction is more common in fortified wines, such as sherry, where it contributes to the development of nutty and caramelized flavors.

And this is what it said about pipe tobacco aging:

When pipe tobacco ages, a variety of chemical and physical changes occur that can alter its aroma, flavor, and smoking characteristics. The aging process can also help to reduce harshness and bitterness in the tobacco, resulting in a smoother smoking experience. Some of the key changes that occur during pipe tobacco aging include:

  1. Oxidation: Over time, the organic compounds in the tobacco are exposed to oxygen, which can lead to the development of new flavor and aroma compounds. Controlled levels of oxidation can help to enhance the tobacco's flavor, while excessive oxidation can cause the tobacco to become stale.
  2. Fermentation: Like tobacco used for cigars, pipe tobacco is often fermented during the aging process. This process helps to break down complex organic compounds and create new flavor and aroma compounds. Controlled levels of fermentation can help to enhance the tobacco's flavor and aroma, while excessive fermentation can lead to the development of off-flavors.
  3. Maillard reaction: This is a chemical reaction between amino acids and reducing sugars, which can create new flavor and aroma compounds. This reaction is more common in darker, sweeter tobacco blends and can lead to the development of notes of caramel, chocolate, or coffee.
  4. Evaporation: Over time, some of the volatile compounds in the tobacco can evaporate, which can lead to a more concentrated flavor and aroma. However, excessive evaporation can cause the tobacco to become dry and harsh.
  5. Polymerization: The combination of small molecules into larger ones. During aging, tobacco leaves can undergo polymerization, resulting in a smoother smoking experience and more complex flavor and aroma profiles.
Overall, the aging process for pipe tobacco is influenced by a range of factors, including the type of tobacco used, the storage conditions, and the length of time the tobacco is aged. By taking care to properly store and age their pipe tobacco, smokers can enhance its flavor and aroma and enjoy a smoother smoking experience.

What I bolded are the mentions of the Maillard reaction, a term very well-known to foodies and beloved the world over by its impact on fried/grilled food!
Considering how the mechanisms of aging seems to be similar in wine and tobacco, there probably are some conclusions to draw and some ideas to be had by looking at wine aging and scientific reports on aging. That is if they even are similar enough to be compared. Some aging mechanisms are probably shared by all plant material, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that the end result is going to be similar?
 
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karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,369
9,079
Basel, Switzerland
Considering how the mechanisms of aging seems to be similar in wine and tobacco, there probably are some conclusions to draw and some ideas to be had by looking at wine aging and scientific reports on aging. That is if they even are similar enough to be compared. Some aging mechanisms are probably shared by all plant material, but that doesn't neccesarily mean that the end result is going to be similar?
The processes are similar in the sense it is the same classes of reactions occurring, but on totally different substrates. I think the best we can get is ballpark assumptions/understanding of what’s going on by comparing with wine. Spirits are another thing totally, they age by interacting with wood, no aging happens once bottled.

I think wines are filtered to get rid of all yeast, but beer and mead may not be. I know for a fact that yeast can reactivate by the addition of sugar, that’s how you get carbonation, I know a lot less about beer and wine brewing though.
 
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karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,369
9,079
Basel, Switzerland
Disclaimer: I have only returned to smoking pipes in the past 4 years or so.
I have very limited experience in aging tobacco or smoking well-aged tobacco.
I have a lot of experience drinking well-aged wine.
I do not for a moment suggest that what happens in wine is the same as in tobacco,

Some years ago a very generous friend opened a bottle of 1931 Quinta do Noval Nacional - one of THE ports of the century.
The bottle was decanted at the beginning of the dinner and pronounced to be exceptional.
By the time it was served with the cheese course it had deteriorated significantly.
Everyone kindly declared it to be “still drinkable”.
It was a huge letdown

Lesson learned: If something tastes wonderful, don’t wait for it to become
“wonderfuller”.
You may well be disillusioned and disappointed
Wow, good story though. Pity!

All I know about wine is reading Roald Dahl’s Taste and The Buttler short stories ;)
 
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vosBghos

Lifer
May 7, 2022
1,540
3,392
Idaho
A good way to see the benefits of aging is to buy an aged tin of one of your favorite tobaccos a lot of consignment tobaccos have a minimum of five years I have done this with Red Virginia and it has become a whole new animal after even 5 years. There is a website The Pipe Tool - The Perfect Tool for the Discerning Pipe Enthusiast - https://www.thepipetool.com/view/index.php where you can keep track of your cellar. There are probably better ones but this one works on my mac. As long as you fill out when you purchased the tobacco the production date and when you cellared it , it keeps track of how long so I can count the days to my favorite blends when they are approaching 5,10,15,20 years. Pretty cool , enjoy the ride.